drop the roles SENTINELS are gonna have on their player, i personally think without johnqt or zellsis adapting a whole ass new role this team is gonna have major role issues and flop.
NARRATE-
ZEKKEN-
BANG- CONTROLLER
ZELLSIS-
JOHNQT- SENTI
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diswaco [#2]what?
narrate scan init
zekken duelist
zellsis flash init/flex
icebox? pearl? these are the maps that 2 controller compositions just clear every other team.
Demon1_The_GOAT [#3]Zekkens staying on duelist. N4rrate initiator. Zellsis flex. Why's everyone yapping about their roles still?
Bang was picked up to replace TenZ. N4rrate to replace Sacy. Common sense.
narrate to replace sacy is common sense,
I think people aren’t realizing that SEN is gonna use narrate for jett maps and zekken for raze maps. Neon I think is dependent on the initiators she’s played with. A big problem for SEN has been they’re bad at jett maps that’s why during the redbull qualifier they had reduxx play jett and zekken on sova.
New Ascent:
jett - narrate
sova - zekken
omen - bang
kayo - zellsis
cypher/kj - johnqt
New Bind:
raze - zekken
brim - zellsis
viper - bang
gekko - narrate
cypher - johnqt
Kevn [#8]I think people aren’t realizing that SEN is gonna use narrate for jett maps and zekken for raze maps. Neon I think is dependent on the initiators she’s played with. A big problem for SEN has been they’re bad at jett maps that’s why during the redbull qualifier they had reduxx play jett and zekken on sova.
New Ascent:
jett - narrate
sova - zekken
omen - bang
kayo - zellsis
cypher/kj - johnqtNew Bind:
raze - zekken
brim - zellsis
viper - bang
gekko - narrate
cypher - johnqt
im just alittle concerned on pearl and icebox, i dont think viper will be on both maps but there will be astra + one more controller so just wondering whos gonna play that
Kevn [#8]I think people aren’t realizing that SEN is gonna use narrate for jett maps and zekken for raze maps. Neon I think is dependent on the initiators she’s played with. A big problem for SEN has been they’re bad at jett maps that’s why during the redbull qualifier they had reduxx play jett and zekken on sova.
New Ascent:
jett - narrate
sova - zekken
omen - bang
kayo - zellsis
cypher/kj - johnqtNew Bind:
raze - zekken
brim - zellsis
viper - bang
gekko - narrate
cypher - johnqt
It’s not that Zekken isn’t good at jett or that narrate isn’t good at raze it’s just that they both fell onto different initiators better.
Zekken Sova > Narrate Sova
Zekken Raze > Narrate Raze
Zekken Jett < Narrate Jett
Zekken Fade?? < Narrate Fade
Zekken Gekko < Narrate Gekko
kalayav_n [#9]im just alittle concerned on pearl and icebox, i dont think viper will be on both maps but there will be astra + one more controller so just wondering whos gonna play that
don’t sleep on Johnqt controllers if a flex is required him and zellsis both have controller capabilities.
kalayav_n [#9]im just alittle concerned on pearl and icebox, i dont think viper will be on both maps but there will be astra + one more controller so just wondering whos gonna play that
also i think double controller with no viper is trolling anyways
Kevn [#13]don’t sleep on Johnqt controllers if a flex is required him and zellsis both have controller capabilities.
johnqt controller flex https://imgur.com/a/gVuxfeh
Kevn [#14]also i think double controller with no viper is trolling anyways
double controller with no viper is trolling? just watch abyss, and now that viper is basically kinda dead and harbor is clear as well as harbor rumored buff its literally inevitable
trvnq [#17]zekken can play neon/jett/raze/sova(yoru maybe?)
n4rrate can play jett/raze/gekko/fade/sova
zellsis can play brim/breach/kj/kayo
johnqt can play cypher/kj/viper
bang can play astra/omen/viper/brim
so I don't see why they would have role issues
well i mean lets say PEARL where you need 2 controllers most of the time, who the fuck is playing the second controller?
