While most NA teams will be making multiple super teams, due to the large number of spanish orgs, these spanish orgs will try to sign a really good core of players, while keeping some players like fitinho, mixwell for the spanish viewerbase. This may completely ruin EMEA, as this is essentially refusing to not make a super team, holding the players captive in a mediocre team and overall heavily reducing the star player pool although this region has the highest number of uncontested slots, of 10 from which there is no division like brazil, NA or Korea, japan and sea.
0
My concern about EMEA franchise teams
posted in
General Discussion
Comments:
Threaded
Linear
Olofboost [#3]Fitinho isn't even bad lol
And I'm sure mixwell is at least top-50 EMEA player, so he deserves franchise (10 teams, 5 players in each team, 50 total)
I don't understand what this complaint is about
Thanks, I don’t think anyone claims Mixwell should be in a super team but he is def good enough for some lower team, just hoping is not KOI and they are the ones to actually make a super team
INVICIUS [#2]its competitve ruling they need to keep some local players in their team to keep competing
No that’s not it
INVICIUS [#2]its competitve ruling they need to keep some local players in their team to keep competing
No lol. They can choose from there entire league’s territory.
Mortadelo [#4]Ah yes, Giants having Fitinho and KOI having Kolda is gonna ruin the whole region? Is that what you’re trying to say?
Definitely not koldamenta, but fitinho for sure. Imagine a team with fitinho with redgar, sayf leo trexx. This essentially removes the possibility of redgar being in liquid, leo being in fnatic and sayf in another team. Overall heavily reduces how strong another team can be. Ofc this can easily be fixed with one strong addition.
Olofboost [#3]Fitinho isn't even bad lol
And I'm sure mixwell is at least top-50 EMEA player, so he deserves franchise (10 teams, 5 players in each team, 50 total)
I don't understand what this complaint is about
This is not a complaint, a concern of what could happen. Ofc nothing happened yet.
BoF7ooM [#9]This is not a complaint, a concern of what could happen. Ofc nothing happened yet.
It's not as bad as NA
We have 10 teams
NA has 5 teams (should've had 6, but Carlos said no)
We can allow some not-so-good players in our league
NA can't, they literally only have 25 players (assuming that BR and LATAM won't go for NA talent)
NA keeping Shahzam will hurt their scene more than EU keeping mixwell or whoever else
"NA will create super teams"
I think too many NA teams will remain loyal to their current roster instead of COMPLETELY re-building their roster like they should. A team of (Yay/Cryo), (Zekken/Zellsis), (Marved/Supamen), (Trent/Crashies), (FNS/Dephh/Zander) could easily be built and sounds great on paper.
Olofboost [#10]It's not as bad as NA
We have 10 teams
NA has 5 teams (should've had 6, but Carlos said no)We can allow some not-so-good players in our league
NA can't, they literally only have 25 players (assuming that BR and LATAM won't go for NA talent)
NA keeping Shahzam will hurt their scene more than EU keeping mixwell or whoever else
Actually it was still gonna be 5 teams, EG was who got in place of G2 but yeah
Mortadelo [#12]Actually it was still gonna be 5 teams, EG was who got in place of G2 but yeah
Wow, I thought it was either Mibr or Leviatan
That's crazy, NA was fucked even before the incident
Olofboost [#10]It's not as bad as NA
We have 10 teams
NA has 5 teams (should've had 6, but Carlos said no)We can allow some not-so-good players in our league
NA can't, they literally only have 25 players (assuming that BR and LATAM won't go for NA talent)
NA keeping Shahzam will hurt their scene more than EU keeping mixwell or whoever else
yeah its true, lets hope for the best so that we can have atleast 2 super teams and 2 to 3 others that has the capability to win against all international competition and maybe even win tournies. That's the least I can ask from a 10 team region.
