JP Killed KR Scene

#1

Sprouts

I saw a comment that said KR didn't have much talent based off the LCQ performance so far so I had to check and I realized how little talent is currently in our own region. Japan has imported what I would consider to be around half off our 'tier 1' players, which is why the region is so weak at the moment. Our 3rd and 4th best teams could also be on the same level as DRX/DK on paper, but we are stuck with teams like Maru since these players all left for paychecks (not that I'm saying it's not the right move for them, but it's unfortunate for our scene):

Astell (CR)
Seoldam (CR - Content)
HSK (DGW)
Suggest (DGW)
iNTRO (RC)
Medusa (RC)
JoXJo (NTH)
Meteor (NTH)
Foxy9 (RIG)
eKo (RIG - Loan)
Lakia (IGZ - Loan)

Not to mention xeta, Munchkin, and Saya all moving to NA to compete. Honestly, it's good for the players to receive support but just really sad to see for our region :(
I saw a lot of SEA fans getting pissed that KR might even get 2 slots, but you have to remember that most of these teams won't look the same. We have the talent to have more then one successful team but the players are just too spread out right now, that's why franchising will genuinely benefit our scene.

#2

Yicko

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what would your god roster with these players be?

#3

archetype

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you could make like 3 or 4 - maybe even 5 rosters that rival/beat DRX in firepower with the JP/NA/Damwon KR/FA players

Even more if you include WGS players

JoXJo was on GoNGo Prince, which was like a solid 5th? maybe even lower team in Korea.

#11

Sprouts

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Add in players like Sylvan, SSun, and k1ng + all the KR players in Japan and an org like Gen.G has so much to work with

#14

archetype

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And the young talent that definitely have the potential to compete but aren't old enough or can't afford to be able to attend the LAN stage.

#4

Asueikah

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not OP, but, Joxjo, Lakia, Meteor, Seoldam, and Medusa imo, honorable mentions to Astell and Intro tho

#5

fidelio2

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saya was in overwatch league with florida mayhem then moved to val with t1. so he didnt really move to na

#6

archetype

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he started playing valorant in KR servers and JP servers

#22

Mjtchell

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Yea but he was in NA Overwatch scene and came straight to NA Valorant Pro Scene.
Saya never played in any APAC teams or tourneys
A well as he knows more pros in the NA Valorant scene because of OWL.

#25

archetype

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to be completely honest the NA OW scene is like 90% Korean players - that's because OWL is hosted in LA and all the OWL teams p much live there last I checked.

but i get what you're saying. He did start playing Valorant in Korea though - this much is true.

#45

hiyo

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OWL is who can get the most amount of koreans tbh

unless you're gladiators idk how they do it with majority western player

#50

archetype

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built diffy

#7

nikoya

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yeah I completely feel the same. I don't blame them but it really is unfortunate for the growth of the Korean competitive scene.

#8

gekiatui

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agree. i don't understand the mindset of jp teams. does everyone just watch instead of play? is that why they prefer importing rather than getting native talent? they have so many viewers but the game population is not big enough? too bad japanese fans will root for any jpn team in masters, even with koreans (unlike bleed and apac fans). having kr coaches is also a problem (they will try to import kr players)

#66

Iceblitz

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Technically the truth, they play apex but watch valorant

#9

archetype

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Worth mentioning that JP didn't necessarily kill the scene. KR itself just fucked the scene over with shit tournament formats.

And also T1 and C9 removing their KR rosters. At least C9 did well for themselves with that move but T1 partially fucked over KR. And I know they did it due to a Riot ruling.

JP having a huge interest in Valorant is not their fault, it's only natural that talented players want to be fairly compensated for their skills.

#13

Sprouts

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Yeah, I didn't mean for it to sound so harsh like it's their fault that our players wanted to get paid lol, it's our own orgs fault for not investing

#16

archetype

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yeah no worries, i had this opinion back during champs last year. it was so sad to see.

franchising will help korea a ton i believe.

#26

Mjtchell

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I would like to note that Traditionally C9 is an NA org first and if they can only have 1 team NA is their priority.
T1 going to NA seems selfish org wise and kinda fucks over KR

#51

archetype

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exactly

#40

thatpower

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the forced lan environment also prevented many people from competing. i remember hearing from some pros that the cost of transportation and other things made it not worth it.

#42

archetype

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yep

#10

totneK_kaT_umkaM

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Seoldam not really pro play until Nth recruit him.
It's not JP kill your scene, your own org kill the scene. They don't want to give good opportunity and good contract to player.

#12

archetype

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this. this x 100.

having JP investment + KR talent would boost the scene a TON. Merging JP/KR would help with this tbh. But JP already imports a lot of KR players sooo

#23

totneK_kaT_umkaM

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-edit- forget it. Next year franchising happen.

#27

archetype

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I wouldn't mind that tbh. I like mixed rosters.

#15

valulrantefanboy

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Are KR players competing abroad all way better than KR players in KR teams (except DRX) ??

#17

archetype

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Xeta and Munchkin were on C9K that got 13-0ed by VS during I think First Strike.

HOWEVER, in terms of raw firepower there are a lot of KR players that are just mechanically better than the DRX players. Just none of them have had time or resources to get to the same level of teamwork.