kalayav_n [#18]well i mean lets say PEARL where you need 2 controllers most of the time, who the fuck is playing the second controller?
astra and viper are meta on pearl, so bang on astra and johnqt on viper, zellsis can play kj
trvnq [#19]astra and viper are meta on pearl, so bang on astra and johnqt on viper, zellsis can play kj
i dont think viper is going to be meta, harbor just seems like a better choice with the regenerative wall. also teams would just most likely run double senti like vyse and KJ or CYPHER since vyse has a flash.
kalayav_n [#15]johnqt controller flex https://imgur.com/a/gVuxfeh
you right i may be overcooking i resign from having an opinion
kalayav_n [#15]johnqt controller flex https://imgur.com/a/gVuxfeh
you right i may be overcooking i resign from having an opinion
Kevn [#21]you right i may be overcooking i resign from having an opinion
dont ever resign from having an opinion, what makes me love this game is the different approaches bro. hey we will see how sen perform man but always have an opinion bro
kalayav_n [#20]i dont think viper is going to be meta, harbor just seems like a better choice with the regenerative wall. also teams would just most likely run double senti like vyse and KJ or CYPHER since vyse has a flash.
double controller + double senti is crazy talk
kalayav_n [#4]icebox? pearl? these are the maps that 2 controller compositions just clear every other team.
icebox for example, they could run a couple comps
one being:
zekken jett
n4rrate sova
bang omen
johnqt viper
zellsis kayo
or if you want a sentinel, forgo flash initators and rely on omen blind with a comp like
zekken jett
n4rrate sova
bang omen
johnqt viper
zellsis kj
kalayav_n [#25]viper in 2025 is even more crazy talk
how come? even postnerf 2024, she was picked a decent amount esp on icebox
diswaco [#26]icebox for example, they could run a couple comps
one being:
zekken jett
n4rrate sova
bang omen
johnqt viper
zellsis kayoor if you want a sentinel, forgo flash initators and rely on omen blind with a comp like
zekken jett
n4rrate sova
bang omen
johnqt viper
zellsis kj
the first one is straight up never cook again, the second one isn't bad ive seen FPX run omen a lot of icebox and theyve had good success with it. I feel though bang needs to be on viper, johnqt on senti and zellsis needs to learn a new agent or debut a new agent like gekko, harbor or kayo
kalayav_n [#25]viper in 2025 is even more crazy talk
that’s fair i think it’s likely viper isn’t meta but i still think she’ll have a place in the map pool. not like before where it’s arguably playable on every map now she’ll just have her niche on maps like icebox and pearl
kalayav_n [#20]i dont think viper is going to be meta, harbor just seems like a better choice with the regenerative wall. also teams would just most likely run double senti like vyse and KJ or CYPHER since vyse has a flash.
tbf i can't tell what will be the meta as they made the crucial b long change and then vaulted the map for some reason
maybe johnqt runs harbor with bang on astra? I don't see vyse being very popular in pro play but I'd like to be proven wrong as it is a pretty decent agent
diswaco [#27]how come? even postnerf 2024, she was picked a decent amount esp on icebox
icebox is completely different to pearl but teams were kinda forced to pick viper even through the nerf because they 1. didn't want to risk trying new shit and failing(deadlock and sentinels incident). 2. not enough time to prep it so i feel this year we will see no more viper. the only team i actually saw that wasn't shy from transitioning mid season was NAVI when they completely let go of VIPER as well as trying NEON on sunset before her buff.
