please stop saying CS should have won esports award when that game is only competitive in EU.
edit yall are speaking like EU and NA are the only regions of the world.
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CS = EU game , VAL = worldwide game
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highest viewership - LOL ( they take Worlds 2023 into consideration)
biggest number of tier 1 events - CS
more underdog stories - CS
names - LoL (Faker alone clears valorant and cs without s1mple)
location diversity - CS with Dallas Chengdu Belgrade Cologne Katowice Shanghai Rio Copenhagen and valorant with madrid shanghai seoul
most hours viewed - pretty sure it's CS
it just don't make sense for valorant to be above both of them
Stop bringing Cheater Strike into consideration with all those shitty stats. Bro put LoL in there so people wouldn't say he's biased against CS lmao.
Valorant is a worldwide game and increased viewership tenfold this year. And in a few years LoL won't even be an eSport. It was already in talks of being in the Olympics. League is real sport.
That's why LoL didn't win and Valorant did. And Cheater Shit? No one outside Shitmea plays that. Why would that win any awards
Most cs fans dont even know the esprots awards exists. It's voted by the public but there is an obvious bias with the sample as valorant fans are more into the twitch/twitter scene and their favorite creators probably told them to vote at the esports award. I myself didn't even know voting was open until a valorsnt pro on Twitter posted about.
100%. The top 2 esports are CS and Valorant without a doubt whether it be player base, viewership, etc. The two most popular players are s1mple and Faker without a doubt. I remember when yay won player of the year over s1mple in 2022 it made no sense to me. Comparing the numbers side by side its not a comparison. Yes CS has more events but just other aspects alone with viewership and memorable games are another level. Just for whatever reason the people who run the game awards have a bias towards Valorant.
I think the league holds Valorant back and limited events. 3 big events a year is pretty bogus followed with 6 months off. CS like I said in my other comment is ran like an actual sport where their schedules reflect that as well. Not to mention just overall production, casting, observing, etc. in CS is just another level. Hard to beat.
CS is only competitive in EU because other regions gave up. It's still by every metric a bigger game and esport than Val.
Also I'd say it's more competitive than Val considering no teams in Val can manage consistency anywhere close to LoL, CS or even Overwatch teams. The game is still very swingy and random in results compared to other eSports imo.
It's honestly why I found Fnatic last year crazy, they were consistently winning but whenever you watched there was still so much randomness that they were edging into their favour.
It was impressive to me in the same way someone consistently winning games of Uno would be, the game inherently has randomness but you can edge the odds into your favour with smart play, but you can never be certain.
I agree. Consistency in Valorant will always be an issue whether it be team or individual. The skill gap is overall lower in Valorant and not to mention too much randomness in the game which makes consistency an issue. Aspas has been really the only player to actually establish s1mple or zywoo status in the game. The man is a consistent beast. Can't even really point a finger at the most consistent team, it's probably been Fnatic overall.
I also think how far spread out events are from each other doesn't help as well.
I think people place a disproportionate emphasis on global reach when in reality global reach is useless if you can't utilize them properly, that's what makes CS good in my opinion,sure they're practically EU game but other than the fact that CS:GO is the better game( note that CS2 will catch up and they are) they still trumps valorant in most aspects.
(Just my opinion though, I will revise back to my textbook to confirm this 😂)
+1, this whole global reach thing is kinda pointless, you are spread out but the growth varies in the pace. Like CS is so well known in europe that denmark has CS as an additional subject course, Ukraine has s1mple as top 5 atheletes among youth and NAVI are the 2nd most valuable sports club inside Ukraine
I am probably clueless, but tell me, why would valve for example care if they have pretty much the same number in playerbase without much advertisment as valorant. Their esports product is shown, their product is played, they don't spend money on the esports scene, they sell in game items. They know that their European audience is unlikely to switch, has been there for like 20 years and still growing
Not really, if anything global reach makes it even harder for companies to make decision unless the company has superior market knowledge. Some companies are better of staying domestic if they don't have the market knowledge to go global. Also Going global comes with a lot of challenges.
Companies that go global has the advantage of having a safety net if one region goes to shit. But going global means your expenses will skyrocket. Especially when riot prefers to handle everything themselves.
So it's not really clear whether going global is that better than staying domestic
(Might gonna revise my textbook later lol)
is it europe problem that NA CS destroyed itself by recycling the same washed bots while they had a thousand orgs investing big money when they werent even that good? maybe they should have thought about having a decent t2 ecosystem, academies and proper scouting/talent development, historically there has always been talent there but its not our problem they couldnt develop a good ecosystem so it slowly died and most players/org left for valorant, latam/br scene is really solid right now, Australia has two pretty decent teams rn and China/Mongolia looking the best ever with The Mongolz/new Tyloo superteam + some other decent asian teams, if its EU centric its because we have developed a better ecosystem/scene and we love the game more, if a region like APAC wants to become good at CS they just need to play the game in those regions and develop a solid local scene, with time once they develop a good local scene they will eventually get invites/make it to international lans through qualifiers which will also increase the amount of slots TOs/Valve give to their scene since its based on performance, a team of 5 fucking randoms from Mongolia are looking like a solid t1.5 team rn all u need is to play the game, Valve/CS isnt like valorant where you will have the developer holding your hand to promote the game in those countries, they make too much money to care about using CS esports as marketing, all they care about is seeing the best CS possible and having the best teams/having an open scene where it feels like a real sport instead of dogshit franchises, if u dont like that ur region is ass in scene then just play the game more and try to create an ecosystem to develop/spot talent over there
idc about NA cs, they can fuck off, China/Mongolia are the future, they actually love the game in Mongolia and the chinese have a promising local scene imo, if NA want to get good again they should start by playing the game, all they do is play valorant because their tiktok brains only care about the shiny new toy which is why all their esports scenes end up dying, they lost most of their good players even if they werent that good internationally but I guess thats not bad, all they need is for people to start playing the game a bit more over there and getting some orgs to invest/streamers, they have improved their scouting out of neccesity but their scene kinda died because of no streamers over there to some extent which is how u get americans to play videogames most of the times, wouldnt be bad if tarik played CS more often or some of the old CS big names that moved to valorant since most of them are washed anyway
Not really the truth, that kind of mindset is exactly why cs struggles to penetrate other markets unlike valorant did.
As much as I don't like Valorant's way of handling their esports , eventually when the game is starting to have a placehold in most community and all the losses will be paid off. And valorant will be in a better position, but this process should be done one by one according to their size and potential, but riot didn't and invested in everything which ended up in a shitshow like their tier2.
There is a potential that valve is missing out on future markets and Valorant is actively investing on that albeit carelessly.
CS is like life, you wont have someone holding your hand to get you to play the game, you want a good CS scene? have a passionate scene with a good ecosystem and that loves the game, Mongolia prime example of that, only thing that matters in the end is being good at the game regardless of where you are from, if there is a passionate CS community over there then the game will grow organically, would certain regions be bigger if Valve agressively marketed the game over there? Sure but if they cant even build a decent scene after 20 years of CS what makes u think they will be good, it must come from them, if u want good players/teams u need a lot of people to play the game in your region in order to produce them, if those regions want that then they should just play the game not expect special treatment from Valve trying to beg them to play one of the most famous online videogames ever, what marketing does CS even need? there isnt a gaming soul out there that doesnt know what it is
Companies did not waste billions into marketing for nothing you know 😂😂.
You say that because cs is already big and they happened to be the most successful, valorant doesn't have that kind of luxury and have to resort to marketing to close the gap.
When your market is just EU and few other countries then there is no point to marketing because you are big enough to not need to do that.
Valve doesn't beg regions to play the game(because they are so popular), they're begging gods to make sure another region like Mongolia comes out, not every region can be like Mongolia because some regions require a bit more convincing to invest into the scene.
One of your core mistake is you have the same assumptions about valve as you have about riot. In reality both companies have different situations and goals to begin with hence having different strategies.
And btw if growing organically means having to go through 20 years of growth, that is impossible for Valorant to do because the situation is so different now compared to back then.
I also think every region in CS will eventually grow organically, every region is doing fine except NA who arent even that bad and APAC where there is no scene but China/Mongolia are growing like crazy so it might get others from Asia to play the game, in the end you dont need to market the game in every asian country but hope the big dog which is China and others like Mongolia to become serious and then some others might join in, even if I agree that CS would benefit from marketing over there it also must come from within, Valve is about giving no special treatment to anyone, if APAC ever get an interest in the game then they will be good, I think a major in Singapore or something would be kinda cool but its a matter of ego, trying to beg these regions to play a game 20 years old that everybody knows ffs
What do you mean by cs has failed to penetrate other markets?
The biggest issue with Valorant is the lack of tier 1 International events in a year followed with a 6 month offseason. The league as an idea is good but it creates a bubble. NA CS did the same thing and gate kept new and younger players and kept recycling same players on different rosters. Once NA CS broke that cycle the region got a lot better, players took it more seriously, egos were gone, etc. Then sadly Covid hit and hurt the scene more than anything else and esl didn’t help at all.
What potential is valve missing out on? They already have the most popular tact fps game out followed with the #2 most popular esport (#1 in terms of fps) with Dota behind that. The only thing Valve is missing out on is cs2. Game looks better but is a downgrade in every other way. Should have just left csgo.
CSGO > val > cs2
Valve penetrated the global market by being the default tac fps, but valve never dove deeper than that, hell would you even call that penetrate at all? All it takes is just for one company serious enough to create another tac fps game and commit into it, and valve would eventually lose the competition(aside from EU and other countries).
The truth is companies needs to be able to balance between a laissez-faire and centralized management, but i see that people misunderstand and thinks that cs> val or vice versa.
I have 2 possible explanaations
A) valve are lazy - most logical answer
B) valve are playing the longest game possible and I will go into more details. I feel like valve allows the scene to shape itself naturally. CS can have as many TOs as many Events as many teams as they actually want, valve aren't stopping the TOs or the players from this. same goes for regional invites, it has a set minimum for each region ( being 2 for asia, 3 for europe and america ) and the other slots being decided on how good the regions actually are. and I believe that this system works. CS has 4 generations of players now in some countries like Ukraine and Russia and Denmark and Sweden.
I dont know about valve being lazy, that would need a much deeper analysis just to reach that conclusion
But if this is capitalism everyone would be bitching about valve rn 😂, going by what you said essentially valve said let the rich get richer and poor gets poorer, it clearly works for EU but it failed in most cases, doing that you missed out on most countries out there, some have the potential to be a good region but required valve's involvement because of their circumstances( competitors, regulation, audience etc).
Latam has a team in 9z, Brazil has 5 solid teams, NA has M80 and Wildcard and NRG, Asia has Mongols and FlyQuest and now Talon, an interest brewing in China and small European scenes making a case for themselves with Portugal, Turkey and Czech Republic. So I do believe that CS will become a global game soon
I disagree. CS2 is shit and a downgrade from CSGO but CS is still a better esport than Valorant. Skill gap is overall higher in CS. The way Riot handles Valorant is different compared to way Valve handles CSGO. In CS the best of the best have to qualify and battle it out. Riot's way of handling it is holding regions hands to promote the game. Each team from every region gets x amount of slots where in CS the best of the best play each other not a lot of hand outs. If you actually played CS and are from NA there are a few reasons why NA lacks behind Europe and other regions. NA CS was its own worst enemy. Players in the scene cared more about egos and paychecks rather than winning. They created a bubble and recycled the same players throughout the same teams. Valorant had similar issues but its not as bad now. In CS it's better now but what most young NA players lack is experience. When NA CS was at its best (2018-2019), we had players who actually cared about winning and new players were getting opportunities. NA also had 6 events a year instead of now where we get 1-2 (meaning best teams in the world come to NA giving better practice and experience to younger players in t2-t3). What really destroyed NA CS though was covid. Valorant didn't help but covid was the real killer.
Also just the overall way the pro scene is ran are different. Personally not a big fan of 6 month off season and 3 events a year or the franchise league because it does create a bubble. CS schedules are more similar to professional athletes. It's ran like an actual sport.
Also have some other things as well. Least in NA, majority of us grew up on consoles. I certainly did along with most of my irl friends. It's just more popular than PCs as where majority of Europe is the opposite. You won't see players like m0nsey or donk coming out of NA who've been playing the game since they were little. Valorant is a lot of people's first FPS game. It is more casual friendly which is fine but typically the better players especially pros came from a FPS background already (mainly CS, some r6, ow, and apex).
CS is CS
Val is Val
I watch Val esport simply because i can watch atleast 2-3 regions without any problem since there less game and less inter event. Especially each region have their own unique team playstyle, comps and etc
Look it at this way, having only 3 international event feels like each event matter alot more.
As a semi casual watcher myself Val is the perfect esport to watch
EU will never understand you. They only live in their own bubble. They forgot South East Asia alone with mobile legends have more viewers than CS and Valorant.
Japan #1 fps is valorant
Korea currently #2 most played game in pc bangs is Valorant
SEA I don't know but I'm sure they play more valorant. They even have Valorant in SEA games. (like a mini olympics)
China Top 4 Most played game (15 million players). while CS is in Top 10 (1.3 million players). Dota 2 was in Top 19.
NA cs is dead and Valorant is more successful. They even have college valorant teams.
CS???? EU only.
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