Any map where tenz is forced to be an actual support and cannot run it down with zekken. Icebox, Breeze and Ascent all rely too heavily on zekken and the op
0
Sen Weakness
posted in
General Discussion
Comments:
Threaded
Linear
laifu [#4]tenz can just run kayo all good
he has a good kay o, but he cant run in with kay o because np tp to quickly get away, and kay o provides more value setting others up, but without tenz on omen, he only has zekken to aggressively set up
laifu [#4]tenz can just run kayo all good
kayo requires a lot of skill which t0nz doesn't have clearly. look at great kayo support players like ethan or qraxs their util usage is perfect
AstroGalaxy [#8]they almsot beat loud on icebox so eh
True but Loud hasnt played it in a while too. But then what about ascent or breeze?
WhoseTao [#9]True but Loud hasnt played it in a while too. But then what about ascent or breeze?
loud destroyed eg on it though
justo [#12]I think considering Icebox was their perma veto it looked quite decent. Not really good but its a map they can work on and get potentially some wins on. Thier split and lotus looks fantastic. They need to work on their bind to get it back to world class
Exactly this
moshimoshiman24 [#10]i would say their biggest weakness is probably their map pool. I would say they have 2 maps in sunset and split where they r really good at. The rest of the maps they r very beatable.
their map pool isn't bad imo, sunset/split/lotus looks good. icebox we almost beat loud(choked on pistol rounds), but yeah bind/breeze doesn't look like one of their bests
swvyboi1 [#14]their map pool isn't bad imo, sunset/split/lotus looks good. icebox we almost beat loud(choked on pistol rounds), but yeah bind/breeze doesn't look like one of their bests
for icebox the reason y i dont think they were good on is bc even tho they played loud close, i also dont think loud is good on it(they moslty just anti eg on it which made them look better than they were). I would say its more of a middle map for sen. For lotus they beat a 100t with a chamber and loud with a pheonix no sentinel which i dont think is that impressive also. I would say its also a middle map. Bind I think they r pretty good at its just that playing yoru is so 1 dimensional and eventually u run out of ideas with it (kind of similar to optic and neon and how it eventually ran out of steam). Split and sunset very good like i dont c a team beating them on it unless they forget how to shoot for a day. Breeze is meh. Ascent pls dont play at ascent, doubt they can fix it in time for it (hate to say it but Tenz util on the map is pretty bad, either throwing smokes late or throwing not the most ideal ones)
moshimoshiman24 [#15]for icebox the reason y i dont think they were good on is bc even tho they played loud close, i also dont think loud is good on it(they moslty just anti eg on it which made them look better than they were). I would say its more of a middle map for sen. For lotus they beat a 100t with a chamber and loud with a pheonix no sentinel which i dont think is that impressive also. I would say its also a middle map. Bind I think they r pretty good at its just that playing yoru is so 1 dimensional and eventually u run out of ideas with it (kind of similar to optic and neon and how it eventually ran out of steam). Split and sunset very good like i dont c a team beating them on it unless they forget how to shoot for a day. Breeze is meh. Ascent pls dont play at ascent, doubt they can fix it in time for it (hate to say it but Tenz util on the map is pretty bad, either throwing smokes late or throwing not the most ideal ones)
Loud is very good on icebox, 11x3 against fnatic and they also beat the best icebox at the time iirc leviatan.
I dont think sen is that good on icebox though, i think loud choked so many rounds and it looked like they just forgot how to play for a while
messithegoat [#2]tenz reyna icebox when
i said it when i first saw tenz, this is his world. and we're just living in it
loloscum [#18]Loud is very good on icebox, 11x3 against fnatic and they also beat the best icebox at the time iirc leviatan.
I dont think sen is that good on icebox though, i think loud choked so many rounds and it looked like they just forgot how to play for a while
imma b real i think basically every team is mid or bad at icebox just bc the map is crap. istg every pro game i watch every map of it for kick off was just a clown fiesta circus with every game being close. probably only fnatic is good on it.
moshimoshiman24 [#20]imma b real i think basically every team is mid or bad at icebox just bc the map is crap. istg every pro game i watch every map of it for kick off was just a clown fiesta circus with every game being close. probably only fnatic is good on it.
Yea the map is so ass i do agree, if sentinels manages to read a lil better on icebox i think they'll be good at it, they lost to loud because no one ever defended wingman and they just overheated (understandable they were 2-0 in the series) and that cost them the map.
