Let's fix tier 2

#1

PrinceCharming

Let's get the vlr community ideas board on how to fix tier 2.

Is it even worth it?
Is their better options than a traditional tier 2 system?
Is there opportunities for the players in tier 2 to better lack of sustainability?

I want either hot takes or logically thought out answers, no in between

#2

WhoseTao

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Allow for more ways to reach t1, shorter off season for t2, add a relegation system to keep t2 and t1 constantly in competition

#9

kitsuneHP

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relegation cant happen because of franchising which they will NEVER change just for tier 2

#11

WhoseTao

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I mean yea but question asked how to help t2 and the only way to help t2 is to stop isolating it so much further from t1

#14

kitsuneHP

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true but resolving more issues within t2 like the half year off season should be a start. and a minimum and maximum cap for salaries of t2 should make it more competitive

#18

WhoseTao

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salary cap for t2 wont help because the orgs would invest any amount, if there was a reasonable amount coming back, not a 2% (obv not 2% but its not a high chance for any team to reach t1) to reach t1 and then gain some money back. A minimum salary, if anything right now would just lead to more orgs backing out, more dedicated ambitious players would rather play in a lower salary under an org than just not play in an org due to the org needing them to pay a certain amount. We need to cut the off season, and provide a healthy ways of revenue for the orgs choosing to invest into t2. Also, a higher prize pool won't fix the issue, there just need to be more ways to "succeed", right now t2 is more of a hope and pray than a reasonable choice unless you're apeks in emea lol

#19

kitsuneHP

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oh yeah i didnt think of it that way. but most of all riot should come to the decision and have the balls to alter something about t1

#20

WhoseTao

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mhm riot needs to take critical action over t1 and t2. Their goal was to make t1 sustainable by the next years, and by implementing franchise teams weapons (for moneyyyyy), they thought after 1 bad year, the orgs wouldn't just kamikaze but clearly all it took was one year lol

#3

oblvs

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personally I like what they're doing with premier but it needs to be more rewarding, playing a whole season of premier, winning it against former t1/2 pros then winning a promotion tournament just to get into 1 split of t2 isn't worth it for most people

#4

beaver_man

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Delete franchising

#5

awaky

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just revert it to the old format

#6

PrinceCharming

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If you revert to the old format you kill tier 1 and 2 at the same time because it's not sustainable. Especially without the bags of venture capital that kept it afloat

#7

cartixuzi

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It'll fix itself once the game becomes more popular, that's just the reality. I do think the VCT yearly format needs to see better changes though to accelerate the game's growth.

#29

asdfgh

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wdym fix it by how,and the game is already popular it has been out for like 3.5 years it isnt gonna have some insane growth spurt anymore expect in regions where the game isnt popular yet

#8

Cl4W

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maybe split Americas and Pacific even China has their own league and Ascension(dont know why Riot think China has enough talent for that)

#10

PrinceCharming

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China having a league is probably not related to talent it's due to player base, sponsorship opportunities and potential growth. As well an all Chinese league is easier to manage/find sponsorship for than incorporating Chinese orgs into Pacific for example

#12

Cl4W

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yeah because of that the only t2 that will exist is the t2 of China, Americas starts it and the rest will follow sooner or later

#13

kitsuneHP

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it would be much easier for other regions if china is included into apac. like they just be hogging 1 undeserved seat in masters

#16

acels2

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what? did u watch champions

#17

kitsuneHP

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fuck. yeah mb im trippin

#15

MneMaloMaloMaloTebya

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no franchising and this wouldnt be such a big problem

#21

RepulsioN

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You cannot have a fair system in place if 'partnered teams' have nothing to lose at the end of every season. No relegation for franchised teams irrespective of performance is a broken system.

I know comparison with traditional sports is not the best stance to take but to bypass that particular view, having the partnered teams locked in for a certain number of years after which they will be eligible for relegation based on performance guarantees the safeguarding of both financial means for the VCT and also ensures that teams aren't just benefitting because of their reputation and financial stature with 0 pressure to perform.

Ascension teams having a 2 year period in the franchised league is broken because of the aforementioned reason. What if they outperform the partnered teams in these 2 years but are forced to get relegated? What part of that seems fair?

Right now the system doesn't prioritize meritocracy.

#22

LyCan52

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have 4 team ascended every year 🗿👍

#23

RepulsioN

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And they are relegated every 2 years irrespective of performance while the partnered teams have a free swing at things without a care in the world.
Essentially making tier 2 a shot at ascending for 2 years for a handful of teams and not worth investing into which is exactly what you are seeing all around the world with tier 2 orgs dropping out like flies.

#24

LyCan52

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allat break it down to 9 words 👍

#25

bronzil_enjoyer

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bro cannot read noob

#26

LyCan52

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burgir talking

#27

meyournightmare

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Look How They Massacred My Boy

#28

koromast

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letting the teams who won ascension last year play the lcq for champions was a good start but they didnt even try, if you win ascension you wont debut on it until the next year and you can get removed from the team without even starting to play, even tho you were one of the reasons why your team suceeded into making it through, if lev or nrg werent interested tex would´ve been kicked from franchising even tho he literally was the 2nd most valuable player of his team during ascension

#30

valcygnus

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I think people blame franchising for stuff that isn't the system's fault.

People love to pretend things were so much better before franchising but the reality is, that there were only that many teams investing the money because of the possibility of them getting franchised. It makes complete sense that we would see a crash of the T2 system because this year teams that played in Tier 2 were spending like they were Tier 1 teams.

There's a big disparity between what people expect the second division to be and what Riot wants for their esports. They're not prioritizing meritocracy, they prioritize long term stable orgs who can bring fans and money into the ecosystem.

In the long term, I think having more yearly promotions is a good measure to implement. Fixing the calendar (something riot did do for 2024) is also a huge improvement.

I think it's just that orgs have been spending way too much for what's financially feasible and lots of players have the wrong perception of what Tier 2 means in Riot's eyes. It should never be a place to stay, rather a way to get into tier 1.

Lots of people are gonna disagree with my take that franchising is actually better for the long term survival of the esport, but that's just my opinion lol