Olofboost [#13]Wow, I thought it was either Mibr or Leviatan
That's crazy, NA was fucked even before the incident
Omg G2 in NA with two imports and them stuck with 4 spots, fuckkk that would have been hilarious
BoF7ooM [#8]Definitely not koldamenta, but fitinho for sure. Imagine a team with fitinho with redgar, sayf leo trexx. This essentially removes the possibility of redgar being in liquid, leo being in fnatic and sayf in another team. Overall heavily reduces how strong another team can be. Ofc this can easily be fixed with one strong addition.
You are either braindead or haven’t followed tier 2 EU if you think Fitinho is bad.
Mortadelo [#15]Omg G2 in NA with two imports and them stuck with 4 spots, fuckkk that would have been hilarious
Rumours were that g2 was going to sign the whole xset roster if they made it into NA.
unknown_trash [#17]Rumours were that g2 was going to sign the whole xset roster if they made it into NA.
Ayrin is really not worth to sign
Mortadelo [#5]Thanks, I don’t think anyone claims Mixwell should be in a super team but he is def good enough for some lower team, just hoping is not KOI and they are the ones to actually make a super team
yep, its not like NA where is space for only 25 players. You need to fill out 50 players in emea and theres plenty space for that. so the roster shuffle as a whole in EMEA won't be as hectic as na
BoF7ooM [#8]Definitely not koldamenta, but fitinho for sure. Imagine a team with fitinho with redgar, sayf leo trexx. This essentially removes the possibility of redgar being in liquid, leo being in fnatic and sayf in another team. Overall heavily reduces how strong another team can be. Ofc this can easily be fixed with one strong addition.
Well, Fiti is proven in tier 1 and is definitely better than Russ for example and look how good Guild was
Olofboost [#18]Ayrin is really not worth to sign
im just saying if g2 made franchising they would have signed all of xset as a 5 +coach. i didnt say it was the right move, or whether they should switch players.
unknown_trash [#17]Rumours were that g2 was going to sign the whole xset roster if they made it into NA.
Ik, it’s just a hypothetical situation, it would have been so funny
Nitocrys [#23]Super teams tend to have shit results historically, both in Esports and in traditional sports
Ask Brazilians tho
Victorie [#16]You are either braindead or haven’t followed tier 2 EU if you think Fitinho is bad.
mid asf still. In franchised league international competition, he will be up against the likes of yay, buzz, stax, aspas, heat, meteor, forsaken, jingg.
patuj [#29]True. Thinking same.
most of these guys dont understand, having 2 or 3 superteams is much better than having 7 average teams. NA is not fuckedm out of the 5 teams only clown org is sentinels. Atleast 2 really insane LOUD and DRX level teams are gonna come out of that region. A superteam like DRX or LOUD is capable of beating teams like fnatic and liquid 7/10 times, but due to good firepower and anti strat they may win some. The only team that even comes close to being a super team in EMEA this year was FPX, and even they fell short this year beaten by DRX two times in 2-0. Its honestly the most difficult thing to do, that is trying to go far in the tournament after you have won a championship.
BoF7ooM [#30]most of these guys dont understand, having 2 or 3 superteams is much better than having 7 average teams. NA is not fuckedm out of the 5 teams only clown org is sentinels. Atleast 2 really insane LOUD and DRX level teams are gonna come out of that region. A superteam like DRX or LOUD is capable of beating teams like fnatic and liquid 7/10 times, but due to good firepower and anti strat they may win some. The only team that even comes close to being a super team in EMEA this year was FPX, and even they fell short this year beaten by DRX two times in 2-0. Its honestly the most difficult thing to do, that is trying to go far in the tournament after you have won a championship.
Well liquid was hoping that they could win without an igl and in Fnc's case they fell short sometimes cuz of Enzo, Boaster and mistic. With so many f/a I think we'll surely see them get better.
BoF7ooM [#27]mid asf still. In franchised league international competition, he will be up against the likes of yay, buzz, stax, aspas, heat, meteor, forsaken, jingg.
So what ur saying is that t2 players should stay in t2 forever right? XD
Victorie [#16]You are either braindead or haven’t followed tier 2 EU if you think Fitinho is bad.