trvnq [#30]tbf i can't tell what will be the meta as they made the crucial b long change and then vaulted the map for some reason
maybe johnqt runs harbor with bang on astra? I don't see vyse being very popular in pro play but I'd like to be proven wrong as it is a pretty decent agent
johnqt on controller flex
Kevn [#29]that’s fair i think it’s likely viper isn’t meta but i still think she’ll have a place in the map pool. not like before where it’s arguably playable on every map now she’ll just have her niche on maps like icebox and pearl
ofc i think she will have a place on icebox and maybe breeze thats it
kalayav_n [#28]the first one is straight up never cook again, the second one isn't bad ive seen FPX run omen a lot of icebox and theyve had good success with it. I feel though bang needs to be on viper, johnqt on senti and zellsis needs to learn a new agent or debut a new agent like gekko, harbor or kayo
explain logic
why is first comp bad? lots of teams forego sentinels on icebox in favor of playing viper like a psuedo sentinel
bang plays omen a lot and johnqt plays viper a lot - like I just said, viper is more of a psuedo senti so johnqt roles are fine
"zellsis needs to debut a new agent like kayo" you have zero ball knowledge what the fuck it's literally his most played agent
diswaco [#34]explain logic
why is first comp bad? lots of teams forego sentinels on icebox in favor of playing viper like a psuedo sentinel
bang plays omen a lot and johnqt plays viper a lot - like I just said, viper is more of a psuedo senti so johnqt roles are fine
"zellsis needs to debut a new agent like kayo" you have zero ball knowledge what the fuck it's literally his most played agent
what icebox games have you been watching brother? ICEBOX MID is very important, you need a sentinel to at all times watch the split or lurk up into kitchen/A split. its the only map where MID is basically a bomb site and if your opponents have MID you lost a site which in the case of valorant you lose the round.
diswaco [#27]how come? even postnerf 2024, she was picked a decent amount esp on icebox
she has no replacement unfortunately because of her lurking and stalling ability.
I still see her as a pretty viable smoker on specific maps like bind/icebox/pearl even after the nerfs
kalayav_n [#35]what icebox games have you been watching brother? ICEBOX MID is very important, you need a sentinel to at all times watch the split or lurk up into kitchen/A split. its the only map where MID is basically a bomb site and if your opponents have MID you lost a site which in the case of valorant you lose the round.
fair point but a 2-1-2 setup negates most of these issues as well
and what about my other points? why does bang need to be on viper?
trvnq [#36]she has no replacement unfortunately because of her lurking and stalling ability.
I still see her as a pretty viable smoker on specific maps like bind/icebox/pearl even after the nerfs
agreed, def niche but excels in that niche
diswaco [#37]fair point but a 2-1-2 setup negates most of these issues as well
and what about my other points? why does bang need to be on viper?
well thats the thing, in icebox its already hard holding site with 4 players now ur gonna try and hold with 2 players or at max 3? ....
kalayav_n [#9]im just alittle concerned on pearl and icebox, i dont think viper will be on both maps but there will be astra + one more controller so just wondering whos gonna play that
for pearl in old meta teams were running solo astra and with astra getting her fifth star back she may be viable as a solo controller.
NecroticLife [#42]for pearl in old meta teams were running solo astra and with astra getting her fifth star back she may be viable as a solo controller.
that was back in the old days bro, times changed. everyone defaults, everyone knows how to default. astra would need 3 smokes atleast to take map control and the last 2 for site exec, no smoke for anything else which is why regen smokes like a omen with astra might be very good and meta
diswaco [#37]fair point but a 2-1-2 setup negates most of these issues as well
and what about my other points? why does bang need to be on viper?
icebox mid is important but not entirely. Big thing is understanding gaps and basic communication. icebox is a map where you can give mid and focus mains (like push through B or leave an A insert in jail or nest). Although i agree having an open mid gap can suck and is scary to try to rotate but there are other options. OG optic roster played no sent (ran a sage who was B player) and victor would lock down tube and under tube using kay0 utility. so it can be run with no senti, just need good coms and possible reclears. Also having good retake strats.
kalayav_n [#43]that was back in the old days bro, times changed. everyone defaults, everyone knows how to default. astra would need 3 smokes atleast to take map control and the last 2 for site exec, no smoke for anything else which is why regen smokes like a omen with astra might be very good and meta
astra does have regen smokes, i have played her and you can maybe smoke 3-4 times in a round as long as you aren’t using other utility. But I do understand what you are saying about double controller meta. But damn I wish double controller would fall out of favor. Double duelist is so much better because you can play fast executes but with double controller it’s so slow. It’s like watching g2. 😞
kalayav_n [#4]icebox? pearl? these are the maps that 2 controller compositions just clear every other team.
