#1

WinterZ

TRANSACTIONS:

-Newzera (No brainer here, bro shat the bed at LOCK//IN, clearly not cut out for franchise)
-xms (same story as Newzera)

+Enzo (Nothing needs to be said, he's an upgrade over Newzera in every way plus his addition takes a lot of weight off ScreaM's shoulders)
+kAdavra (If you've been following the French VRL and the EMEA Challengers, you know that this guy has consistently been one of the best and brightest French players. Definetely an upgrade over xms)

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ROLES:

Nivera: Omen/Astra/Viper/Brimstone (Controller)
SHIN: Raze/Fade/Viper (Flex)
ScreaM: KAYO/Skye/Breach (Flash Initiator)
Enzo: Sova/Fade/Viper (Scan Initiator)
kAdavra: Killjoy/Cypher (Sentinel)

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COMPS:

Lotus:
Omen (Nivera)
Viper (SHIN)
Skye (ScreaM)
Sova (Enzo)
Killjoy (kAdavra)

Pearl:
Omen (Nivera)
Fade (SHIN)
KAY/O (ScreaM)
Viper (Enzo)
Killjoy (kAdavra)

Fracture:
Brimstone (Nivera)
Raze (SHIN)
Breach (ScreaM)
Fade (Enzo)
Killjoy (kAdavra)

Icebox:
Viper (Nivera)
Raze (SHIN)
KAY/O (ScreaM)
Sova (Enzo)
Killjoy (kAdavra)

Ascent:
Omen (Nivera)
Fade (SHIN)
KAY/O (ScreaM)
Sova (Enzo)
Killjoy (kAdavra)

Haven:
Omen (Nivera)
Raze (SHIN)
Breach (ScreaM)
Sova (Enzo)
Killjoy (kAdavra)

Split:
Astra (Nivera)
Raze (SHIN)
Breach (ScreaM)
Viper (Enzo)
Cypher (kAdavra)

#2

Vianx11

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tldr: karmine corp thread

#3

bonkashi

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neither are free agents though, would have to be bought out from their respective orgs, who are both doing well in their VRLs and definitely wouldn't want to lose a player this late in.

#5

WinterZ

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KCorp definitely has the money to pay their respective buyouts

#11

bonkashi

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like i said not just about buyouts, they might not want to accept them with the prospect of making ascension

#4

FoechiGG

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Just play better

#6

zardinez

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Ok deadass nivera and shin were unexpected highlights last tournament, and their lotus looked fantastic. That being said someone needs to take the reins away from scream bc he’s fucking trolling. Banish his input to the shadow realm, put him on duelist, and let him pop heads while Enzo igls and THEN this team will have some potential.

#7

Rebellion2408

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I agree. Newzera was not thatt bad but Kadavra is wayy better. Enzo coming in would definitely help Scream go away from the IGL role and play duelist like Jett Reyna etc. Where he can just pop heads like we know he could. Shin is a really good player and Nivera is just nasty on the Operator that too on Omen and Astra. And yes Xms was throwing most of the rounds they played especially on Split. So yeah I agree with your view and I wish this happened but most prolly it will happen midway in the split

#8

wizardbot

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xms could be given more time. removing newzera and adding enzo on the other hand would give them a better initiator as well as a better caller than scream , not to mention it will free him up to frag more. very no brainer move but unfo he's now on apeks and i doubt they would give him up easily

#9

Styling911

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What about MENA fix

give us something for MENA

#10

M0K1

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https://www.vlr.gg/event/1467/challengers-league-mena-resilience-split-1

#19

Styling911

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I mean his threads are good

maybe we can a have thread how to fix MENA to win ascension

#26

WinterZ

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I believe Ive alr touched on this somewhere else but i’ll summarize it for you

we have the same problems as Turkiye rn, cracked aimers but shit adaptability and no good IGLs. The region just needs more infrastructure and time to develop before we can truly shine also setting up bootcamps in EU will help a ton in terms of regional development

#12

DetonationFocusMeiy

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Bro did comps for every map💀

#13

TheHowling02

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Bring Takas back

#14

legalalien

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+DavidP
they need 2nd caller/IGL and i think they need DavidP

+Enzo
He's underrated player with good initiator agents

#25

WinterZ

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i was considering him but i decided against it cuz I heard some bad things abt his attitude

#15

Chow1E

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Ain’t reading Allat
W if enzo
kAdavra who?