Fitinho is doggushittu. Literally mid duelist, d3ffo 2.0
idkbro [#33]u braindead? fitinho is actually insane and t1 proven
No. Stop this bullshit. He can't even carry in a dogshit VRLeague
hekzy [#35]No. Stop this bullshit. He can't even carry in a dogshit VRLeague
he was a top3 player in the best vrl, he is really good and totally deserves a spot in t1
idkbro [#36]he was a top3 player in the best vrl, he is really good and totally deserves a spot in t1
Spanish VRL is not even Top3. France, North, Turkey >>>>>> spain. Even DACH has more success than turkey.
hekzy [#38]Spanish VRL is not even Top3. France, North, Turkey >>>>>> spain. Even DACH has more success than turkey.
Petition for DACH spot
Mortadelo [#12]Actually it was still gonna be 5 teams, EG was who got in place of G2 but yeah
No lol, mibr got in place of g2. People just think eg is undeserving but they were already in regardless
Olofboost [#13]Wow, I thought it was either Mibr or Leviatan
That's crazy, NA was fucked even before the incident
No he's wrong mibr was the one
r0xi3 [#31]Well liquid was hoping that they could win without an igl and in Fnc's case they fell short sometimes cuz of Enzo, Boaster and mistic. With so many f/a I think we'll surely see them get better.
Yeah we talkin bout the rest especially Spain tho
hekzy [#38]Spanish VRL is not even Top3. France, North, Turkey >>>>>> spain. Even DACH has more success than turkey.
delusional
idkbro [#44]delusional
lmfao spanish teams that have ascended to VCT over 2022? ZERO. Number of German teams, TWO. Number of turkish teams, ONE. Number of northern teams in the VCT already, 50% of the league.
Furthermore, number of spanish teams that can beat vitality/mad lions, ZERO.
Edit: And let's be even more precise:
VCT Challengers S2 teams:
4/12 Northern Cores
3/12 CIS Cores
2/12 Eastern Cores
2/12 DACH cores
1/12 Turkish cores
0/12 Spanish cores
You want more reality checks... or you good? Delusional kid.
Edit2:
The only spanish player in the VCT was botwell, worst player in his team, one of the worst in the league as a whole.
hekzy [#45]lmfao spanish teams that have ascended to VCT over 2022? ZERO. Number of German teams, TWO. Number of turkish teams, ONE. Number of northern teams in the VCT already, 50% of the league.
Furthermore, number of spanish teams that can beat vitality/mad lions, ZERO.
Edit: And let's be even more precise:
VCT Challengers S2 teams:
4/12 Northern Cores
3/12 CIS Cores
2/12 Eastern Cores
2/12 DACH cores
1/12 Turkish cores
0/12 Spanish coresYou want more reality checks... or you good? Delusional kid.
Edit2:
The only spanish player in the VCT was botwell, worst player in his team, one of the worst in the league as a whole.
no correlation tho? we are talking about the regional leagues as a whole, not about vct teams or which teams qualified, you are delusional if you think spanish vrl isnt the one with the most depth and overall quality, cant bother argue with a gold noob who knows nothing about the game that thinks fitinho is bad, mixwell is a fucking dog you are right, next time you try to make an argument with your 80iq fnatic supporter brain at least make some sense, cant understand how your small malfunctioning brain thought there was a correlation between what you wrote and the quality of the leagues as a whole lmao
hekzy [#45]lmfao spanish teams that have ascended to VCT over 2022? ZERO. Number of German teams, TWO. Number of turkish teams, ONE. Number of northern teams in the VCT already, 50% of the league.
Furthermore, number of spanish teams that can beat vitality/mad lions, ZERO.
Edit: And let's be even more precise:
VCT Challengers S2 teams:
4/12 Northern Cores
3/12 CIS Cores
2/12 Eastern Cores
2/12 DACH cores
1/12 Turkish cores
0/12 Spanish coresYou want more reality checks... or you good? Delusional kid.
Edit2:
The only spanish player in the VCT was botwell, worst player in his team, one of the worst in the league as a whole.