Wdym both icebox and pearl. Icebox is getting removed FOR Pearl
NecroticLife [#45]astra does have regen smokes, i have played her and you can maybe smoke 3-4 times in a round as long as you aren’t using other utility. But I do understand what you are saying about double controller meta. But damn I wish double controller would fall out of favor. Double duelist is so much better because you can play fast executes but with double controller it’s so slow. It’s like watching g2. 😞
? wtf do you have premium astra? MY SMOKES DONT REGENERATE WTF
Tadpole3 [#46]Wdym both icebox and pearl. Icebox is getting removed FOR Pearl
oh word? i havent seen the map replacements, nvm yall jus perma ban pearl
NecroticLife [#49]LMAOOO
?? im confused wtf how do your smokes regenerate, if i use a star that shit is not coming back.
kalayav_n [#50]?? im confused wtf how do your smokes regenerate, if i use a star that shit is not coming back.
so the actual smoke ability regenerates but the stars don’t if you have 5 stars you can technically use all 5 to smoke because the smokes regenerate
NecroticLife [#51]so the actual smoke ability regenerates but the stars don’t if you have 5 stars you can technically use all 5 to smoke because the smokes regenerate
.. so that shit doesnt regenerate.. i was lowkey thinking how tf does this guy have regenerative stars
kalayav_n [#52].. so that shit doesnt regenerate.. i was lowkey thinking how tf does this guy have regenerative stars
LMAOO bro u funny asf
NecroticLife [#53]LMAOO bro u funny asf
sob but yeah astra single controll not viable in a big map like pearl
Tadpole3 [#46]Wdym both icebox and pearl. Icebox is getting removed FOR Pearl
icebox is getting removed for pearl oh rip lmfao, i thought it was staying. but still the concept exists even on pearl cause how big of a map it is. Usually rotating throguh spawn is bad cause its too long. the art rotate is better as its faster. So SEN could ban the map cause of the role stuff but its not hard to learn new roles esp now in off season.
kalayav_n [#54]sob but yeah astra single controll not viable in a big map like pearl
bro wait heretics were running solo astra pre buff on abyss and abyss is bigger than pearl. I think the reason astra would excel on pearl because of the limitless smokes anywhere on the map
franc [#55]icebox is getting removed for pearl oh rip lmfao, i thought it was staying. but still the concept exists even on pearl cause how big of a map it is. Usually rotating throguh spawn is bad cause its too long. the art rotate is better as its faster. So SEN could ban the map cause of the role stuff but its not hard to learn new roles esp now in off season.
agreed, hopefully wanna see zellsis on new agents to prove my hating ass wrong cuz he is single handedly dragging them down 🔥
NecroticLife [#56]bro wait heretics were running solo astra pre buff on abyss and abyss is bigger than pearl. I think the reason astra would excel on pearl because of the limitless smokes anywhere on the map
but they are extremely dogshit on abyss lol, ur proving my point because they got embarrassed each time they faced a team with regen smokes or 2 controllers on ABYSS. a LOSS to DRX, LEV, EDG and lost about 11 rounds in a row to FNC on defense(they shoulda lost the map but fnc trolled defense side)
kalayav_n [#4]icebox? pearl? these are the maps that 2 controller compositions just clear every other team.
