What's the verdict on Masters Madrid?

#1

cartixuzi

Apparently the last time a team won Masters/Champions and then got regionally grouped in qualifications for the next major event was Acend and only Acend, and that was also because of the huge meta shift to Chamber after an offseason.

I know this is a hot topic right now but I wanna genuinely hear what you guys think, I get that SEN were having visa issues after Madrid but I don't think this is convincing enough for a lot of people given that they just lost 0-2 to LOUD who had way worse visa issues.

#2

Manaphy

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I don't think its a fluke.

#3

Asuna_Yuuki

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I genuinely think it was Micky mouse

#6

cboomer

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the ONLY thing that you can argue fluke about sen madrid run was the game against LOUD @ madrid where they won like 8 clutches

#8

TheAceGamer30

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That’s cus loud was slow on retakes

#13

amedy

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no way an american dog with an nrg flair had a good take

especially you

dont worry man, these idiots are sen glazers. usually if you're getting downvoted in VLR, you're telling the truth.

#4

kalayav_n

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fluke win

-zellis
-sacy
-tenz
-zekken

+yay
+egoist
+genghsta
+crazyguy
+steel(coach)

#5

FrenchToast

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^^^

two different types of nrg fans

#7

Ksgod69

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Would be a fluke if they played like they did at Madrid but they regressed. Right now if that Sen was playing they’ll proll be on top but they got worse

#9

TheAceGamer30

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Nah sen are just out of form , they can be because of burn out

#14

amedy

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the glaze is crazy

#17

Al-Mawsil

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everyone on this site are glazers or haters

#10

Existential_crisis

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If it was just one month later sen won't win it . They had stable roaster.

#11

Wronghand

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My take is that basically every team that made Madrid had been grinding that offseason. So, you do the offseason, grind for kickoff, 3/8 teams had to also grind through the lower bracket of kickoff, then grind through Madrid.

I feel like after all that 4 month long grinding you reach your burnout. These teams peaked in kickoff, because they committed to winning the early section of the year. Now, it's time for the teams who lost in kickoff to properly hit their stride in what is their month 3. I wouldn't be surprised AT ALL if the teams who make Shanghai have a rough split 2 because of burnout. Look at loud, after a laughable first 3 games they are hitting their normal form again just now in the second last week of the season. It took them a month to recover from Madrid. Every team has looked off since madrid; it's their fundamentals that have suffered.

Tl;Dr - The teams at Madrid were mostly offseason grinders who hit their peak, now in Split 1 the other teams are hitting their peaks while the madrid teams are burning out; (most of) the madrid teams are screwing up fundamentals while their opponents are hitting form.

#12

cartixuzi

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feels like we're really reaching with that LOUD take, losing to G2 is still very possible. Also a big argument on this burnout talk is why this logic didn't apply to LOUD and especially FNC for early 2023. This entire "hardest grinders" argument just doesn't make much sense to me, how do we know that SEN actually grinded more than any other team in Americas to win Kick Off? What if the teams they beat played more scrims a day way more often?

#16

Wronghand

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That's a fair point relating to other teams, but simply those other teams didn't peak then and got a month of prep instead. C9 and Kru both did offseason events to get ready, then got group since they didn't peak at the right time. Now, after a month break, they're playoff teams.

As for the 2023 examples, look at the game density. Fnatic played their first 13 games (5 lock/in and 8 regional games) in a span of 82 days. Sentinels played their first 13 games (7 regional and 6 masters) in a span of 36 days. Fnatic got 23 days between their lock/in win and their first regional game. Sen got 11 days between Kickoff and Masters, and 14 between winning masters their first regional game. It has been 71 days since the season started and Sen have played the same amount of games that was required for fnatic to win lock/in and get to the upper bracket finals of tokyo (which fnatic got 114 days to do). GenG had an easier time since they got more time between Madrid and the end of kickoff, but they still looked shakey the first two weeks of regional play. So, the madrid teams have had to face a lot more this season than Loud and Fnatic had to face last season. I think it's valid to talk about burnout for these guys.

Edit: Clairifing the grinding point: It's more that the teams who had been grinding were able to hit their stride at the right time, and I'm jusf assuming the teams that looked worse in their ideas and fundamentals were just grinding to a lower degree. It's mainly an assumption, but I think if you drop that point there is still enough there to see that the madrid teams are overworked.

#15

TacoTreyKirby

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I don’t think any run at an international event is a fluke just given the fact there are so few international events to determine that lol. But I would say that the belief or idea that SEN were so far ahead of everyone else was probably wrong. In truth besides them and Loud, every other Americas team was either formed late or made changes last minute. And then in the case of Kru and G2 they made changes post kickoff pretty quick which makes me believe that issues were already there and these changes were being pondered. SEN and Loud were the beneficiaries of getting their full 5s pretty quick and were able to have offseason with them. Now the other teams have had time with their squads and have caught up imo.

#18

dual000

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Just accept than every team improve
To anyone who said Madrid was a fluke/micky mouse tournament , You are that pathetic so you want to bring down other so you are not alone