#16

swf

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davidp, fuck enzo he's ass. w davidp they'll acc win something

#30

WinterZ

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#25

#17

soonwookong

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I know people think one of the bigger problems here is scream's igling but they seemed rather structured and a loud player vouched for it, scream may not wanna let it go because he wants to develop the french speaking scene, and tbh they may struggle with buying out enzo. I agree with the 2 cut offs, and I like the additions, but I think enzo is a rather unrealistic pick as apeks may not wanna let him go and scream still seem to want to lead, so we can instead let scream do what he's doing, and get someone like akuma on the front line instead.

#18

Rajesh69PaniPuriSeller

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stop reading at Karmine

#20

Dokka

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Don’t let scream IGL

#21

WinterZ

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just for clarification Enzo is gonna be the IGL forgot to put that in now it wont let me edit 💀💀

#22

k0s10

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just bring a damn duelist man

#27

WinterZ

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Karmine Corp is an interesting team in that regard

I feel like theyre gonna run 0 duelist comps as much as possible and they will be the ones in EMEA to challenge the meta and pull out the crazy comps

#29

enri

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0 duelist comp itself have flaw if you look
I really miss ScreaM on duelist and he is mostly suited for it
hope they take players beside french

#32

k0s10

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bro, liquid had always experimented with such comps, and while I agree it had potential, it ultimately never materialized. i used the call those comps the sliggy ketamine comps, but it seems like scream is the one taking bumps. :D

#23

Targu1n

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So the thing about trying to replace Xms with a t2 player is that any stats you show for that t2 player are irrelevant. XMS was the god of t2; both in France as well as in polaris he was top of the stat board every season.

And yes, adding Enzo to this team makes so so soooo much sense; even if you want to keep scream on igl (I wouldnt, but seems like scream really really wants to igl), having a second igl to add inputs (like he did on fnatic) is gonna help during the transition

#28

WinterZ

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thing with kAdavra is that he's actually played with tier 1 competition and almost broke into the highest echelon of EMEA with Vitality

here he is in top 4 rated and top 1 acs against players like nukkye, MOLSI and so many other franchised players

also you have to consider the fact that xms was p much a chamber/reyna one trick and that even in Tier 1 cs he was a massive flop

#31

Targu1n

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that's just not true at all, xms was primarily a smokes player
and in the last seasons, where he was primarily a chamber player for the team, he regularly played kayo too and put up amazing numbers
don't wanna talk about the reyna... like numbers are fine but that aint the stuff for t1

Xms' team got 1 place behind vit in the above tourney, losing to the same team as Vit, so im not sure what its supposed to prove in terms of t1 experience; yes xms wasnt putting up star duelist numbers... because he wasn't a duelist

neither of them (~~excluding~~ including LockIn) have proven their sentinel vs t1 competition
He'd have to be underperforming in scrims too to warrant a swap to another t2 player.

#35

WinterZ

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yeah

he played smokes regularly and was mid at it

also he’s played under 50 rounds of KAYO i think its a lil bit of a stretch to say anything abt his performance on that agent

EDIT: also I forgot to mention this but I'm glad you mentioned the tourney part cuz it allows for direct comparison between kAda and xms:

Overall:
kAda: 1.13 Rating, 264.2 ACS
xms: 0.99 Rating, 194 ACS

LU Series:
kAda: 1.18 Rating, 283 ACS
xms: 0.97 Rating, 172 ACS

the difference is clear.

#38

Targu1n

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all 50 rounds were in playoffs, aka vs the best teams of the league; if you watch the vods you'll see that its a champ hes practiced^ as mentioned in the post below the bo1 format allowed to map pool to be manipulated in a way where he ended up on chamber every time during the group stage

edit in response to your edit:
what tourney are you referencing here and what is "LU-series"?
cant exactly find direct comparisons myself since their head to head games were slightly one sided team wise

#39

WinterZ

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all >50 rounds were also played out on Ascent. We don't know how good his KAY/O is on other maps (Ntm that Ascent is by far KAY/Os best map).

