Thoughts on level of each role?
For example,
(Has to be..)
Duelist : The Best or Great or Good Enough?
Initiator : The Best or Great or Good Enough?
Controller : The Best or Great or Good Enough?
Flex : The Best or Great or Good Enough?
Sentinel : The Best or Great or Good Enough?
IGL : The Best or Great or Good Enough?
cloudberry [#4]I'm a firm believer in that a team like this can win international titles
Duelist: good enough
Initiator: good enough
Controller: good enough
Flex: good enough
Sentinel: good enough
yes an example is 2024 EDG
Two_Percent [#7]all should ideally be the best, but team chem/strats/in game awareness will beat out good aim any day
No team will ever have the best in all roles
Tsikhamani [#6]You really need a great igl, because when your opponents are making a comeback it's igl who needs to motivate them and keep them in the game
Forgot IGL, added.
Shadow_Monarch [#11]Possibilities are very slim.
i would say fnc 2023 was really close, other than boaster
leo kinda unarguably one of the best initi, alfa same case, chron was one of the most versatile flex that could still shoot, derke maybe wasnt aspas but he was up there
it was really only boaster
Two_Percent [#12]i would say fnc 2023 was really close, other than boaster
leo kinda unarguably one of the best initi, alfa same case, chron was one of the most versatile flex that could still shoot, derke maybe wasnt aspas but he was up there
it was really only boaster
I agree
laeDLaer [#5]yes an example is 2024 EDG
I mean kk was the second best duelist at playoffs so idk. Chichoo was the second best senti aswell
Shadow_Monarch [#8]No team will ever have the best in all roles
Last year's GenG, lakia had a weak aim but he was really good on Sova and skye
Shadow_Monarch [#10]Forgot IGL, added.
Duelist: great
Initiator: good enough
Flex: great
Controller: goodenough
Sentinel: good enough
Igl: the best
Ooo I like this concept!
Masters Reykavik 21
Duelist : The Best (TenZ)
Initiator : The Best (Shahzam)
Controller : The Best (Zombs)
Flex : The Best (Sick)
Sentinel :Great (Dapr
Masters Berlin
Duelist : Great (Deffo)
Initiator : The Best (Chronicle)
Controller :Good Enough(Redgar)
Flex :Great (Sheydos)
Sentinel : The Best (Nats)
Champions 21
Duelist : The Best (cNed)
Initiator : Great (Starxo)
Controller : Good Enough (Bonecold)
Flex : The Best (Zeek)
Sentinel : Good Enough (Kiles)
Masters Reykavik 22
Flex: Good Enough (FNS)
Initiator : The Best (Crashies)
Controller : The Best (Marved)
Flex : Great (Victor)
Sentinel : The Best (Chamber)
Masters Copenhagen
Sentinel : The Best (Suygetsu)
Initiator : The Best (Shao)
Controller : Good Enough (Ange1)
Flex : Great (Zyppan)
Sentinel : Great (Ardiis)
Champions Istanbul
Duelist : The Best (Aspas)
Initiator : The Best (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (Pancada)
Flex : Great (Saadhak)
Sentinel : The Best (Less)
Lock//IN
Duelist : Great (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)
Masters Tokyo
Duelist : The Best (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)
Champions LA
Duelist/Controller : The Best (Demon1)
Initiator : Great (C0M)
Controller/Duelist : The Best (Jawgemo)
Flex : Great (Ethan)
Sentinel : Great (Boostio)
Masters Madrid
Duelist : The Best (Zekken)
Initiator : Great (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (TenZ)
Flex : Good Enough (Zellsis)
Sentinel : The Best (JohnQT)
Masters Shanghai
Duelist : The Best (Texture)
Initiator : Good Enough (Lakia)
Controller : The Best (Karon)
Flex : Great (Munchkin)
Sentinel : The Best (Meteor)
Champions Seuol
Duelist : The Best (Zmjjkk)
Initiator : Great (Nobody)
Controller : The Best (Smoggy)
Flex : Good Enough (S1mon)
Sentinel : The Best (Chichoo)
Hades_Loves_Rb [#17]Ooo I like this concept!