Icebox
Sova - zekken
Gekko - N4RRATE (he can also play Jett ig but I really like the G2 comp)
Harbor - johnqt
Viper - bang
Killjoy - Zellsis
Pearl (no clue what the meta's gonna be, so I'm just gonna throw something very random out there)
Yoru - N4RRATE
Sova - zekken
Skye - johnqt
Astra - bang
Killjoy - Zellsis
cloudberry [#59]Icebox
Sova - zekken
Gekko - N4RRATE (he can also play Jett ig but I really like the G2 comp)
Harbor - johnqt
Viper - bang
Killjoy - ZellsisPearl (no clue what the meta's gonna be, so I'm just gonna throw something very random out there)
Yoru - N4RRATE
Sova - zekken
Skye - johnqt
Astra - bang
Killjoy - Zellsis
keep in mind G2 runs harbor which makes gekko actually 50x better
sussybaka [#69]100t ain't losing to sentiluls, not even once after they have bang as their double agent. that is minus one to the list of teams that need to be taken care of, the future is bright and just keep getting brighter i fear 😴
kalayav_n [#68]idk man johnqt on harbor... aight man
I mean... if you don't like that, then here's a more boring Ascent-meta-esque comp:
Jett - N4RRATE
Sova - zekken
KAY/O - Zellsis
Viper - bang
Killjoy - johnqt
cloudberry [#71]I mean... if you don't like that, then here's a more boring Ascent-meta-esque comp:
Jett - N4RRATE
Sova - zekken
KAY/O - Zellsis
Viper - bang
Killjoy - johnqt
we getting abused with this one 🔥 , i like the comp but i think zellsis should play harbor
kalayav_n [#72]we getting abused with this one 🔥 , i like the comp but i think zellsis should play harbor
Icebox is out of rotation so at the end of the day who the heck cares what they'd run lmao
cloudberry [#73]Icebox is out of rotation so at the end of the day who the heck cares what they'd run lmao
true
cloudberry [#65]
this is legitimately the only map i have ever seen them win on breeze they should’ve kept this comp tbh
sideshowsbaldhead [#75]this is legitimately the only map i have ever seen them win on breeze they should’ve kept this comp tbh
There are two main reasons why they didn't
- Halls reopened
- Skye got nerfed
franc [#44]icebox mid is important but not entirely. Big thing is understanding gaps and basic communication. icebox is a map where you can give mid and focus mains (like push through B or leave an A insert in jail or nest). Although i agree having an open mid gap can suck and is scary to try to rotate but there are other options. OG optic roster played no sent (ran a sage who was B player) and victor would lock down tube and under tube using kay0 utility. so it can be run with no senti, just need good coms and possible reclears. Also having good retake strats.
facts
kalayav_n [#40]well thats the thing, in icebox its already hard holding site with 4 players now ur gonna try and hold with 2 players or at max 3? ....
more of a site design issue no? you're gonna get run down on A site no matter what lol
diswaco [#78]more of a site design issue no? you're gonna get run down on A site no matter what lol
so what do you think is the smartest thing to do as a coach? have a senti with util watching mid while ur senti player fast rotates or have a one player stay at mid watching whole time while the rest of your team gets massacred and has no chance of holding a site?
kalayav_n [#79]so what do you think is the smartest thing to do as a coach? have a senti with util watching mid while ur senti player fast rotates or have a one player stay at mid watching whole time while the rest of your team gets massacred and has no chance of holding a site?
why are you spelling out a 2 man site hold like some kind of death sentence? obv some kind of vision strikers level execute would fuck them but in that case you'd likely just anti them and play for retake anyhow no?
kalayav_n [#4]icebox? pearl? these are the maps that 2 controller compositions just clear every other team.
Icebox:
Jett - N4RRATE
Sova - Zekken
Viper - Bang
Killjoy - johnqt
Harbor - Zellsis
simple
iTzJ4son [#82]Icebox:
Jett - N4RRATE
Sova - Zekken
Viper - Bang
Killjoy - johnqt
Harbor - Zellsissimple
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM9wISt13DA
zellsis on harbor
diswaco [#34]explain logic
why is first comp bad? lots of teams forego sentinels on icebox in favor of playing viper like a psuedo sentinel
bang plays omen a lot and johnqt plays viper a lot - like I just said, viper is more of a psuedo senti so johnqt roles are fine
"zellsis needs to debut a new agent like kayo" you have zero ball knowledge what the fuck it's literally his most played agent
bro what the fuck am i reading
kj might be the most important agent on icebox
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