Franchising killed competitive integrity

#1

hekzy

I just want to remind all the clowns that claimed that franchising would raise the bar.

I want to remind them that this: https://gyazo.com/1185bd082c62bbc61842ebbe67c1e322

Turned to this:
https://gyazo.com/09398b00f5d90d54f23a303b9d80b7cf
https://gyazo.com/15007210f96a48156e8b3b39a7c9478c
https://gyazo.com/bbe27e6dbcc3c6d36cef4c18016b952a
https://gyazo.com/f17dbe5a60a23339cffb906227725f1a
https://gyazo.com/b1e2bf0094623d7d7f8f2148cad18d62
https://gyazo.com/be0c1a13278c295243be7c4a5e0f08bd
https://gyazo.com/6ba559b24a03082e34c5779259fdfacb
https://gyazo.com/83378852568fe2c4feaaf8effef643d0

#2

Thunder9795

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Cost cutting and fan service is real

#3

DecimateYKTV

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I sometimes feel like NA ascension has more talent than franchised NA teams.

#6

Subreezy

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because it does

NA franchised orgs are centered around nepotism based off of what teams the orgs had from before. c9 kept 3 (now 2) players, EG kept 4, 100T kept 4, NRG kept 3 (which was the only good core to keep tbh). c9 adds 2 new people and all of a sudden they're not a joke anymore and they're actually winning maps against top teams.

compare that to EMEA or even Pacific, where most shitty rosters got dropped in place of good talent. if NA orgs had an ounce of brains, SA wouldn't be shitting on us like they are rn.

#14

chick

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YOU’RE TRUE, but that does not explain why sentinels is shit rn- they dropped 4 players no?

#17

koromast

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because they made their world champions swap roles, and their roster wasnt gonna work since tsm beated them on a bo3 tbh. it was the rain before the storm but everyone said we were overreacting

#52

1mBor3d

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Are they really shit tbh? They were against nrg and on 1 map against lev who is like top 3 itw on pearl at least

#60

Marshal_D_Teach

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Bro is just overreaction.

#64

seavl

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xset would beat leviatan and so would loud

#61

Yessire

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You saying they were shit against Lev? Go and gain a few brain cells. All you yanky boys know little about team building too. Proper fools. Oh and by the way, dropping Syyko was so fucking dumb. Same jerk reaction applied to Alex Ferguson at Man United would have seen him sacked as he started very badly. The Valorant scene is fucked.

#16

koromast

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the fact the only SA team who sucks rn is kru because they have nepotism too (kru klaus and nagz instead of getting axeddy and xand on main roster or even tier 2 talent from br or latam like daveeys)

#24

hekzy

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idk about pacific but Acend, Apeks and FireFlux all deserve to be in franchising more than KC, TH and BBL.

#32

Subreezy

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KC is an experiment gone wrong, TH is a completely new roster so its unlucky that they just don't mesh well, BBL is decent imo (maybe it's just heroics from a few of them but i digress)

#50

zardinez

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KC was an org going ok scream do it your way, and then him trolling the boots off the world

#44

Barre

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True but u cannot tell me that the two new C9 players are what made them good, the core 2 especially Leaf has looked fantastic and 100T looks fine on paper too with some of NAs best talents. EG on the other hand is what ur describing and also I like Sacy and Pancada but surely we dont need them right?

#51

Nachtel

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100T just needs a coach with a strong voice tbh

#68

drippp

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i guess in theory, sticking with a core would help speed up the process of building team synergy but some of these core were horrendous. EG core was horrible. 100T core was alright but their strats look horrible, NRG core is good but LATAM/BR seems to have their number.

#69

drippp

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i guess in theory, sticking with a core would help speed up the process of building team synergy but some of these core were horrendous. EG core was horrible. 100T core was alright but their strats look horrible, NRG core is good but LATAM/BR seems to have their number.

#9

hekzy

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that too.

#54

SamBR

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you feel it, cuz they play NA vs NA
trash vs trash
so when your NA team lose to a SA team you feel like the franchised teams are not talented

#65

Subreezy

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you cannot possibly say that SA would still be dominating this hard if NA orgs got fresh talent instead of keeping fucking boostio and c0m

#67

SamBR

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NA teams are talented, they have insane good players, the problem is the skill gap are pretty close.
If you understimate your oponnent you gonna lose, I think NA teams are underestimating some opponents like NRG vs MIBR

#4

Sharo

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Oh right, cause scores weren't like that before right?

#10

hekzy

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give me one team out of the ones i posted that got rolled over as hard as heretics and KC, i'll wait.

#40

Abydaby

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Oglu got 13-0d icebox vs fnatic

#41

Piter

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OGLU would 13-0 KC any map

#56

hekzy

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oh wow, one match where they weren't competitive VS 6 maps in a row (and probably the entire season)

OGLU would literally shit on KC btw.