Tbf koldamenta is a Great player
FoechiGG [#47]Tbf koldamenta is a Great player
it doesnt suit his argument so dont bother, he doesnt even understand the difference between quality of leagues, quality of players from specific country, the fact that a german team doesnt neccesarily make it the league the best one (if this was true as he is suggesting brazil is the best region!) and that vct teams have nothing to do with vrl
Mortadelo [#12]Actually it was still gonna be 5 teams, EG was who got in place of G2 but yeah
we don't really know for sure, but according to dot esports leviatan actually took G2's spot
https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/g2-had-sights-set-on-top-tier-na-valorant-talent-before-carlos-controversy-cost-them-everything
MagnumRaging [#49]we don't really know for sure, but according to dot esports leviatan actually took G2's spot
https://dotesports.com/valorant/news/g2-had-sights-set-on-top-tier-na-valorant-talent-before-carlos-controversy-cost-them-everything
Yeah they also reported NA would have 6-8 spots a couple months ago so I’m sorry I don’t trust them 100%. Don’t get me wrong they do a great job but sometimes they try to be the first ones reporting something and end up missing
I trust this a lot more: https://twitter.com/anonimotum/status/1572315136416776196?cxt=HHwWiIC80aeS_tErAAAA
symbols07 [#41]No lol, mibr got in place of g2. People just think eg is undeserving but they were already in regardless
According to who, source.
It doesn’t even make sense dude, Riot wanted to give 3-2-5 spots cause if they actually wanted to give NA 6 instead of LATAM too, why would they change it last moment giving it to LEV instead of just going for TSM or OPTC or whatever like their “had planned”
INVICIUS [#2]its competitve ruling they need to keep some local players in their team to keep competing
You're not quite right. It's for the entire region, not org's country.
Victorie [#16]You are either braindead or haven’t followed tier 2 EU if you think Fitinho is bad.
Or both
Mortadelo [#51]According to who, source.
It doesn’t even make sense dude, Riot wanted to give 3-2-5 spots cause if they actually wanted to give NA 6 instead of LATAM too, why would they change it last moment giving it to LEV instead of just going for TSM or OPTC or whatever like their “had planned”
tsm and optic examples are bad, but i can understand they should've just given that g2 spot to xset or the guard. but i do think the sources are never wrong. the same sources who leaked every team right, the one who leaked that g2 is out were true. so i am inclined to believe 6 slot leak was true. though yeah it makes no sense, na should've still gotten 6 if g2 missed
symbols07 [#54]tsm and optic examples are bad, but i can understand they should've just given that g2 spot to xset or the guard. but i do think the sources are never wrong. the same sources who leaked every team right, the one who leaked that g2 is out were true. so i am inclined to believe 6 slot leak was true. though yeah it makes no sense, na should've still gotten 6 if g2 missed
Which leak dude, I'm asking for a link, and you're talking like if there weren't tones of people leaking who was in and out. And why are OPTC and TSM examples bad
Mortadelo [#55]Which leak dude, I'm asking for a link, and you're talking like if there weren't tones of people leaking who was in and out. And why are OPTC and TSM examples bad
coz optic was almost never a front runner, and tsm was also not very likely, they both had their issues
symbols07 [#56]coz optic was almost never a front runner, and tsm was also not very likely, they both had their issues
TSM was on every list wdym, they have tones of money and tones of fans wdym. Anyway, I'm trusting anonimotum here cause it's what it makes sense
Mortadelo [#57]TSM was on every list wdym, they have tones of money and tones of fans wdym. Anyway, I'm trusting anonimotum here cause it's what it makes sense
tsm was on many lists, but people always mentioned they might get rejected coz of their shit ceo. so like if they get expected, its expected. if they get rejected, its expected
symbols07 [#58]tsm was on many lists, but people always mentioned they might get rejected coz of their shit ceo. so like if they get expected, its expected. if they get rejected, its expected
Okay my friend, still waiting for the link to see who said it was mibr
idkbro [#46]no correlation tho? we are talking about the regional leagues as a whole, not about vct teams or which teams qualified, you are delusional if you think spanish vrl isnt the one with the most depth and overall quality, cant bother argue with a gold noob who knows nothing about the game that thinks fitinho is bad, mixwell is a fucking dog you are right, next time you try to make an argument with your 80iq fnatic supporter brain at least make some sense, cant understand how your small malfunctioning brain thought there was a correlation between what you wrote and the quality of the leagues as a whole lmao
I just gave you 50 reasons as to why Spanish VRL is one of the weakest. And all you have to say is "you don't understand?"
