NAVI vs FNATIC

#1

TipTop

Ange1 > Boaster

Shao > Leo

Suygetsu > Alfajer

Zyppan < Chronicle

cNed < Derke

???

#2

Subreezy

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Shao and Leo are too equal to rank one over the other imo, they're both insanely cracked initiators

#21

Jeffo

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This is wrong on so many levels, Leo is good but not even close to Shao on any aspect of the game.
The only who can be in a debate against shao is Austin "Crashies" Roberts.

#28

Okoretro

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Crashes is massively overrated

He doesn’t come close to shao or leo

#29

bonkashi

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W

#30

Jeffo

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Bro snuck in Leo, this guy hasn't won a masters, has been to only one masters which he didn't even get to top 4 and is being compared to Crashies.
The disrespect is astounding.

#32

Okoretro

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He was literally diffing crashies and was essential at shutting down yay

#33

nutab1e

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it's called a prediction brooooooo!

what is the fucking point of rating players only after their accomplishments?

I think it is much more interesting to watch the games, notice the talent of a player, and make rankings based off that

leo is on the cusp of winning a masters is it really so bold to put him up there with shao if you think fnatic will win this masters?

#36

Jeffo

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You could say he has the potential, but disrespecting Crashies who achieved so much is not really the way to go

#42

hekzy

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Wtf first sensib1e moment

#45

nutab1e

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shao clears leo imo but it's ridiculous to say that masters reyjavik last year has any bearing on current rankings, achievements mean nothing in this game

#51

Moiraine

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first time i agree with nutab1e
"jinxing dog" and alldat

#70

hekzy

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i aint reading allat

#38

Pengu12

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Sorry but L best player in Nrg

#48

Mortadelo

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I'm sure as a Sen fan you understand the value of staying consistent throughout time

#52

Pengu12

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:(

#65

Mortadelo

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This was meant to be a reply for #47 lool, mb

#40

Dokka

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Shao edges ahead of Leo on aim and clutch by a tiny margin

Leo is far better with his utility than Shao is

They are equal in caliber imo

#68

TkM

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based

#53

Moiraine

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Both of them clear crashies whether they won or not.
Just because leo’s teammates werent as good as crashies’, doesnt mean leo wasnt better than crashes for over a year now.
Mald.

#56

User5678

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IMO Leo has the best utility usage, out of the Initiators ( Especially on Sova)

#3

nutab1e

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zyppan clears chronicle

#4

Mortadelo

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Probably accurate individually. But FNC gameplay is a lot more Strat based, last year probably literally all FPX players were better than FNC's and they still managed to beat them twice

#9

valulrantefanboy

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Yeah, thats why navi are scary. They dont have identified playstyle or clear stratbooks to learn

#10

babysasuke

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They sit and do nothing

Rat corners, never info gather, never take space, and wait

It won't work against teams with cleaner executes and players that don't shit their pants when they have to win an aim duel

Navi is going to 39-0 them.

#18

Mortadelo

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Dude they managed to consistently be top 4 with fucking Mistic and Enzo there had to be something about their play style that was better than other teams

#22

babysasuke

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When Mistic and Enzo were on Fnatic, everyone was dickriding them until they choked

same thing will happen with this roster

#25

Mortadelo

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Nobody has ever dickrided Enzo or Mistic in their lives. Everyone has always known they were lower tier 1 players

#26

babysasuke

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mhm

#71

Yessirskiiii

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Nah Babysasuke is right on this one. Alot of people were defending mistic and Enzo and when i said they are both average players that are not good enough to be on a championship winning team i got downfragged big time.

#39

Pengu12

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Top 4 once??

#41

Mortadelo

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Top 4 once, Top 5/6th twice? Top 2 once? Got grouped just once and it was with 2 subs while having attended every event but 1?

#47

Pengu12

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Ok the top 2 is ancient, they ain’t consistent top 4 if they only got it once last year

#72

Safi

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Bro who u even arguing with ..dude keeps on receiving L everywhere

#54

Moiraine

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This.
This is why navi is scary. 3 of them are individually better than fnc’s players (derke > cned unless we’re talking about op skills and chronicle better individually than zyppan unless zyp has a guardian).
If fnc beat them its because theyre strategically superior (which, to be fair is the hardest part of this game)

#58

symbols07

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when its the top 4 of an international lan, it is never just about the individual gameplay, it never will be...

#61

Moiraine

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I know it's not. FPX and NAVI both got where they got last year because their strats and IGL-ing was good. But last year, Mistic and Enzo were SIGNIFICANTLY worse individually than anyone on FPX and yet FNC still beat them so many times (except the one time it mattered most...) and it was specifically because their strats were just that much better.

Here now, both NAVI and FPX got here because their stratting has been insane but also players have been individually insane. So even though, the players on NAVI are slightly better individually it is not that big of a difference. so stratting will be once again what really differentiates.

What you said, although true overall, you can't tell me that Shao swung the game on Ascent vs LEV (that was most definitely a swing round) it was because NAVI were just better strategically, it was simply because Shao outplayed them individually. You can most definitely win games through superior gameplay at key moments.
Remember Mwzera's insane individual prowess vs FURIA where they won a round they shoulda never won, simply because Mwzera 1v4'd the entire FNC. That wasnt because FURIA was strategically better, it was because Mwzera did something individually insane.

I hope you understand what i mean. And sorry for the book i just wrote.

#57

symbols07

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more like 4 times

#5

ax0788

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I say 60/40 for NAVI. They have shown less cracks in their gameplay, and cNed > Derke on OP.

