Official End of VLR Team/Player Debates

#1

sentinelmain377

Team Comparisons:

Best Team of Each Year: Gambit 2021, Optic 2022, Fnatic 2023, Geng 2024
Top 10 Teams of Each Year: Top 10 Teams Each Year
Top 15 Teams of All Years:
FNATIC > LOUD > ENVY/OPTIC/NRG > SEN > FPX(EU)/NAVI > GAMBIT/M3C > EDG > ACEND > EG > GENG > TH > VS/DRX > TL > KRU > FUT

Player Comparisons:

Top 5 Players of Each Role: Top 5 Players Each Role
Top 20 Players of Each Year: Top 20 Players Each Year
Top IGLs: Top IGLs

If you disagree, provide reasoning, but this is the best team and player ranking list.

#2

egann

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i disagree

#49

sheahhhh

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yes it should be

2021 Gambit
2022 Optic/Loud Literally the same team that year icl
2023 EG
2024 Gen.G

#3

Azzelastia

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2023 is EG. Champs is the most important tournament.

#5

kristof

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2022 is loud then

#13

MissesHisShots

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And 2021 ACEND

#23

cameran

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and 2021 is acend as well ez

#34

Camden

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acend won masters and champs that year

#39

GrimmjowJaegerjaquez

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what are you smoking bro?? there were 2 master events that year, Sentinels won the first one and Gambit won the other and Acend won the champions.

#42

sentinelmain377

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there were 3 stages in 2021, unlike other years

in Stage 1, there was a masters in every region:
Masters 1 NA Winner = SEN
Masters 1 CIS Winner = GMB
Masters 1 EU Winner = ACE
there was also a BR, LTM, TR, KR, JP, and SEA masters

Stage 2: Masters 2 Reykjavik 2021 (where SEN won)
Stage 3: Masters 3 Berlin 2021 (where GMB won)
there was an Lcq after stage 3 and then finally,
Champions 2021: (where Acend won)

#45

GrimmjowJaegerjaquez

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Bro chill I've been watching VCT from day 1, I was maybe confused with that stage 1 masters to EMEA qualifying for international events.

#43

Camden

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https://www.vlr.gg/event/334/champions-tour-europe-stage-1-masters

#69

Camden

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2021 is gambit. Keep in mind acend potentially could’ve gotten knocked out in group stage. Very controversial call by riot. After losing to keyd stars riot made them replay the game with keyd stars starting down a massive amount of round and keys stars almost came back and beat them again

#70

sentinelmain377

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https://www.vlr.gg/379025/acend-and-vk

#8

sentinelmain377

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bro the fuck????

#9

childish

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yes champions is important because its champions but two international wins over 1 sounds alot better

#12

sentinelmain377

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1st, 1st, 4th is way better than 9th-16th, 2nd, 1st.

W

#19

EzWinz

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When you put it like this it is a clown
Do this
1x Lock in
1x Masters
4x Champions 4th place
Eg
9x Lock in
2x Masters
1x Champions

#35

Camden

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we should also consider placement regionally

#64

LilRickyy

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Same teams... Literally just a bigger prize pool. Nothing else changed.

#68

AlexiaLikesPasta

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I agree, the end of the year should be more important, eg were always improving and peaked at the most important tournament, while fnc always looked great, but ran out of gas.

#4

EzWinz

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???????????????????????????????????????????????????? Prx>> Fpx
First of all do the trophywise and follow down the trophy THEN get into the NON tropy teams

#20

meadows

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Fpx/navi higher peak, PRX consistently better for longer.

#6

Aayan

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. (gonna go through this later)

#7

Average_NA_fan

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u made our mind the debates are over

#10

CanadianLegend

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For the Duelist in Top 5 for each Role, if your including Prime Years, I dare say Yay (2022) would over shadow almost all of the duelists if I’m being honest considering you did Shao (2021-2022)

#14

sentinelmain377

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Yay has been duelist for 2021-2024 and we can see his fall off. Shao switched roles to flex tho (cuz of Ange1 wanting to play initiator instead) at start of 2023 so it is kinda hard to compare.