Icebox in general is just a bad map, literally a retake simulator, spam shitfest
loloscum [#21]Yea the map is so ass i do agree, if sentinels manages to read a lil better on icebox i think they'll be good at it, they lost to loud because no one ever defended wingman and they just overheated (understandable they were 2-0 in the series) and that cost them the map.
Icebox in general is just a bad map, literally a retake simulator, spam shitfest
i just didnt like sen on that map bc i felt that they didnt really outplay loud and more of loud throwing rounds that made it closer than it actually was.
map pool and off Raze comps are their big issues. SEN won 1 map with Jett out of 6 this Kick Off, with zekken in particular tanking his stats with her https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1923/champions-tour-2024-americas-kickoff?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=jett
They rely too much on their Raze comps that'll probably get exposed at some point. Idk exactly why its like that but SEN just feel more comfortable and definitely more coordinated with their Raze aggression. NRG had the same problem with their reliance on Jett OP too but that's a much easier issue to deal with ngl. Maybe TH's Neon shit is already a counter they cooked up.
WhoseTao [#6]run a yoru instead of kay o and they win lmao
yoru is pretty much objectively worse in terms of meta and game-plan. could probably get a few gimmicky wins with it though.
moshimoshiman24 [#10]i would say their biggest weakness is probably their map pool. I would say they have 2 maps in sunset and split where they r really good at. The rest of the maps they r very beatable.
I think they can have a really good map pool.They are good on lotus,sunset and split.Their bind used to be really good but they stopped focusing on it probably.They work on that and can get it back to how it was.Now between breeze,icebox and ascent.I'd say their weakest map is ascent and breeze.But I think they can work on their icebox.
cartixuzi [#23]map pool and off Raze comps are their big issues. SEN won 1 map with Jett out of 6 this Kick Off, with zekken in particular tanking his stats with her https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1923/champions-tour-2024-americas-kickoff?exclude=&min_rounds=0&agent=jett
They rely too much on their Raze comps that'll probably get exposed at some point. Idk exactly why its like that but SEN just feel more comfortable and definitely more coordinated with their Raze aggression. NRG had the same problem with their reliance on Jett OP too but that's a much easier issue to deal with ngl. Maybe TH's Neon shit is already a counter they cooked up.
Yeah with raze it seems more teamwork is at play.Jett is more of a solo type agent,where the player shines,but sen seems more of a teamwork type team and its a lot easier to do w raze since raze has good utility for team play.So it'd make sense in that case.Maybe they can figure out a way to work with jett,but ur right on the jett maps it feels like they are missing something.Maybe zekken needs to be more aggressive.
Ausam [#29]I think they can have a really good map pool.They are good on lotus,sunset and split.Their bind used to be really good but they stopped focusing on it probably.They work on that and can get it back to how it was.Now between breeze,icebox and ascent.I'd say their weakest map is ascent and breeze.But I think they can work on their icebox.
heres how i c their maps
S: split sunset (i dont really c anyone beating them currently on it unless another team is also S tier or they forget how to shoot)
A: bind (good just that its beatable when sen runs out of ideas with the yoru)
B: lotus (serviceable but need to c more bc they beat 100t who ran a chamber and looked dog on the map and loud who ran a pheonix no sentinel which is even more troll which took about 5 1v1s even tho the scoreline didnt show it)
C:Icebox (even tho they played loud close, loud also didnt look too good on it with loud mostly throwing rounds and not sen outplaying loud. it was basically mid vs mid but I blame this mostly to the map being doggy)
D:Breeze (i thinks theres the most potential for them on this map or lotus improve. didnt look good but the map could suit their players)
F: Ascent (Never play this map. dont have enough time to fix it.)
