Is Tier 2 Val profitable?

If you are a small organization, lets say for example Fluffy aimers and SaD. Do you actually profit from playing in challengers and not able to qualify for Ascension? Other bigger orgs might have a better time not qualifying to Ascension but they actually have a solid and bigger fan base comparing to the other smaller organizations (For example MxS vs FAIM. Both are teams that didnt qualify to Ascension but we know that Moist will def survive longer because they have solid fan bases and stable sources of funding from huge CC).
Then the players, I doubt players gets paid enough in Challenger/ Ascension teams. Im not sure about the exact amount but I would expect it to be less than a 9/5 job, which makes sense in some perspectives but not enough funds coming to the orgs caused unstable commitments of tier 2 pros in the scene. I would acc say that nitr0 left T2 val and transitioned back to CS because 1. his team is not doing well. 2. he knows theres little future in Tier 2 val. 3. It is just not worth ur time and commitment/ ur results wont match up with ur expectations and hard work.

Im really curious on what u guys thought of the situation

tier 1 orgs barely profit if not go negative one hill i will always die on is i genuinely think that esports is a money laundering scheme cause most if not all orgs lose money in gaming

Is there any tier 2 get profit on any game ?
I swear to god I never seen tier 2 as make profit unless ur part of the region that game is big community
Example:
league : T2 Korea
CS : EU america
Take a note CS they always make decisions that is always second jobs not profit job
What LEO want is T2 same as T2 football (I know it's dream it's really hard) but its depends on community we make

jixk [#2]

tier 1 orgs barely profit if not go negative one hill i will always die on is i genuinely think that esports is a money laundering scheme cause most if not all orgs lose money in gaming

Its def getting better and better

95% of the orgs which are currently in any esports scene are working in a minus, even the big ones

hell no it ain't

simo98 [#3]

Is there any tier 2 get profit on any game ?
I swear to god I never seen tier 2 as make profit unless ur part of the region that game is big community
Example:
league : T2 Korea
CS : EU america
Take a note CS they always make decisions that is always second jobs not profit job
What LEO want is T2 same as T2 football (I know it's dream it's really hard) but its depends on community we make

Idk abt CS or LOL but tier 2 scene looks bad

Nef0r0 [#5]

95% of the orgs which are currently in any esports scene are working in a minus, even the big ones

So how are they still holding up?

It is if you win and dont pay anyone

H3ENnZ [#8]

So how are they still holding up?

investments, holdings, sponsorships covering the most expensive parts. afaik some sports clubs are also in debt (like barca, but that's taken to the extreme). Biggest recent example in Esports was Faze. They got bought by Gamesquare, a holding, after their shares went to shit. Basically the investors treat it as a long term investment, nominally the team grows, gets more exposure and then you profit

Nef0r0 [#10]

investments, holdings, sponsorships covering the most expensive parts. afaik some sports clubs are also in debt (like barca, but that's taken to the extreme). Biggest recent example in Esports was Faze. They got bought by Gamesquare, a holding, after their shares went to shit. Basically the investors treat it as a long term investment, nominally the team grows, gets more exposure and then you profit

But if im not mistaken isnt Barca a huge football club? I might be wrong bc i dont watch soccer but if they are a sub department from the club wont they have lots funds?

Nef0r0 [#10]

investments, holdings, sponsorships covering the most expensive parts. afaik some sports clubs are also in debt (like barca, but that's taken to the extreme). Biggest recent example in Esports was Faze. They got bought by Gamesquare, a holding, after their shares went to shit. Basically the investors treat it as a long term investment, nominally the team grows, gets more exposure and then you profit

I bet this guy with Canadian flag doesn't know c9 still got bankrupt even with valorant money

H3ENnZ [#11]

But if im not mistaken isnt Barca a huge football club? I might be wrong bc i dont watch soccer but if they are a sub department from the club wont they have lots funds?

Do u know the guard the one owning is part of arsenal ????

H3ENnZ [#11]

But if im not mistaken isnt Barca a huge football club? I might be wrong bc i dont watch soccer but if they are a sub department from the club wont they have lots funds?