Like I said, IMO, its a stretch to say he's good or bad at the agent

#33

eeeeeeeee

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XMS was chamber abuser. Before chamber he was mid asf

#34

Targu1n

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again with this bs
look at his last 2 seasons (aka his "chamber phase"), both seasons he showed he's more than capable on other characters too, being a top tier player (even higher acs) if you remove chamber

yes he was the chamber player for the team and played it a ton, especially/mainly in france where the bo1 format allowed the map pool to be manipulated, but that's as far as your argument goes

and then the whole "he was mid before"... dude was on a team with kAdavra and literally trading back and forth with him stat wise, while on smoke characters. So apparently both were "mid asf"

I understand liking kAdavra, hes putting up one hell of a show this season, but ya don't gotta drag another player through the mud for literally no reason because of it

#37

WinterZ

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trading back and forth with him stat wise

if you take a look at the maps where he actually played smokes on Alliance and even on TENSTAR, you’ll see that he was really mid at it. Stats were inflated by him playing reyna and smokes in the same series

#42

Targu1n

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and if you look at kAdavra in the same series vs t1 teams, he was "mid" too. Thats what happens on losses when trying to break into the t1 scene.
If you wanna take the games vs worse teams into consideration click on the all button in his stats, 200 average acs for a player right between t1 and t2 is quite simply not bad.

If you want me to go over those maps for you, looking exclusively at the maps xms was on smokes, feel free to ask; its quite literally back and forth of who was doing better... almost as if both were/are top players :o

#43

WinterZ

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if LU is not a Tier 1 team to you then idk what is lmao (its literally the VIT core). He was MVP of the whole tourney and consistently excellent in VRLs whereas xms only started to pop off on agents that weren't reyna when Chamber became meta

also 200 ACS for your most played agent against mostly tier 2 competition is quite mid IMO

#44

Targu1n

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wdym with LU? are you refering to LDN = london united (or just call them OGLU)?
because in that case, yes kAdavra was amazing series against them (though very... aggressive iirc)

but thats not a head to head comparison; you have 2 different teams with vastly different structures here.
that'd be like saying kAdavra is shit because Xms farmed him in their France matches last season. Dont think anyone could agree with that
Comparing players on different teams we pretty much only have the results the team get, since its hard, if not impossible, to determine what player contributed how much to it from the outside.

That's why I was using the time they were on the same team (which is where the quote you responded to is from^), since they'll have had the same eco, the same team structure, the same players popping off and the same scorelines to deal with.

Yes its still not a good comparison (at all) since teams set up different players differently (I doubt anyone's gonna be regularly flashing for the smokes player, rather than the jett, but the smokes player also doesn't have to entry), and the stats really dont tell you much about how well a player does for the team, but nothing we do is considering KC did their own trials to see who was the better fit, which we have no access to xD

#24

Moiraine

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IMO scream's talent is wasted on IGL-ing but since he REALLY wants to do it, i will just drop the subject

Xms is a dirty chamber one trick wonder. literally was and is still only good on chamber. He is bad at cypher and KJ, and his rifling isn't even good. Bye
Newzera is not good enough at this moment in time for tier 1, needs to work harder and improve and he may still not be talented enough for this level. he needs to go as well.

KC needs to - those 2 players, and bring in more firepower (no Enzo please, that guy is ASS, and scream alrdy IGL-ing, no thanks). Bring smart players that can play different agents and have good aim. if i have to watch xms 'play' cypher one more time... Ugh yikes.

Shin is for me the one big revelation of all EMEA teams at lock in. What a talent. Needs to keep working hard and he will be great, scream will also teach him a lot.

KC is on the right track but won't do much until they get rid of those two. Nivera shin and scream talents are wasted otherwise

#36

Mjtchell

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Import Subroza

#41

Ramzz

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yep, best move they can do

#40

koromast

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bro said scream breach, the only support character on the game to the player who does most overheat 1vs1 aggro peaks of emea

Karmine Corp Fix for Regionals

TRANSACTIONS:

ROLES:

COMPS: