https://twitter.com/RLewisReports/status/1636103932089978886?t=8QJqNdeIjQHV8fMC5-OWHw&s=19
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Csgo has low skill ceiling?
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Valorant requires brain, unlike CS where its fans have small enough brain to come on Valorant forum and try to talk about how their game is better. Crawl back to HLTV gremlin...
CS requires more brain unironically, in Valorant all you need to take a map is win both pistols
Braindead take, GE went 6-0 on pistols and still lost the bo3. There are many examples of teams losing both pistols and still winning map. Yes pistol rounds are important but they do not determine the entire map.
In Valorant there's only 13 rounds to win and very rewarding pistols, in CSGO there's 16 rounds, everyone with a brain understands that Valorant is a much more random esport, especially when meta shifts so often.
Don't the frequent meta shifts show that Valorant also has a high skill ceiling just in a different way
In that aspect, yes. But at the same time, Valorant is a lot more random. It's been 2 years of internationals and not a single team won a global event twice, and only 1 player won it twice.
thats because valorant does not have the same aspects in sense of utility like csgo, its more complex cause of riot
its their version of a csgo, r6 and overwatch mashup
He actually has a point, teams winning both pistols have a probability of 0.7 / 70% chance to win the map.
As the person above said, statistics shows that in majority of games (70-80%), winning pistols guarantees you a map
Lost 6 pistols and won lol
that's 1 example
Nobody said it NEVER happens. The player quality disparity made it possible in this case.
You cannot deny that the vast majority of games where a team wins both pistols ends in a map win. 1 or even 20 examples out of thousands does not make that statement wrong.
Csgo has no rechargeable smokes, the same movement speed for everyone, no maps with 3 bombsites, less diverse utility, and no ultimates
Val to CS is like comparing chess to checkers
Tier 1 scene In csgo is an absolute joke other than g2. Holy these teams dropping games against tier 2 and tier 3 teams so often now.
Imagine liquid still rank top 5 cs team losing to rare atom rank 72 team in 2 0 dominantly. Second map was 16 3 for rare atom. These guys are actual pay check stealers.
Looks like you've never watched CS. The level of gameplay there is so much higher than in Valorant, here every match in tier1 has a random result
bro stop the troll lmao its so obviously. You telling me Rare atom vs liquid was a top tier game LMAO
Tier 1 scene in CSGO right now is stronger than ever before, that's why even tier2 teams take maps off tier1
so tier 2 takes maps off tier 1 because tier 1 is strong?????? bro i dont know if even you dont understand what you tried to say, but it doenst make sense.
Yes, skill ceiling in CSGO is way higher than in Valorant, hence even tier2 in CS is much stronger by fundamentals, that's why they're catching up
if its higher, tier 1 should be higher than tier 2 by miles, thats not how skill ceiling works man, like let me explain, the higher the skill ceiling is, the harder to catch up tier 1 because of them improving day by day.
You don't understand. CSGO scene is just so stacked with very good tier2 teams, that the gap between tier1 and the best teams of so-called tier2 becomes almost non-existent.
ok that makes sense, but skill ceiling still has nothing to do with it LMAO
Valorant doesn't require as much individual skill to reach the top as CS does
Valorant has bigger hitboxes and slower movement, meaning it's simply a lot easier to kill enemies than in CS, you don't need to be as precise
nah the top echelon of tier 1 is really bad right now.
outside of g2 and heroic/faze alot of the top rosters have alot of problems
It's not really "problems", they play well, it's just that the scene has grown from top heavy to very stacked
navi have igls problems
liquid have oSee
cloud9 just made a terrible roster move
vit has apex (decent igl terrible fragger)
outsiders is boring
og's igl is stepping back for personal reasons.
My guy all of these teams are still very good, it's just that the standards have changed
Tell me you dont know how the hltv rating system works.
besides if vlr had a global rating system you would see this too.
When prx lost to LaZe that wouldve been like a top 5 team losing to rank 132.
hltv ranking isnt always accurate lol. Rare Atom is on a 14 bo3 winning streak rn. its ridiculous for them to even be ranked that low.
Lmao they beat Chinese bot teams. Look at them now getting hard rolled by ENCE. Liquid is trash af losing to this trash team. Tier 1 scene exposed...
Seems like they also have very fragile mentality that they have to come to valorant forums to jerk off about cs
Stewie2k is one of the best cs players of all time and he struggled in tier 2 qualifiers.
They're different games, most of the top cs players wouldn't make it in valorant and vice versa.
Most of the top CS players would absolutely make it in Valorant if they dedicated enough time
Stewie2k is a nobody in CS for several years, not nearly the best player of all time, not even top-50
Came across this tweet from Richard Lewis and was geniunely curious about what others think. This is not a val vs cs post
Don't lie to yourself, bruv. Every topic talking bad at CS/HLTV you are there.
nah valorant has a lower floor.
the skill ceiling in valorant is pretty high considering all the new agents and maps.
Util combination and other strats still have a long way to go
Skill ceiling of valorant gets higher with every new map and agent. Compare the strategic depth of this game today to 2 years ago lol.
yeah im agreeing with you. i think i just came across wrong.
the wide variety of agents and constant updates is creating a high skill ceiling .
Like imagine going pro in this game in 2 more years. U have to learn like 10+ agent for ur role. The strats would get crazy if they don't add a pick and ban phase.
Are you stupid? There’s 3 agents this year, probably 3 next year as well. How do you expect there to be 10 per role? Most pros don’t learn even more than 3 per role nowadays.
The gist of what I'm saying is the same. A pro in the future is expected to learn many agents and roles. The skill ceiling of the game just gets higher.
exactly, team could get away with running phoenix on multiple maps or double duelist everywhere. Now you would get exposed easily for that
Valorant has different abilities for each agent, doesn't matter in cs where you can buy same util for each member of team
are you referring to aim-wise? Seems more mechanically difficult to memorize multiple agent util use mechanisms and lineups with skill depending on map vs cs where you just need 1 set of lineups for each map, no?