Cope my friend.
You know why spanish VRL is so weak? Because all those good european players are obligated to carry iberian bots. Because other than koldamenta, there is no good Spanish player in this world. Deal with it.
FoechiGG [#47]Tbf koldamenta is a Great player
Yeah i forgot to mention him but if you see my comment history i always say he is the only elite spanish player.
hekzy [#60]I just gave you 50 reasons as to why Spanish VRL is one of the weakest. And all you have to say is "you don't understand?"
Cope my friend.
You know why spanish VRL is so weak? Because all those good european players are obligated to carry iberian bots. Because other than koldamenta, there is no good Spanish player in this world. Deal with it.
so what? I agree spanish players are bots except fitinho, koldamenta and saiz but that doesnt change the fact the best t2 players are in spanish vrl and it the best overall
"You know why spanish VRL is so weak? Because all those good european players are obligated to carry iberian bots."
Then spanish players are weak not the league, u braindamaged? Also do you have an agenda against spain or what? You seem obsessed, also funny that greek guy is talking when you have no scene in any esport
Mortadelo [#20]Well, Fiti is proven in tier 1 and is definitely better than Russ for example and look how good Guild was
Russ was really good, excellent utility usage and strong support. You can't compare that role to a primary duelist / OP'er.
Not sure I'd pick Fithino as a top 10 EMEA duelist tbh.
INVICIUS [#2]its competitve ruling they need to keep some local players in their team to keep competing
No
idkbro [#62]so what? I agree spanish players are bots except fitinho, koldamenta and saiz but that doesnt change the fact the best t2 players are in spanish vrl and it the best overall
"You know why spanish VRL is so weak? Because all those good european players are obligated to carry iberian bots."
Then spanish players are weak not the league, u braindamaged? Also do you have an agenda against spain or what? You seem obsessed, also funny that greek guy is talking when you have no scene in any esport
which are those best tier2 pros? Give me names please. Other than Wolfen (who is severely unproven), there's nobody else.
You don't have Vitality or Mad Lions level rosters. You don't have BIG level rosters. You don't have Fnatic/Liquid/G2/Guild/whatever other northern roster there is. You don't have Acend/OGLU level rosters. You don't have NaVi/M3C level rosters. You don't have SMB/FUT/BBL level rosters.
If you can't form a single roster that can compete with these teams, but all the other leagues actually can, then what does that say about Spanish VRL? It means there aren't good enough players to form good enough teams. Numbers speak for themselves, I won't elaborate any further.
ninz [#63]Russ was really good, excellent utility usage and strong support. You can't compare that role to a primary duelist / OP'er.
Not sure I'd pick Fithino as a top 10 EMEA duelist tbh.
Oh I’m sure, he is definitely not too 10 duelist, but he is close by, and keeping with my analogy so did Russ, not a top 10 EMEA support player imo, but close
Mortadelo [#67]Oh I’m sure, he is definitely not too 10 duelist, but he is close by, and keeping with my analogy so did Russ, not a top 10 EMEA support player imo, but close
But the stakes are so high now, you don't want to be among the bottom teams in partnership. And there will never be an opportunity like this again to strengthen a roster, it's going to decide who will be top and bottom for a long time in EMEA.
Taking a chance on someone not quite good enough simply because of nationality is a huge risk.
ninz [#68]But the stakes are so high now, you don't want to be among the bottom teams in partnership. And there will never be an opportunity like this again to strengthen a roster, it's going to decide who will be top and bottom for a long time in EMEA.