Masters Reykavik 21
Duelist : The Best (TenZ)
Initiator : The Best (Shahzam)
Controller : The Best (Zombs)
Flex : The Best (Sick)
Sentinel :Great (DaprMasters Berlin
Duelist : Great (Deffo)
Initiator : The Best (Chronicle)
Controller :Good Enough(Redgar)
Flex :Great (Sheydos)
Sentinel : The Best (Nats)Champions 21
Duelist : The Best (cNed)
Initiator : Great (Starxo)
Controller : Good Enough (Bonecold)
Flex : The Best (Zeek)
Sentinel : Good Enough (Kiles)Masters Reykavik 22
Flex: Good Enough (FNS)
Initiator : The Best (Crashies)
Controller : The Best (Marved)
Flex : Great (Victor)
Sentinel : The Best (Chamber)Masters Copenhagen
Sentinel : The Best (Suygetsu)
Initiator : The Best (Shao)
Controller : Good Enough (Ange1)
Flex : Great (Zyppan)
Sentinel : Great (Ardiis)Champions Istanbul
Duelist : The Best (Aspas)
Initiator : The Best (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (Pancada)
Flex : Great (Saadhak)
Sentinel : The Best (Less)Lock//IN
Duelist : Great (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Masters Tokyo
Duelist : The Best (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Champions LA
Duelist/Controller : The Best (Demon1)
Initiator : Great (C0M)
Controller/Duelist : The Best (Jawgemo)
Flex : Great (Ethan)
Sentinel : Great (Boostio)Masters Madrid
Duelist : The Best (Zekken)
Initiator : Great (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (TenZ)
Flex : Good Enough (Zellsis)
Sentinel : The Best (JohnQT)Masters Shanghai
Duelist : The Best (Texture)
Initiator : Good Enough (Lakia)
Controller : The Best (Karon)
Flex : Great (Munchkin)
Sentinel : The Best (Meteor)Champions Seuol
Duelist : The Best (Zmjjkk)
Initiator : Great (Nobody)
Controller : The Best (Smoggy)
Flex : Good Enough (S1mon)
Sentinel : The Best (Chichoo)
Lol glad you had fun with it
Hades_Loves_Rb [#17]Ooo I like this concept!
Masters Reykavik 21
Duelist : The Best (TenZ)
Initiator : The Best (Shahzam)
Controller : The Best (Zombs)
Flex : The Best (Sick)
Sentinel :Great (DaprMasters Berlin
Duelist : Great (Deffo)
Initiator : The Best (Chronicle)
Controller :Good Enough(Redgar)
Flex :Great (Sheydos)
Sentinel : The Best (Nats)Champions 21
Duelist : The Best (cNed)
Initiator : Great (Starxo)
Controller : Good Enough (Bonecold)
Flex : The Best (Zeek)
Sentinel : Good Enough (Kiles)Masters Reykavik 22
Flex: Good Enough (FNS)
Initiator : The Best (Crashies)
Controller : The Best (Marved)
Flex : Great (Victor)
Sentinel : The Best (Chamber)Masters Copenhagen
Sentinel : The Best (Suygetsu)
Initiator : The Best (Shao)
Controller : Good Enough (Ange1)
Flex : Great (Zyppan)
Sentinel : Great (Ardiis)Champions Istanbul
Duelist : The Best (Aspas)
Initiator : The Best (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (Pancada)
Flex : Great (Saadhak)
Sentinel : The Best (Less)Lock//IN
Duelist : Great (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Masters Tokyo
Duelist : The Best (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Champions LA
Duelist/Controller : The Best (Demon1)
Initiator : Great (C0M)
Controller/Duelist : The Best (Jawgemo)
Flex : Great (Ethan)
Sentinel : Great (Boostio)Masters Madrid
Duelist : The Best (Zekken)
Initiator : Great (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (TenZ)
Flex : Good Enough (Zellsis)
Sentinel : The Best (JohnQT)Masters Shanghai
Duelist : The Best (Texture)
Initiator : Good Enough (Lakia)
Controller : The Best (Karon)
Flex : Great (Munchkin)
Sentinel : The Best (Meteor)Champions Seuol
Duelist : The Best (Zmjjkk)
Initiator : Great (Nobody)
Controller : The Best (Smoggy)
Flex : Good Enough (S1mon)
Sentinel : The Best (Chichoo)
so this means atleast 2 or 3 best players(in their role) are needed to win a trophy
I think in the current scene, a team with a “good enough” player will not win a trophy.
It’s proven with EG, SEN, GENG, and EDG that supportive initiators and flexes don’t have to necessarily be that mechanically dominant as long as their utility is consistently impactful. On the other hand, the entry, smokes, and anchors must be heavy hitters to minimize gaps across every aspect of map control. Fnatic is the only team to break this model.