Yes I mean aimwise. And the utility lineups are equally difficult in both, except you need way less lineups for ranked in val than in csgo.
i'd argue that it's a bit harder to consistently two/three-burst than learn the ak spray, but that's just imo. also val has way more mechanical aspects to it than cs
I didn’t necessarily mean spray patterns, although I do think spray patterns are harder than bursting. I meant in the sense that head hitboxes are significantly bigger in valorant than in csgo, so it’s easier to kill people. And also you don’t need to counter-strafe in Valorant. There are no important skill jumps that you can utilize in valorant unlike csgo. All these little things that make csgo more mechanically challenging.
its kinda hard to guage tho, as valorant has a plethora of mechanical aspects to their agents, with raze being the most mechanically challenging agent. but i'm inclined to agree ig. CS hands out way stiffer punishments for mechanical flaws, and the gunplay in valorant/tools for improvement of said gunplay (dms) are just bad, so its harder to be consistent, as i had a harder(and less fun) time learning how to consistently burst than learning how to spray for some reason
in my exp cs' spray patterns and common util were way easier to learn than val. CS has wayyy better tools for improvement tho, so that's a major contributing factor.
Valorant have alot of entry level agents to help new players.
Like brimstone for example, who simplifies the concepts of smoking to point and clicks instead of lineups.
Spray patterns arent that important in val imo. (until you hit the higher level)
Tapping and burst firing is more important
I would say comparing the two games.
Valorant has a lower skill floor and both games have around the same skill ceiling at the top level.
having a low skill floor isnt a bad thing btw
those entry level agents aren't viable for most maps tho, and you'd have to learn how to properly utilise the util kits of at least one or two agents to even be considered average at whatever role you start off with. couple this with the fact that you must know at least two roles to properly improve and climb the ranked ladder, and you end up with a higher floor. Hell, i think a higher ceiling as well lol
The skill floor is the minimum skill to perform in a game.
I think its still lower in valorant.
Alot of what you are saying doesnt involve the floor what so ever, its more about moving away from the floor.
Valorant simplifies some of the fps elements but enhances the depth of different elements of the game.
skill floor = the minimum amt of expertise req to perform at a just-below-average level = basic-intermediate mastery of util kits of at least two agents. still, i think higher floor.
EDIT: it depends on what you consider the skill floor to both games tbh.
if entry level val/cs = simply moving and shooting, then cs> val skill floor
idk if i can classify simply moving and shooting as the valorant skill floor tho, but that's a debatable opinion ig ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Csgo tier 1 scene getting hard exposed. Literally random tier 2 tier 3 teams can beat them now. The scene been so stagnant for so long. It's actually embarrassing how liquid just lost that so badly against rare atom.
Froze won Navi 2 1... and Spirit beat Astralis 2 0.. lmao that's why he made this tweet. It's just so inconsistent in tier 1 cs atm.
Spirit beating Astralis 2-0 is heavily expected lmao. This isn’t 2019. Also Navi and losing to random CIS teams, name a better duo. 2020 Navi didn’t even win the CIS RMR iirc. This shit is nothing new, idk why we are acting like it is.
What is consider tier 1 in csgo other than G2 atm ? Heroic just recently lost to eg as well lmao. Full on cope .these "upsets" are happening way too often now.
you are t1 based on consistency,theres a reason heroic is t1 and eg isnt and if u dont understand that ur braindead
Richard Lewis is right csgo tier 1 scene in shambles but ppl still coping lol.
"In shambles" = not as dominant as supposed to be
In reality, tier2 teams are just getting better
tf? thats a 3 game sample size out of 4 EPL groups. same shit happened in valorant? TS beat TL
You're comparing established rosters with proven record to brand new rosters/teams in a new franchise league for a introduction period lol. No one knows who is good or not.
Yes most overrated esport of all time. AWP broken beyond repair, no scope has no accuracy drop off, fully accurate mid air (coldzera mirage clip no skill), all shotguns can kill in 2 hits from a mile away, smgs fully accurate while running, AK bullet inaccuracy, EZ smoke kills, Full running no scope scout headshots, SG scope way easier than ADS vandal or phantom. It's practically impossible to whiff an awp shot and the only goat conversations in cheater strike are for awpers cuz it's so EZ
Valve need to get up their asses and balanced shit or fix bugs. I hope they actually do shit with source 2. Meta been so stale. Tier 1 teams so unmotivated it feels like.
How do you define higher skill ceiling? Both games are completely different in movement, utility, shooting mechanics, etc. Also, none of the games is easy at top level. I have played both games for probably thousands of hours, I'm MGE-DMG in CS and D1-D2 in valorant, which pegs me among the top 15% of player base (nothing special) of both games exactly.
The only thing that is really different between both is utils. idk much about csgo movements but shooting mechanics are basically the same.
Movement in CS is much faster. To compensate that, CSGO has fixed spray patterns for each gun. Also, there's no anti-strafe needed to correct the shooting error in valorant unlike CSGO (you need to press the movement key opposite to the direction in which you are moving to stop faster in CS).
People calling tier 3 teams beating tier 1 in CS. This actually doesn't matter much since those tier 3 teams aren't winning tournaments over tier 1. In the other hand Acend is a Champions winner
I realized valorant was doing well when valve started tempting source 2 officially the past year. The source 2 stuff by valve proves that they consider valorant a proper threat (which it is) but, its good to get confirmation. I would like to add that both games help each other at the moment due to their contrast against each other keeping the FPS scene fresh. Both views should only keep increasing if things are going the same way as they are now.
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