will be cheering for u lil bro
everyone saying c9 is mid, didnt u guys say the same when they signed jakee and runi ? :DD watch them destroy
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C9 oxy
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OXY arguably has more merit backing him than jakee or runi did.
Losing leaf was a tragedy but OXY could be enough to fill his shoes; it's just a gamble if he can maintain form doing so though.
I don't think this roster will be terrible but I don't think they'll be that good either, especially with vanity igling
Nachtel [#2]OXY arguably has more merit backing him than jakee or runi did.
Losing leaf was a tragedy but OXY could be enough to fill his shoes; it's just a gamble if he can maintain form doing so though.
I don't think this roster will be terrible but I don't think they'll be that good either, especially with vanity igling
Vanity is extremely underrated
everyone's acting like he's dogshit but he's really not that bad
Danny [#3]Vanity is extremely underrated
everyone's acting like he's dogshit but he's really not that bad
He's not dogshit, but he's not disciplined enough to lead a masters worthy team imo. His strats are way too improvised at times.
He's really good at riding momentum though
Danny [#3]Vanity is extremely underrated
everyone's acting like he's dogshit but he's really not that bad
He's not that bad, but Shahz or flyuh would've been a lot better for C9, if they could've gotten either.
StutterSt3p [#5]He's not that bad, but Shahz or flyuh would've been a lot better for C9, if they could've gotten either.
Shahz would NOT have been a lot better for C9
Danny [#6]Shahz would NOT have been a lot better for C9
Bruh what? Shahz > Vanity would make that team a lot better. For starters, Shahz is a far better player than Vanity. Secondly, C9 needs a good Sova player which I'm not sure they have. Also, Shahz already has chemistry with wippie, OXY, and Immi, making it easier to integrate into C9. And in terms of IGLing, what exactly has Vanity done as an IGL? At least Shahz has won a trophy as an IGL.
StutterSt3p [#7]Bruh what? Shahz > Vanity would make that team a lot better. For starters, Shahz is a far better player than Vanity. Secondly, C9 needs a good Sova player which I'm not sure they have. Also, Shahz already has chemistry with wippie, OXY, and Immi, making it easier to integrate into C9. And in terms of IGLing, what exactly has Vanity done as an IGL? At least Shahz has won a trophy as an IGL.
Vanity > Shahz
Sova not meta anymore
Vanity literally qual'd for an international event with wippie and immi
and in terms of IGL Vanity has been far superior after the first year of valorant
Danny [#8]Vanity > Shahz
Sova not meta anymore
Vanity literally qual'd for an international event with wippie and immi
and in terms of IGL Vanity has been far superior after the first year of valorant
Bruh there's no way you actually think Vanity is a better player than Shahz. Like all jokes aside, Shahz is fucking miles better mechanically than Vanity. And even if Sova isn't hard meta, he's always still useful, like on Ascent or Haven. I did lowkey forget that he played with wippie and Immi though, but it still doesn't change the fact Vanity's teams since 2022 have been mid.
At least, Shahz has some excuses considering SEN legit fell apart during stage 2 of last year. Literally, vanity is so mid it's crazy, and people want to hate on Shahz like he isn't better than both stellar, and vanity, if not other IGLs too.
StutterSt3p [#9]Bruh there's no way you actually think Vanity is a better player than Shahz. Like all jokes aside, Shahz is fucking miles better mechanically than Vanity. And even if Sova isn't hard meta, he's always still useful, like on Ascent or Haven. I did lowkey forget that he played with wippie and Immi though, but it still doesn't change the fact Vanity's teams since 2022 have been mid.
At least, Shahz has some excuses considering SEN legit fell apart during stage 2 of last year. Literally, vanity is so mid it's crazy, and people want to hate on Shahz like he isn't better than both stellar, and vanity, if not other IGLs too.
I think Vanity is better as IGL, I'm not worried about mechanical.
Look at what happened last time Shahz played with OXY, immi, and Wippie💀
https://www.vlr.gg/238656/g2-disband-shahzam-moves-to-content-creation
Vanity clears so hard it's crazy
Danny [#10]I think Vanity is better as IGL, I'm not worried about mechanical.
Look at what happened last time Shahz played with OXY, immi, and Wippie💀
https://www.vlr.gg/238656/g2-disband-shahzam-moves-to-content-creation
Vanity clears so hard it's crazy
https://www.vlr.gg/212532/shopify-rebellion-vs-g2-esports-challengers-league-north-america-lr1
Bro please, I beg that you use your brain.