just noticed this now, looks like they r best on raze maps and suck on jett maps so kind of an interesting trend . if they can get 1 more map to A tier, i think their map pool is good
Lucrix [#19]i said it when i first saw tenz, this is his world. and we're just living in it
erm its actually "called tenz" 🤓☝
Cromawarrior48 [#7]kayo requires a lot of skill which t0nz doesn't have clearly. look at great kayo support players like ethan or qraxs their util usage is perfect
kayo requires a lot of skill which t0nz doesn't have clearly. look at great kayo support players like ethan or qraxs their util usage is perfect
Cromawarrior48 [#7]kayo requires a lot of skill which t0nz doesn't have clearly. look at great kayo support players like ethan or qraxs their util usage is perfect
kayo requires a lot of skill which t0nz doesn't have clearly. look at great kayo support players like ethan or qraxs their util usage is perfect
moshimoshiman24 [#32]heres how i c their maps
S: split sunset (i dont really c anyone beating them currently on it unless another team is also S tier or they forget how to shoot)
A: bind (good just that its beatable when sen runs out of ideas with the yoru)
B: lotus (serviceable but need to c more bc they beat 100t who ran a chamber and looked dog on the map and loud who ran a pheonix no sentinel which is even more troll which took about 5 1v1s even tho the scoreline didnt show it)
C:Icebox (even tho they played loud close, loud also didnt look too good on it with loud mostly throwing rounds and not sen outplaying loud. it was basically mid vs mid but I blame this mostly to the map being doggy)
D:Breeze (i thinks theres the most potential for them on this map or lotus improve. didnt look good but the map could suit their players)
F: Ascent (Never play this map. dont have enough time to fix it.)
just noticed this now, looks like they r best on raze maps and suck on jett maps so kind of an interesting trend . if they can get 1 more map to A tier, i think their map pool is good
yea i think they can get their bind back to s tier,and bring lotus to A.They should be good.
their biggest weakness is that they are too handsome, smart, and talented.
https://www.girlsaskguys.com/guys-behavior/a53098-the-curse-of-being-handsome
Ausam [#36]yea i think they can get their bind back to s tier,and bring lotus to A.They should be good.
prayge
WhoseTao [#9]True but Loud hasnt played it in a while too. But then what about ascent or breeze?
SEN threw a lot of rounds and the gekko didn't really pay off. I think they would have won with sova or sage.
ive thought this and also tried to tell it to fns and shahz on stream that idk why Sen are not good on classic maps like Haven Ascent Breeze
Think about OG SEN and they used to win every match on these maps
But now Sen have terrible record on these 3 maps specifically
people always reply to me that "hey bro stfu meta has changed and players have changed you dumbass" but come on guys....the meta has changed for everyonee lmao
and we have better players now - we have so much experience and brain on the team now
why isn't SEN adapting to this new meta while other teams like FNC can who lost to SEN on Haven itself
and now 1 problem i see is BIND....bc SEN is running the same comp and same strat since last years LCQ
like tenz go showers control - get orb - tp back and other teams are not dumb they obv anti strat and know what to do. So i'd be happy if SEN management works on Ascent breeze and think more creatively for Bind
SaltyMcNulty [#41]SEN threw a lot of rounds and the gekko didn't really pay off. I think they would have won with sova or sage.
ikr gekko barely had any impact in both halfs, the wingman just got broken half the time whenever they tried to plant and they lost spike half the time, running tenz on harbor and making him prove himself on it might be the play here icl
senplswin [#42]ive thought this and also tried to tell it to fns and shahz on stream that idk why Sen are not good on classic maps like Haven Ascent Breeze
Think about OG SEN and they used to win every match on these maps
But now Sen have terrible record on these 3 maps specifically
people always reply to me that "hey bro stfu meta has changed and players have changed you dumbass" but come on guys....the meta has changed for everyonee lmao
and we have better players now - we have so much experience and brain on the team now
why isn't SEN adapting to this new meta while other teams like FNC can who lost to SEN on Haven itselfand now 1 problem i see is BIND....bc SEN is running the same comp and same strat since last years LCQ
like tenz go showers control - get orb - tp back and other teams are not dumb they obv anti strat and know what to do. So i'd be happy if SEN management works on Ascent breeze and think more creatively for Bind
Bind imo is fine, but the players seem to relax and unable to adapt right now, which will be fixed with time because the yoru comp is surprisingly flexible in the way they play.
Now for OG maps. The issues prior to johnqt were all midrounding, as every single igl failed to do that, and just like shaz, dephh, they could not adapt mid game. John can do that, but the issue is that sens main opper has been moved to a smokes/flashes role, so until zekken is able to be really good and consistent with the op, they will struggle on ascent, breeze and even haven
Cromawarrior48 [#7]kayo requires a lot of skill which t0nz doesn't have clearly. look at great kayo support players like ethan or qraxs their util usage is perfect
Bro did NOT watch a single game where tenz played kayo
WhoseTao [#6]run a yoru instead of kay o and they win lmao
It’s Icebox. They don’t need a duelist.
Put Zekken on Sova and run triple initiator, moving the Op around on defense so teams can’t make hard reads based off seeing utility.
Discord