Taking a chance on someone not quite good enough simply because of nationality is a huge risk.
The problem is I don't think they consider a risk, they consider fiti a diamond
Mortadelo [#69]The problem is I don't think they consider a risk, they consider fiti a diamond
And that is exactly why people are worried. The org gm's who have proven an inability to build a winning roster are now in charge of building a good partnership roster. Giants have put a lot of time and effort into valorant, and have been huge failures. Why should they succeed now?
ninz [#70]And that is exactly why people are worried. The org gm's who have proven an inability to build a winning roster are now in charge of building a good partnership roster. Giants have put a lot of time and effort into valorant, and have been huge failures. Why should they succeed now?
Wdym big failures? Giants has done great so far dude, what roster has been a failure? I actually think the opposite, I think they have great judgement and I feel like they see something in him we don't yet
Mortadelo [#71]Wdym big failures? Giants has done great so far dude, what roster has been a failure? I actually think the opposite, I think they have great judgement and I feel like they see something in him we don't yet
They have consistently performed like a tier 2 team. Never managing to really make a splash, except for a very short period with one roster, and when they got figured out, they got smashed again. For an org that should be top 10 EU they have consistently underperformed.
ninz [#72]They have consistently performed like a tier 2 team. Never managing to really make a splash, except for a very short period with one roster, and when they got figured out, they got smashed again. For an org that should be top 10 EU they have consistently underperformed.
They were good during ignition series stuff but we're not gonna count it. Then they signed Prodigy with Happy, Pipson, hoody, delezyh and Luzuh then got Fiti, Boo, Molsi, Meddo davidp, and the rosters shuffled creating a team that had great success in EMEA, doing great in RedBull and almost qualifying for a masters (1 game away).
Lost the players to G2 and then signed a tier 2 roster that did great too tbh, like they lost in Playoffs of VRL because russ wasn't able to make it but they were definitely contenders.
What I'm trying to say is how many great unknown players has Giants scouted? Hoody, Boo, Molsi, Fiti, Monster, Meddo (trusted him after being dropped from FPX and actually there was a moment where giants was better than FPX), Davidp (Trusted him after doing horrible with Excel and doing great)
I definitely wouldn't say all they have had have been failures
Mortadelo [#50]Yeah they also reported NA would have 6-8 spots a couple months ago so I’m sorry I don’t trust them 100%. Don’t get me wrong they do a great job but sometimes they try to be the first ones reporting something and end up missing
I trust this a lot more: https://twitter.com/anonimotum/status/1572315136416776196?cxt=HHwWiIC80aeS_tErAAAA
fair enough. ig we'll never know for sure unless someone actually leaks it (like an org or riot employee)
MagnumRaging [#74]fair enough. ig we'll never know for sure unless someone actually leaks it (like an org or riot employee)
Yup, it’s never 100%, still people has to learn to understand which sources are more accurate and which are not. Also very important to notice the difference in the wording, is not the same when a reporter says someone is set to sign, and when he says they’ve been trying out with someone, big difference
BoF7ooM [#76]Bump! This is exactly what is happening.
It's nothing like what it's happening tf u mean
Mortadelo [#77]It's nothing like what it's happening tf u mean
BBL, KOI, TH were bound to get slapped by NA. Its not even worth coping. All we can do is hope for FNC to not choke against SEN, or its gonna look hella grim lmfao. They really needed 1 more of them in Alpha bracket.
BoF7ooM [#78]BBL, KOI, TH were bound to get slapped by NA. Its not even worth coping. All we can do is hope for FNC to not choke against SEN, or its gonna look hella grim lmfao. They really needed 1 more of them in Alpha bracket.
Then why tf you bumping this thread where you say the problem of EMEA is KOI TH and Gia? KOI face NRG wtf you wanted them to do? Giants played great and how tf is Mixwell the issue of TH? BBL was better than expected and didn't even get slapped by NA, dude tf are you even saying
Discord