Zeron [#12]i believe in oxy just not wippie just yet
Same, but we'll see how it goes, I trust Immi to make them great tho
StutterSt3p [#11]https://www.vlr.gg/212532/shopify-rebellion-vs-g2-esports-challengers-league-north-america-lr1
Bro please, I beg that you use your brain.
Shopify Rebellion was garbage well before Vanity joined
he's the only reason they got as many wins as they did
your recency bias is insane. That singular game doesn't change a thing
Danny [#14]Shopify Rebellion was garbage well before Vanity joined
he's the only reason they got as many wins as they did
your recency bias is insane. That singular game doesn't change a thing
Being a better IGL than dazzle is not that much of an accomplishment, plus vanity is never going to be able to be the best player in a lobby. Shahz just brings so much more firepower, and let's be real, the teams with better depth tend to do better. Also, Shahz was legit even better than Oxy over the course of the challengers year, like give it up. Let me know when vanity is ever the best player on his team.
StutterSt3p [#15]Being a better IGL than dazzle is not that much of an accomplishment, plus vanity is never going to be able to be the best player in a lobby. Shahz just brings so much more firepower, and let's be real, the teams with better depth tend to do better. Also, Shahz was legit even better than Oxy over the course of the challengers year, like give it up. Let me know when vanity is ever the best player on his team.
Shahz failing to use OXY and just setting himself up for kills is why G2 was so bad. Your IGL should set up your team, not the other way around
Teams with better depth don't tend to do better, the 2 best IGL's in the game, FNS and Boaster are often the worst rated on their team
Also, using Shopify vs G2 as reasoning shahz is better is stupid, with that logic Trick, babybay, fiziq, and mitch are better igls than shahz
Danny [#16]Shahz failing to use OXY and just setting himself up for kills is why G2 was so bad. Your IGL should set up your team, not the other way around
Teams with better depth don't tend to do better, the 2 best IGL's in the game, FNS and Boaster are often the worst rated on their team
Also, using Shopify vs G2 as reasoning shahz is better is stupid, with that logic Trick, babybay, fiziq, and mitch are better igls than shahz
So, it's shahz's fault OXY underperformed in games? Also, it's not that G2 was setting Shahz up for kills, it's, hear me out...Shahz is good at aiming. He can just win fights. Simple as that. And I'm not using just that one game as my reasoning, it's just an example, but these are the stats for the whole year:
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1458/challengers-league-north-america
Also, teams with better depth absolutely do better, most often. FNC, PRX, EG, LOUD, DRX, NAVI/FPX, EDG, etc. All these teams at their peak were so good in part because of depth, because players on their team could win them rounds if needed. Ofc not all teams with good depth will be good like SEN from last year, but teams like KC, or T1 where they tend to rely on a couple of players to win, tend to underperform.
(Boaster had an insanely stacked team let's be real, an FNS has also had very deep teams)
Tbh this argument is dumb asf because neither Shahz nor vanity has done anything of note since 2021, and if both are truly mid at best, in terms of IGLing, I'll take the one who can win me rounds/games.
StutterSt3p [#17]So, it's shahz's fault OXY underperformed in games? Also, it's not that G2 was setting Shahz up for kills, it's, hear me out...Shahz is good at aiming. He can just win fights. Simple as that. And I'm not using just that one game as my reasoning, it's just an example, but these are the stats for the whole year:
https://www.vlr.gg/event/stats/1458/challengers-league-north-america
Also, teams with better depth absolutely do better, most often. FNC, PRX, EG, LOUD, DRX, NAVI/FPX, EDG, etc. All these teams at their peak were so good in part because of depth, because players on their team could win them rounds if needed. Ofc not all teams with good depth will be good like SEN from last year, but teams like KC, or T1 where they tend to rely on a couple of players to win, tend to underperform.
(Boaster had an insanely stacked team let's be real, an FNS has also had very deep teams)Tbh this argument is dumb asf because neither Shahz nor vanity has done anything of note since 2021, and if both are truly mid at best, in terms of IGLing, I'll take the one who can win me rounds/games.
You're saying that teams need a fragging IGL and bringing up FNC and NAVI?????????????????????????
yes bro for sure Ange1 best fragging igl
Danny [#8]Vanity > Shahz
Sova not meta anymore
Vanity literally qual'd for an international event with wippie and immi
and in terms of IGL Vanity has been far superior after the first year of valorant
blud just said sova isnt meta like hes not used on 5/7 maps in rotation rn
Shawn23 [#21]blud just said sova isnt meta like hes not used on 5/7 maps in rotation rn
The only maps where having a Sova is mostly necessary are Breeze and Ascent(even Ascent C9 has been successful running Skye solo initiator)
You don't need Sova on any other map
Danny [#20]You're saying that teams need a fragging IGL and bringing up FNC and NAVI?????????????????????????
yes bro for sure Ange1 best fragging igl
I never said anything about fragging IGLs specifically, the point was just about firepower overall. The firepower of FNC and NAVI is undeniable, and in their cases, the IGL is the weak link mechanically.