Edit:
Standard formula for an International Winning Team
Duelist: Top 2
Initiator: Top 8 (Playoffs)
Flex: Top 6
Smokes: Top 2
Sentinel: Top 3
IGL: Best
The only teams I think have a strong chance of continual dominance are G2 and VIT (assuming Sayf’s IGL doesn’t wreck his form).
Hades_Loves_Rb [#17]Ooo I like this concept!
Masters Reykavik 21
Duelist : The Best (TenZ)
Initiator : The Best (Shahzam)
Controller : The Best (Zombs)
Flex : The Best (Sick)
Sentinel :Great (DaprMasters Berlin
Duelist : Great (Deffo)
Initiator : The Best (Chronicle)
Controller :Good Enough(Redgar)
Flex :Great (Sheydos)
Sentinel : The Best (Nats)Champions 21
Duelist : The Best (cNed)
Initiator : Great (Starxo)
Controller : Good Enough (Bonecold)
Flex : The Best (Zeek)
Sentinel : Good Enough (Kiles)Masters Reykavik 22
Flex: Good Enough (FNS)
Initiator : The Best (Crashies)
Controller : The Best (Marved)
Flex : Great (Victor)
Sentinel : The Best (Chamber)Masters Copenhagen
Sentinel : The Best (Suygetsu)
Initiator : The Best (Shao)
Controller : Good Enough (Ange1)
Flex : Great (Zyppan)
Sentinel : Great (Ardiis)Champions Istanbul
Duelist : The Best (Aspas)
Initiator : The Best (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (Pancada)
Flex : Great (Saadhak)
Sentinel : The Best (Less)Lock//IN
Duelist : Great (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Masters Tokyo
Duelist : The Best (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Champions LA
Duelist/Controller : The Best (Demon1)
Initiator : Great (C0M)
Controller/Duelist : The Best (Jawgemo)
Flex : Great (Ethan)
Sentinel : Great (Boostio)Masters Madrid
Duelist : The Best (Zekken)
Initiator : Great (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (TenZ)
Flex : Good Enough (Zellsis)
Sentinel : The Best (JohnQT)Masters Shanghai
Duelist : The Best (Texture)
Initiator : Good Enough (Lakia)
Controller : The Best (Karon)
Flex : Great (Munchkin)
Sentinel : The Best (Meteor)Champions Seuol
Duelist : The Best (Zmjjkk)
Initiator : Great (Nobody)
Controller : The Best (Smoggy)
Flex : Good Enough (S1mon)
Sentinel : The Best (Chichoo)
bro really put "chamber" instead of yay lmao fair enough
in this game it's more about the meta read/prep on maps than player skill imo. You can still get aim diffed obviously, you need "good enough" mechanics, but especially nowadays util can be so oppressive, especially if your opponent hasn't prepped for it, that you don't need anyone who's the best in their role to win an event imo
Tsikhamani [#15]Last year's GenG, lakia had a weak aim but he was really good on Sova and skye
Munchkin has always been igl though so this point is kinda invalid no?
Hades_Loves_Rb [#17]Ooo I like this concept!