They are a huge football club, that is correct. Most Clubs you see in European sports operate under some debt. In fact only FOUR football clubs in europe have no debt, 3 out of which are owned by owners of small countries ( like qatar, or uae) or a holding (like chelsea). It's all about a long term plan. however, when you are in the tier 2 , you cannot build that long term plan. A club like navi or fnatic or g2 can easily pay off loans in case they needed them. an org like Apeks or Galorys might get rolled with it

Nef0r0 [#14]

They are a huge football club, that is correct. Most Clubs you see in European sports operate under some debt. In fact only FOUR football clubs in europe have no debt, 3 out of which are owned by owners of small countries ( like qatar, or uae) or a holding (like chelsea). It's all about a long term plan. however, when you are in the tier 2 , you cannot build that long term plan. A club like navi or fnatic or g2 can easily pay off loans in case they needed them. an org like Apeks or Galorys might get rolled with it

Thank u for ur clarifications now it all makes sense

simo98 [#12]

I bet this guy with Canadian flag doesn't know c9 still got bankrupt even with valorant money

well FaZe literally needed new owners and sentinels got a 3.8mil$ injection just to exist

simo98 [#13]

Do u know the guard the one owning is part of arsenal ????

Grammar

H3ENnZ [#17]

Grammar

English is not my first language

H3ENnZ [#17]

Grammar

basically Stan Kroenke who owns Denver Nuggets Colorado Avalanche and Los Angeles Rams and Arsenal also owned the Guard

simo98 [#18]

English is not my first language

Apologies but what were u trying to say

jixk [#2]

tier 1 orgs barely profit if not go negative one hill i will always die on is i genuinely think that esports is a money laundering scheme cause most if not all orgs lose money in gaming

this isn’t true lmao, orgs just didn’t make money year 1 because there were no cosmetics, tier 1 teams in League and CS are making bank

nah all NA orgs are broke. i bet you there isnt a single NA org that is currently making profit from valorant

Of course not

Short answer, No, I'd be surprised if T1 orgs are making any sort of profit (I think some are) T2 is a struggle like you said :D

H3ENnZ [#11]

But if im not mistaken isnt Barca a huge football club? I might be wrong bc i dont watch soccer but if they are a sub department from the club wont they have lots funds?

They'll have lots of funds, but it all runs back to a spreadsheet for whoever owns Barca. These companies/teams don't invest in eSports because they're passionate about it, they invest because they see it as a money-making opportunity. If the eSports division is constantly running at a negative, they'll just stop working in this market. Barca as a company as a whole is still making profit (most likely) but the eSports division's balance is likely negative.

Prob not, in one stream LEV CEO mentioned that even though their bundle was the 2nd best selling one in Americas (just under SEN) and getting all the Champions bundle money from making Shanghai they were just able to break even

I can't imagine how bad it went for orgs like NRG with such big names and high salaries when they couldn't make Champs and their bundle didn't sell that well. Though I guess they are just fine since they are pretty big in other games already so I don't think it is that detrimental for the org. But I imagine lots of orgs have to rely on 'alright' players or rookies to play in order to maintain low salaries. Otherwise I'd imagine they'd lose a ton of money

AlexSMTx [#26]

Prob not, in one stream LEV CEO mentioned that even though their bundle was the 2nd best selling one in Americas (just under SEN) and getting all the Champions bundle money from making Shanghai they were just able to break even

I can't imagine how bad it went for orgs like NRG with such big names and high salaries when they couldn't make Champs and their bundle didn't sell that well. Though I guess they are just fine since they are pretty big in other games already so I don't think it is that detrimental for the org. But I imagine lots of orgs have to rely on 'alright' players or rookies to play in order to maintain low salaries. Otherwise I'd imagine they'd lose a ton of money

LEV are probably paying aspas a lot of money though.
But the general point is true.

it is not. Valorant needs an organisation like ESL to save the scene

no because esports is basically a passion project for orgs