#18

simurgh

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JP Killed KR scene?? more like KR Killed KR scene

#20

Sprouts

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#13

#19

trola

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I mean, if im a korean player i also definitely choose the higher salary JP offer and higher chance to go international than playing in KR with lower salary just to get destroyed by DRX😁

#34

Sprouts

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that's why i don't blame them, i would've done the same

#38

nikoya

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yep. There was nothing wrong with them, they were just looking out for themselves and trying to secure a relatively stable livelihood. Japan treated them better and provided more opportunities. Neither Japan nor the players that left can be blamed. Especially considering how volatile and unpredictable esports as a career can be. You need to build a brand and become well known, Val is popular in JP so it works out. Better treatment, more exposure, higher game relevance, greater support, etc. Why stay in Korea?

#21

thatpower

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i wish lakia stayed with nuturn. that transfer destroyed nuturn and a lot of the competitiveness.

#24

Xianjing

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as soon as KR orgs like T1 & GenG prefer to field a roster in NA instead of KR, I knew it's just a matter of time before "talent drain" hits KR

#29

Sprouts

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i don't blame them for moving in the early stage, since fielding a successful NA roster is worth a lot more than a successful KR one. but they spent way to much time messing around in NA when things didn't workout, Gen.G was a T3 before they disbanded

#30

archetype

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despise T1 for that tbh. They are the most recognisable Korean esports org in the world and they abandoned KR just to do fuck-all in NA.

At least Gen. G just outright started in NA first..

#56

no_noise_979

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its because of joe marsh

that guy becoming CEO was the worst thing to happen to T1 and korea esports

#58

archetype

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Everything I've heard about Joe was that he's a pretty chill guy. He seemed pretty smart too.

But if he made the decision to move to NA and stick there then that is fucked up.

#59

no_noise_979

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really? i dont remember exactly but from what i heard mainly from league that he isnt that kind of guy

#60

archetype

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hmm

#61

no_noise_979

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take what i say with a grain of salt as i dont completely remember and cant find anything in my history because i get google to delete anything older than 6 months

#63

archetype

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lmao its all good. maybe im the one with outdated info

#28

SnooTangerines

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Damn my words really hurt some koreans.

PS - It was just a bait for the fake flagging Korean dick rider.

#31

archetype

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unfortunately it is not that deep

#32

Sprouts

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it wasn't even you lol: https://www.vlr.gg/126986/what-are-slots-for-apac/#28

#39

KoreanOverlord

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your dumbass really thought u were something didnt u LMFAO

#33

Moi6969

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Imagine if Korean org invested a lot like Overwatch and PUBG
EZ major win
but T1 and Geng went to NA. some org made Rainbow6(lmao) teams

#35

archetype

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biggest save would be for all the KR OWL pros and orgs to move to Valorant.

#36

KoreanOverlord

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no, they saved our scene

without jp these players would not even have a job

#37

FlyingDoggoWoweeClap2

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"I saw a lot of SEA fans getting pissed that KR might even get 2 slots"

nah i won't be pissed if u guys get 2 slots but if u guys get 3 slots... idk what to say anymore

#41

simurgh

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vouch

#43

archetype

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i agree. 2 slots will be ok. 3 is good but not at the cost of SEA

#47

FlyingDoggoWoweeClap2

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APAC prob getting 4 slot 2 for SEA and prob 1 OCE and 1 SA

Sadge fucking bullshit

#48

Sprouts

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if 3 KR/JP teams make it each, the league will most likely have 12 teams. The other 6 slots will go to SEA/SA/OCE, that seems fair to me

#49

FlyingDoggoWoweeClap2

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what about CN tho? they getting 2 slots min probably (huge viewership ofc)

#52

Sprouts

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i think they'll either get their own league or get added into an expansion. if not, then KR/JP/CN should all get 2

#55

FlyingDoggoWoweeClap2

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fair enough

#54

archetype

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CN will get their own league surely

#57

FlyingDoggoWoweeClap2

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yeah i can definitely see that happening

#44

no_noise_979

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well i kind of agree but the title is a bit of an exaggeration

there are many other factors that contribute to the lack of kr growth such as; lack of org investment (especially T1, pride and joy of korea getting a team in different region, T1 alone would increase kr growth by 50%), no tier2 scene, no 3rd party, vanguard not working with pc bangs early in the game, lakia to vision strikers ending nuturn

#46

Klause

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Why not geng buys paper rex.. Easy franchising

#53

renywri

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revenge for lol

#62

frappzlul

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the scene is dominated by drx so imo it makes sense for players to move to "easier" regions to compete

#64

Ullyr

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I mean ik that Korean talents been imported and esports scene is really in the gutter. But saying ur 3rd and 4th could be same level as drx is a big assumption. Even in regions with stack mechanically talents (NA) they still are no match for the Optic in terms of international performances. I mean that it takes more than just crack players to perform well as a team u need good coach and good player synergy as well. The sad thing is just when I feel like Korean teams are improving they make roster changes or give up . I don't blame them but the reality is this game isn't as popular in Korea as League and to Koreans that seem like it's everything. If this game would be half as popular as league it would be thriving because orgs would feel it's worth to invest in teams and compete.

The other main big problem lies in riot dumb idea to make international events only 16 teams. Think about it if Korea and Japan got 2 slots each that would incentivized other teams to actually strive for international exposure.

#65

hazard25

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just saying NA's best has FNS (one of the weaker aimer )

#67

Tanmayyy

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FENG NONG SHANG (FNS) Have Worst Aim Than Mine

#68

ForumPeasant

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I always wonder how TNL would have turned out. They really could have been the new Korean team to potentially challenge DRX in the future but it feels like they got shafted by the format. Had they qualified for Berlin or LCQ things might have been different. Maybe a team like Sandbox or KT could have picked up TNL, and Korea would have 3 strong orgs.