#47

Mortadelo

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https://www.vlr.gg/event/854/champions-tour-stage-1-emea-challengers/group-stage
0-5 and 0-5

#55

hekzy

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BIG lost 3 of their games 2-1
SMB was dogshit and that's literally why they weren't there the next season <3 that's the magic of relegation
You're proving my point

#59

Mortadelo

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So if next year different teams are at the bottom will that prove my point?

#63

vooooooooooooooooooooooop

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Stop cherry picking info . You're embarrassing yourself. And let's not pretend that "NA ASCENSION" is better.

#72

hekzy

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He literally picked the 11th and 12th team. Instead of comparing the top 10 to the top 10. That's cherry picking.

#5

bonkashi

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it's gonna get better in the next couple splits/ years. right now multiple teams have signed complete frauds, once rosters are unlocked and more teams are put into the league though ascension/ invited by riot, bad players and coaches will be filtered out.
there's no way orgs like KC and Heretics aren't looking at results right now and aren't extremely disappointed, they're going to make changes once Riot allows

#12

hekzy

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Why? None of these teams have any incentive to improve.

#15

bonkashi

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being shit isn't good for brand image

#20

TMosura

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Who says that? There have been rapports of Riot kicking teams out of their leagues (albeit during their early days) because of either performance results or force majeures that could hurt both their own brand and the team themselves. Coupled with the fact about the rumors on Riot auditing the teams' performance and economic stability (remember, it's not FRANCHISING it's PARTNERSHIP), there are incentives for organization to improve their image both publicly and to Riot.

#22

hekzy

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I knew I'd find you here. You were the main person that kept advocating about franchising and how "it wouldn't kill competitive integrity".

If you kick TH and KC you'd have to kick KOI and BBL as well because they perform just as bad. It would never happen, the bad press would be worse than keeping these shit squads here. And even if they do eventually kick them, it will be a year or two AFTER they've already ruined the competition. Imagine having to wait 2 years for any competitive integrity.

#25

Dwighty

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Ignore him.
It's his job to dick ride Riot
Just another Riot shill.

#27

TMosura

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And I'm still advocating it now. I believe my words wasn't exactly that it won't kill competitive integrity, but I pointed out that it won't make what we had becoming worse. I know there are shortcomings (and honestly, I'm just taking the trainwreck of KC in jest. Performance in my wording isn't simply because of competitive performance; it's also about fan, sponsorship, investors that drives the teams and the league forwards.

I never take one singular factor as an end-all catch because that would miss the entire point. It's Year 1 of the Partnership program. There'll be shitty organizational decisions, shitty management decisions, and shitty rosters that will drive people insane. But waiting isn't the horrible end that you pointed it out to be.

I just want to take a example of Team BDS in the LEC. Different game, but similar (and much more established) "franchising" system from Riot. They acquired Schalke's spot in Spring 2022 after the former had financial woes. They're the hot new squad that signed rising talents and established veterans. They were 9th place; out of 10th. Same with Summer; they were even worse, last place. They were riddled with issues. Player dramas, management woes, both BDS fans and outside observers were calling for their heads, saying Riot's making a mistake of allowing BDS to get the spot and for BDS to ruin it. But for 2023, they made changes. Thoroughly. Completely new roster and management team. They were improving for Winter 2023; 7th place. They made the playoffs that split. People were excited about the changes. And now? They just locked themselves a spot in the Spring 2023 Grand Finals.

It's a bit of a different situation between Team BDS (being a new team coming into an established league) and the likes of KC, KOI, TH, BBL (new teams in a newly established league). It's Year 1. Will we see changes from them during the off-season? If they value their fans and position within the ecosystem, I think they're going to. But it's very early to tell that Partnership killed competitive integrity.

There are always shitty teams with clueless management.

#30

hekzy

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The problem is that without CIS (thanks riot politics) and with these complete garbage VCLs in EMEA the tier2 scene is absolutely dead. There are three teams, acend/apeks/ff who are the remnants of what could've been a prospering EMEA scene, but no more. Valorant is not as established to keep a tier2 scene like that alive, it's not as popular as league nor is does it have grass roots.

After this year, EMEA tier2 will completely die. And in two years time, all of EMEA will be dead because of that, because there won't be any talent to pick up from tier2 (like BDS did). Because no tier2 talent wants to waste his time waiting in the shadows while frauds like mixwell and newzera get the benefits. And the orgs in tier2 will not pay 2/3 years worth of wages with no returns (because polaris has like 300 viewers) in the hope that they can clinch that one final spot.

Soon, all of tier2 EMEA will be orgless. After that, it's going to be an OWL incident, and it's over for EMEA. And that's just EMEA, I have no idea about other scenes.

#46

monitar

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you are probably right

#31

Dybala21

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Damn nice analysis

#7

SigmaMale

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Facts.

#8

Sprouts

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this looks a lot more like “Franchising KC killed competitive integrity” lmfao

#11

hekzy

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TH is there too.