#6

lulshotXD

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Will be a good game, both of them haven't dropped a single map but NAVI look's clean

#7

NG1nS

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i know everyone is putting cNed<derke understandably...... but

you will see the cNed diff very soon

#46

iammika1999

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The good thing about cNed is that he overheats, the bad thing about cNed is that he overheats.
I dont think Derke has this problem tbh

#8

babysasuke

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Ange1 >>> b0tster

Shao >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Leo

Suygetsu > Alfajer

Zyppan > Chronicle

cNed >>>>>>>>> Derke

#13

Yessirskiiii

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Ratio lil bro

#14

valulrantefanboy

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Bruh sucking Navi so hard after getting shit on by Chronicle

#16

babysasuke

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yup I really thought Fnatic was the best team in the world before!

clown fr

#19

Yessirskiiii

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Chronicle is one of my favourites but no one should disrespect babysasuke like that imo

#23

babysasuke

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ratio lil bro 💀

#24

Yessirskiiii

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Counter ratio

#11

Zayol

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NAVI just got lucky.
FNATIC will send Ange0 and friends back to the airport
🤣🤣🤣

#27

MANIAC8686

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ANGE1 has won 1 masters u mean B0aster 😂😂

#12

Yessirskiiii

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Ange1>>Boaster
Shao > Leo (this is close because Leo is probably the best pure initiator in the world, Shao plays Astra and Omen alot)
Zyppan = Chronicle
Suygetsu>> Alfajer
Cned <<< Derke (this was close too, both top 3 duelists atm but Derke been slightly better this tournament)
I think NaVi has the better individual players just barely

#15

Domination

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Ange1< Boaster big brain diff

Shao = Leo

Suygetsu < Alfajer smokes that toxic dude

Zyppan < Chronicle

cNed < Derke diffs that jett one trick

#17

Valgod

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Shao = Leo

#20

Jeffo

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Why do people rate derke so highly tho?
He's usually insane, but I'm pretty sure he goes double negative everytime they face elimination against a big team, it happened against SEN, Kru, PRX, FPX, DRX...
The opposite could be said for cNed, when acend were good, he would step up everytime they're in danger and pull out massive performances against the biggest teams in the world.
For this game I'd say cNed >>> Derke
For a regular season Derke would destroy the other teams.

#31

Okoretro

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I literally just checked and he never even went negative in all the elimination matches you named (went double positive on 2 of them)

#34

Jeffo

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Check the decider map on every one of the games i mentioned:
ALL NEGATIVE, most of them bottom of the table

#35

Okoretro

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That’s cherry picking stats lmfao

Literally look at his performance across all maps

#37

Jeffo

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I litteraly said facing elimination, is he facing elimination across all maps?
I already said he's usually insane, I know exactly how good he can be, but I remember him choking on the big moments so I pointed it out, no cherry picking in there.

#49

GreyDaze

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By that time the pressure mounts so much on him and he gets sick of basically carrying them on his back. He is still consistently top 5 acs in every tournament he has played in except Copenhagen(where he was top 10). I'd say that's pretty solid reason why everyone rates him so high

#43

Crystalzer0

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talking about rating people highly.. what about your flair?

#44

Jeffo

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Liquid are pretty bad right now, how is that related to derke being a choker?

#74

Crystalzer0

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you were talking about derke being rated highly. Liquid was rated very highly this tournament and therefore, probably the team that choked the hardest of them all. Having an off game when you go deep in the tournament isn't "choking". Getting outed by in the manner TL did definitely is

#55

Valgod

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Last 3 derke games when facing elimination: 64-44 vs drx, 54-53 vs fpx, 65-52 vs kru

#59

Jeffo

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Maps when Fnatic facing elimination:
Fracture vs DRX: 13/15 bottom of both teams
Fracture vs FPX: 13/16
Bind vs PRX: 16/20 2nd to last
Split vs KRU: 13/19 bottom of the team
Vs Sen in 2021 he was bottom on all maps
You see the similarities?

#60

Valgod

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He still went positive in every game

#62

Jeffo

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No he didn't, he was negative in 3 of them, and that's not even my point, I said facing elimination and he went negative/ bottom on all of them

#69

Valgod

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Are you dumb or are you stupid?

#50

patuj

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I think individually only Derke wins over cNed from Fnatic (outside of oping). But in reality most of them are really equal and in any day could outperform each other. That is what makes both teams so dangerous. Such stacked rosters.

#63

joellogic

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that suygetsu » alfajer doesn't convince me one bit.

yeah Soygetsu might have some flashier plays, but overall, alfajer has a greater output. not even close.

#64

nutab1e

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💀

#66

joellogic

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it's true dude.
Don't be blind. Go watch acs, player rating and Damage per round.
Alfa has a much higher output.

An plays any freaking agent in the game almost.
He's freaking cracked at Jett and Raze. Suygetsu not so much.

Suygetsu is fantastic player, but alfajer is better in my opinion and data proves it.

#75

Moiraine

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this tournament ? Or overall
Cause alfajer played raze and neon for fnatic, my guy you cannot compare those stats lmao

Also suygetsu dragged navi over the finish line to win a masters after Shao solo dragged them to semi's. Don't disrespect suygetsu's achievements.
He hasn't even been playing to his level this tournament yet.

#67

Kirya

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Navi will clear fnatic and it wont even be close

#73

soraol

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Suygetsu<Alfajer(this match)