#16

CanadianLegend

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You should prolly include that because I liked the way you did it with Chronicle, but the way you cut out Shao’s years it makes u think that u can compare prime years. Great list tho fr

#11

StutterSt3p

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People like this are the worst lol. Just think they know everything and cocky asf for no reason. Debates are debates for a reason, no dumbass is gonna end it.

#40

geospliced

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Well said!

#15

kristof

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Loud won the team of the year at the esports awards in 2022

https://nerdstreet.com/news/2022/12/esports-awards-winners-2022

#17

sentinelmain377

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OPTIC 1st, 3rd, 2nd >>> LOUD 2nd, 11th-12th, 1st

its almost like LOUD saved strats in Copenhagen and used them all up in Champs 2022

#18

kristof

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Champs trophy + 2 regional trophy >>>> 1 masters

Loud won the team of the year award.

#21

CanadianLegend

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Problem is they bombed out of Masters Copenhagen

#36

kristof

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Champs and 2 regional trophy makes up for it. Btw did optic win a trophy in copenhagen?

#22

babysasuke

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I swear you make something like this every other day and its always heavily EMEA biased.

Best team of 2021 was Acend or SEN
Best team of 2022 was LOUD or Optic, probably LOUD
Best team of 2023 was EG without question (EG places 2nd at master and wins Champs, Flukenatic wins masters and doesnt make a podium finish at Champs)
2024 so far is Gen.G but their (and others') results at Champs have a lot of weight so its subject to change

#24

MissesHisShots

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Ain't no way my guy said ACEND

Gambit won a Masters and were in grand finals of champs
Sentinels won the 1st masters but fell off a cliff and got grouped at champs
Acend did win champs but were invisible throughout the rest of 2021

Considering Champions was just another masters with a yellow coat of paint at this point, I'll take the team with 2 finals appearances

#25

babysasuke

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Acend did win champs but we're invisible throughout the rest of 2021

wtf are you talking about, Champions was the end of 2021 (edit, ok I see what you mean. nah I still don't care, you're braindamaged if you think gamb0t was the most relevant team of that year)

Also, gambum and aCned both didnt make iceland at all so cry
1 Masters for gamb0t, 1 Champs for acend, cNed and zeek 2v5'd that shit team

SEN qualified for every event and won the first LAN ever

#26

MissesHisShots

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rest of 2021 = international events before champs

sen won the 1st ever lan? cool. what did they do after? vanished

I still take GMB over ACE even if they got 2v5'd, two finals appearances speak for themselves

#27

babysasuke

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sen won the 1st ever lan? cool. what did they do after?

Win Masters Madrid

What did Gambit do? Disband kkkkkkkkkkkkk shit org with a shit team leaves Valorant

I still take GMB over ACE even if they got 2v5'd

They literally lost, you can check the VOD, I promise I'm not making it up

#28

MissesHisShots

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Masters Madrid was 3 years later. This is a discussion about 2021 only.

I'm agreeing with you, even if Gambit lost in the grands, I still take them over an ACEND team that achieved nothing before and nothing after

And hey, Gambit disbanding was (as far as I'm aware) not their fault

#29

babysasuke

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That last one is not a topic that we are allowed to discuss here.

#30

MissesHisShots

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My bad gang

My point still stands

#31

sentinelmain377

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he is a known baiter. why did you keep replying for so long?

you are right btw, Gambit clears 2021

#44

MissesHisShots

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I had nothing better to do

#38

Camden

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Acend won masters 1 earlier that year

#37

Camden

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Gambit won 2 masters
Sen won 2 masters
Acend won a masters and a champs

#46

Camden

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2021 clearly gambit
2022 loud/optic
2023 clearly Fnatic
2024 even if GenG bomb out will probably still be GenG unless Sen/fnatic/EDG win it due to Sen winning another masters earlier in the year. Fnatic winning stage 1 and 2, or EDG winning kickoff, stage 1 and stage 2

#48

sheahhhh

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no EG champs win and 2nd at masters, lock in is a fluke for format and start of franchsing

#51

Camden

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How is lock in a fluke.
EG
8-16th lock in
3rd Americas
2nds masters
1st champs

Fnatic
1st lock in
2nd EMEA
1st masters
4th champs
Also continued to win red bull home ground which is classified as an A tier tournament

#52

sentinelmain377

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FNC back-back trophy wins (never happened before)
FNC also diffed EG in h2h twice.

idk why this is debatable in the first place

#54

sheahhhh

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regionals dont mean shit especially when emea was a 1 team region LMAO

lock in was def a fluke, the format was single elim and most teams never faced each other, in group settings, a lot of team weaknesses get exposed from different team playstyles

#32

sentinelmain377

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bump

#33

zhongZHI

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too early to decide team of the year. if heretics wins this id put them down for it over geng

#53

Camden

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I mentioned this earlier in the thread. I would say even if GenG bomb out. Sen/fnatic/ or EDG would have to win in order for someone to take the 2024 spot from GenG.

#41

akaFelipee

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2021 Gambit
2022 Loud
2023 EG

#47

sheahhhh

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EG clears bro come on, 2nd at Tokyo and win at Champs be fr
even if ur emea, u have to agree lock in was a bad format due to single elim only staying down a single lane albeit entertaining, also it was the start of franchising so many new rosters

gambit sure

#50

Iquickscopei

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By that logic Gambit shouldn't be the best team because they only did good on single elim tourneys

#56

sheahhhh

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masters 3 had a group stage lil bro

and champs is champs no matter the format because of its importance

lockin was a bum tourney at the start to show off NEW unpracticed franchising teams, champs holds so much importance

#58

sentinelmain377

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does it matter tho if they won Tokyo right after anyways?
also the top 5 at LOCK//IN is consistent with top 5/top 6 at champions 2022 proving that the win is definitely not a fluke

(FNC, LOUD, NAVI, DRX, NRG) = (LOUD, OPTIC, DRX, FPX, FNC)

#60

sheahhhh

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yes it does matter, u can see the difference in how EG placed

#62

sentinelmain377

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EG beat Heretics (bottom 2 bumass team in bumea) and lost to Talon bro ☠️ ☠️ ☠️

#65

sheahhhh

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thats my point, it was the start of franchsing and fnatic mantained their core while many teams made drastic changes

EG did bad at LocKIN due to fresh start to franchising and fluke formatting, look how good they did with time, majority of people dont even consider it a masters but what it is "a kickoff", entertainment but not the most competitive format

its not the same as a masters after a champs like normal because its the start of franchising not just another year turn

#55

Camden

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You can’t blame it on format. How did the format make it unfair for other teams? If anything we should be praising Fnatic more for winning a more cutthoat tournament. Also we have to consider regional performance. Not only did Fnatic win more international tournaments than EG this year they also performed better regionally.

#57

sheahhhh

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nothing is unfair, im just saying its a bad measure of who is the best team at the time because some teams have easier routes to get where they are and some weaknesses are left unexposed because they dont have to face different teams who may have been eliminated

#59

Camden

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Easier routes I guess if we are arguing a team that placed like top 32 vs top 16 but Fnatic literally won the whole thing. It’s pretty much undisputed.

#61

Iquickscopei

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In playoffs, Gambit didn't have to face 100T who actually beat them or acend who beat them later on or even Sen because of single elim because they were knocked out by other teams.

#63

sentinelmain377

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that 100T win was just a 3-11 legendary comeback on Icebox, we can ignore it. GMB definitely best team of Berlin 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mt4IgMxwxEQ

#66

sheahhhh

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fnatic vs loud... ☠️ 🤣

#67

sentinelmain377

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shhhhh ☠️ 🤣