I'm not putting BBL there because they're actually ambitious and they can't use Elite yet.

#19

Sprouts

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you’re right but I think it’s too early to make this thread. If TH, KC, EG, and DFM are still shitting the bed by next year’s split, then I’ll completely agree with your point.

#26

Will__

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lol wheres KRU? EG beat them btw and heretics btw

#48

Ullyr

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Kru looks like they're trying in their games though. Just watch how bottom Americas team play compared to kc and th. Kc look like headless chickens . You can't just pick on bottom teams , every league gonna have teams that will be at the bottom. It matters how they look in their games.

#13

en3sk0se

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age limit restricts the teams too much

#18

BrotherMan

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Bring back optic D:

#23

hekzy

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THIS. Optic and XSET. They were the best NA teams by far. But they lost the popularity contest smh

#21

south_eastindian

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LMAO while everyone else playing valorant, KC implemented CS gameplay on Valo, have u see Scream playing duelist never buy util, he goes for full shield rather than buying util like satchel or smoke and died later thinking he could 1tap everyone like csjoe but get caught by slow and flash in the middle of fight 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣😂 mad funny how this 50iq guy became igl and doesnt had brain at all, at the same time 😭😭😭😭

#28

jeezus

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Its year 1 relax

#33

Olofboost

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It's year 4 of Valorant esport. Don't make excuses for garbage formats after such a long time.

#34

CowokjarangmAndy

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The thread is about "franchising", that why he said "it's year 1 relax" cause it's was year 1 of valorant franchise

#35

Olofboost

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In the future he's gonna say "it's just year 2 relax", then 3, 4, 5 and so on. While anticipating the same dogshit rules and tournaments Riot feed him with.

#37

CowokjarangmAndy

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Hey we don't know anything about the future, valorant franchising might grow instead, maybe team will notice what they find wrong in year one and fix the team for the upcoming year two, atleast i know Riot care about team on pacific rn cause RRQ was used to be 4 PH and 1 ID while being ID Rep, but now they have 3 ID and 4 PH. We just need to wait and see maybe in the future we might see strong and solid team like "Optic and FPX" start appearing.

#38

jeezus

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Nah dude, they will learn. First and foremost, it is up to the management if they'll settle for mediocrity, and as for the players and team as a whole, you know playing with your friends won't cut it. for example Karmine Corp, the reason why ScreaM went there in the first place because they were friends not because they were established. And the reason why some tier 2 teams are better in NA, is because rather than be signed to a tier 1 team, they chose to stay with their friends like the Guard for example. If they don't win ascension and they'll still choose to be in tier 2, thats on them not on franchising as a whole.

#29

acels2

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that isnt competitive integrity

#57

hekzy

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yes ofc. having clowns and streamers in the top leagues instead of the actually better teams has nothing to do with competitive integrity.

#36

RedditGGGB

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Franchising is shitty, but this has nothing to do with integrity

#39

Ullyr

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Everyone know franchising is gonna suck the first couple of years or season. Its cause there's clearly gonna be teams or players that flop or aren't meant to be in tier 1. With time these teams will get better because they get a lot of flak losing so badly. Its's a model that is suppose to be long term plan.

#42

Faraday

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franchising is shit for viewers but not because of that,
These current teams are literally first iteration,
it'll get better every transfer window
If only riot made more of those holy fuck

#43

firefirefirefire

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lmao why is always eufrogs with this kind of posts, this guy looks like he dont ever bother to watch the game, only make posts complainig, csjoe at its finest

#45

kbkdark

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Bro... most of these EMEA roster was made by keeping t2-t3 players together, thinking that adding 1-2 world class players to play with this t2-t3 players would work in a couple months (what was, and still is, kinda absurd tbh)

#49

Mortadelo

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Dude that's so opportunist. First of all the system clearly needs time to regulate itself, it's the base of it. Second of all ofc there were rolls last year too and awful teams.

Also the "there are non deserving players in franchising" is such a bullshit, you either don't fit, are contract locked of simply didn't perform in your tryouts.
Answer me this question, were there not tier 1 worth players in tier 2 last year? And the other way around, were the 50 players the best 50 players in EMEA? Was Kiles World Champion material?

#53

TheHowling02

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Way too early to tell.

#58

vipermommydomme

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Open circuit clears

EG never made a LAN and now they're in franchise when challengers winners and LAN qualifiers like g2 cores and TGRD are battling to the death for a chance to play against good teams

Wonder if you opened the circuit how many VCL teams would qualify in place of EG, 100T, C9, SEN, and KRU 🤔

#62

Yessire

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Its all about the dosh boys and girls not the talent.

#66

SamBR

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Franchising is the best thing in Val

#70

reycac

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yeah because without franchising brazil would have 1 team in challengers

#71

SamBR

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I meant it is so much fun watching these international matches every week, that's why is franchising is the best thing that ever happened in Val.