Masters Reykavik 21
Duelist : The Best (TenZ)
Initiator : The Best (Shahzam)
Controller : The Best (Zombs)
Flex : The Best (Sick)
Sentinel :Great (DaprMasters Berlin
Duelist : Great (Deffo)
Initiator : The Best (Chronicle)
Controller :Good Enough(Redgar)
Flex :Great (Sheydos)
Sentinel : The Best (Nats)Champions 21
Duelist : The Best (cNed)
Initiator : Great (Starxo)
Controller : Good Enough (Bonecold)
Flex : The Best (Zeek)
Sentinel : Good Enough (Kiles)Masters Reykavik 22
Flex: Good Enough (FNS)
Initiator : The Best (Crashies)
Controller : The Best (Marved)
Flex : Great (Victor)
Sentinel : The Best (Chamber)Masters Copenhagen
Sentinel : The Best (Suygetsu)
Initiator : The Best (Shao)
Controller : Good Enough (Ange1)
Flex : Great (Zyppan)
Sentinel : Great (Ardiis)Champions Istanbul
Duelist : The Best (Aspas)
Initiator : The Best (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (Pancada)
Flex : Great (Saadhak)
Sentinel : The Best (Less)Lock//IN
Duelist : Great (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Masters Tokyo
Duelist : The Best (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Champions LA
Duelist/Controller : The Best (Demon1)
Initiator : Great (C0M)
Controller/Duelist : The Best (Jawgemo)
Flex : Great (Ethan)
Sentinel : Great (Boostio)Masters Madrid
Duelist : The Best (Zekken)
Initiator : Great (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (TenZ)
Flex : Good Enough (Zellsis)
Sentinel : The Best (JohnQT)Masters Shanghai
Duelist : The Best (Texture)
Initiator : Good Enough (Lakia)
Controller : The Best (Karon)
Flex : Great (Munchkin)
Sentinel : The Best (Meteor)Champions Seuol
Duelist : The Best (Zmjjkk)
Initiator : Great (Nobody)
Controller : The Best (Smoggy)
Flex : Good Enough (S1mon)
Sentinel : The Best (Chichoo)
I raise you t3xture as the best duelist at Madrid and dropping zekken to good enough , I saw him more as a role player like Zellsis and just outside of top 3 at the tourney for impact as entry
shaq_attaqr [#25]in this game it's more about the meta read/prep on maps than player skill imo. You can still get aim diffed obviously, you need "good enough" mechanics, but especially nowadays util can be so oppressive, especially if your opponent hasn't prepped for it, that you don't need anyone who's the best in their role to win an event imo
2023 EG proves this point you don’t need 5 top 3 in aim or útil usage just 2/3 works well enough Demon1 Jawgemo Boostio , others could’ve been replaced with other players with similar agent pool that mesh well
Hades_Loves_Rb [#17]Ooo I like this concept!
Masters Reykavik 21
Duelist : The Best (TenZ)
Initiator : The Best (Shahzam)
Controller : The Best (Zombs)
Flex : The Best (Sick)
Sentinel :Great (DaprMasters Berlin
Duelist : Great (Deffo)
Initiator : The Best (Chronicle)
Controller :Good Enough(Redgar)
Flex :Great (Sheydos)
Sentinel : The Best (Nats)Champions 21
Duelist : The Best (cNed)
Initiator : Great (Starxo)
Controller : Good Enough (Bonecold)
Flex : The Best (Zeek)
Sentinel : Good Enough (Kiles)Masters Reykavik 22
Flex: Good Enough (FNS)
Initiator : The Best (Crashies)
Controller : The Best (Marved)
Flex : Great (Victor)
Sentinel : The Best (Chamber)Masters Copenhagen
Sentinel : The Best (Suygetsu)
Initiator : The Best (Shao)
Controller : Good Enough (Ange1)
Flex : Great (Zyppan)
Sentinel : Great (Ardiis)Champions Istanbul
Duelist : The Best (Aspas)
Initiator : The Best (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (Pancada)
Flex : Great (Saadhak)
Sentinel : The Best (Less)Lock//IN
Duelist : Great (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Masters Tokyo
Duelist : The Best (Derke)
Initiator : The Best (Leo)
Controller : Good Enough (Boaster)
Flex : The Best (Chronicle)
Sentinel : The Best (Alfajer)Champions LA
Duelist/Controller : The Best (Demon1)
Initiator : Great (C0M)
Controller/Duelist : The Best (Jawgemo)
Flex : Great (Ethan)
Sentinel : Great (Boostio)Masters Madrid
Duelist : The Best (Zekken)
Initiator : Great (Sacy)
Controller : The Best (TenZ)
Flex : Good Enough (Zellsis)
Sentinel : The Best (JohnQT)Masters Shanghai
Duelist : The Best (Texture)
Initiator : Good Enough (Lakia)
Controller : The Best (Karon)
Flex : Great (Munchkin)
Sentinel : The Best (Meteor)Champions Seuol
Duelist : The Best (Zmjjkk)
Initiator : Great (Nobody)
Controller : The Best (Smoggy)
Flex : Good Enough (S1mon)
Sentinel : The Best (Chichoo)
Ethan was the best flex in champs 2023 arguable with f0rsaken but i believe he had a better tournament statistically and chronicle had a stinker.
Jezy [#28]I raise you t3xture as the best duelist at Madrid and dropping zekken to good enough , I saw him more as a role player like Zellsis and just outside of top 3 at the tourney for impact as entry
Wdym texture was the best at Madrid? Zekken tied the kill record at 101 for a series in the grand finals and was measurably better in almost every single statistic. Texture is incredible, but Zekken was probably the best player, let alone duelist, at that tournament.
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