My other point is that one big upside to Shahz is that on most teams, not only will he not be the weak link mechanically, but he could be one of the better players on that team, which is something that can't be said for a lot of top-tier IGLs.
Danny [#20]You're saying that teams need a fragging IGL and bringing up FNC and NAVI?????????????????????????
yes bro for sure Ange1 best fragging igl
Bro haven't seen angel fragging
StutterSt3p [#23]I never said anything about fragging IGLs specifically, the point was just about firepower overall. The firepower of FNC and NAVI is undeniable, and in their cases, the IGL is the weak link mechanically.
My other point is that one big upside to Shahz is that on most teams, not only will he not be the weak link mechanically, but he could be one of the better players on that team, which is something that can't be said for a lot of top-tier IGLs.
I think that C9 will have depth with or without Shahzam, and that a good IGL is far more important than someone who went 1/8 in second split ascension with almost the same roster but had better stats
Danny [#26]I think that C9 will have depth with or without Shahzam, and that a good IGL is far more important than someone who went 1/8 in second split ascension with almost the same roster but had better stats
Eh, they have some talent, but wippie and vanity are kinda mid. Shahz would give them a massive upgrade in firepower, and is a good IGL, lol.
StutterSt3p [#27]Eh, they have some talent, but wippie and vanity are kinda mid. Shahz would give them a massive upgrade in firepower, and is a good IGL, lol.
shahz is a horrible IGL
Danny [#28]shahz is a horrible IGL
Idk what player you've been watching but it ain't Shahz. And if you genuinely think there's that much of a gap between Shahz and vanity in terms of IGLing, then idk what to say lol.
StutterSt3p [#29]Idk what player you've been watching but it ain't Shahz. And if you genuinely think there's that much of a gap between Shahz and vanity in terms of IGLing, then idk what to say lol.
lost 8/9 of his most recent G2 games, disbanded team and went to content creation
Got kicked from sentinels for performance based reasons
yeah man phenomenal IGl you're right
Danny [#30]lost 8/9 of his most recent G2 games, disbanded team and went to content creation
Got kicked from sentinels for performance based reasonsyeah man phenomenal IGl you're right
What about the first half though? G2 placed top 2, not mentioning that though I see. Also, you can't know for a fact that he got dropped because of performance, especially considering they added shroud of all players and still didn't even play that bad. Shahz high key got unlucky asf on SEN, and the reality is, is that once he got a chance to properly practice with the team, they improved massively.
You've really let VLR get in your head and convince you that he's bad, but he's genuinely the one who's underrated, not vanity lol.
StutterSt3p [#31]What about the first half though? G2 placed top 2, not mentioning that though I see. Also, you can't know for a fact that he got dropped because of performance, especially considering they added shroud of all players and still didn't even play that bad. Shahz high key got unlucky asf on SEN, and the reality is, is that once he got a chance to properly practice with the team, they improved massively.
You've really let VLR get in your head and convince you that he's bad, but he's genuinely the one who's underrated, not vanity lol.
They scrimmed with both
If Shahz is underrated and not Vanity, how come he wasn't able to get a spot on the team?
Stop letting your nostalgia bias you. Vanity is the better IGL
StutterSt3p [#5]He's not that bad, but Shahz or flyuh would've been a lot better for C9, if they could've gotten either.
Not that Vanity is bad, but also Shaz has worked with Oxy,Wippie, and Immi before, making it much easier for the roster to get into a flow. But vanity is a friendly guy so im sure it will be fine as well
Rodu [#33]Not that Vanity is bad, but also Shaz has worked with Oxy,Wippie, and Immi before, making it much easier for the roster to get into a flow. But vanity is a friendly guy so im sure it will be fine as well
Vanity has worked with Wippie, Immi, and Xeppaa before, and also done a much better job
Danny [#22]The only maps where having a Sova is mostly necessary are Breeze and Ascent(even Ascent C9 has been successful running Skye solo initiator)
You don't need Sova on any other map
Breeze, Haven, Ascent. they dont run sova on haven bc they never had a sova playerm, and if you go look at there recent hasven games runi was running sova
Shawn23 [#35]Breeze, Haven, Ascent. they dont run sova on haven bc they never had a sova playerm, and if you go look at there recent hasven games runi was running sova
You can play haven without sova
Here you can see Loud beating fnatic on Haven without sova
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