not a waste of my semen 😩💥😖😵

1. CLOUD 9
2. NRG
3. SEN/EG

LOUD/LEV dropping the ball and crashing out

smol reptile

thats what C9 is saying : https://twitter.com/C9VAL/status/1654984182659964929

just to see what people are talking about them - they act like they dont care about us but sometimes all they care about is being called a GOAT by a VLR vermin. We in their heads 24/7 rent free

do they even play the same agents? Sova maybe but Sacy plays that better than both of them. trent has been playing viper, zekken does not. zekken plays raze, trent does not

marved did not want to play and yay chose c9 - hows that SEN's fault?

according to Kyedae and a few others - SEN has done everything they could to help him. His mental health issues have been present for over 1.5 years according to Shaz. You cannot sue SEN for asking him to stay at his room or firing him when he was in jail - that stuff is in his contract.

yeah maybe but i do feel its more than just an IGL problem for SEN at the moment - i dont think they have any chemistry as a team

was guard better than XSET last year?

when is LCQ? is it before Tokyo?

EG losing to MIBR does not look realistic

i dont think imports will work in NA. Sacy is good but its tough for the guys to adjust with the cultural differences and it seems most of the time they are too nice to each other. Sometimes it is important to shout/be mad at each other to work together as a team.

He is actually not wrong here. Even from the "backs against the walls" video that was released by Sentinels- it didnt seem like Sykko was talking about strats at all - he had a PPT saying stuff like "we should talk/comm together" - seemed like a corporate manager/ people management guy - who doesnt understand the nuances of the game but knows how to talk out of it - sometimes these guys easily fool the upper management guys

poverty stricken fan talk. he has a championship under his belt + rolling in cash - you are the one crying

true and lets not even talk about sinatraa

No rebuttals or refutals have been provided again proving I am right and you are not. Considering no new information but useless definitions, baseless and unresearched links, shifting of goalposts and inaccurate conclusions to drive a false narrative are all you have without directly refuting anything I've mentioned. I will respond for the last time - let it be known just because I am not continuously responding it does not mean you have refuted anything. If you wish to continue on this path you can just copy past the below arguments for the rest of the thread and reply to it yourself.

first 3 books - wrong - doesnt refute anything especially the fact that the BEST in BR go to play in BEST in EU when it comes to football but the BEST in EU go to play in the BEST in INDIA when it comes to Cricket. Confuses the concept of national teams and leagues to somehow drive an absurd point. You saying something has been refuted by pasting a few definitions doesnt refute anything at all.

book 4 - wrong - provides stupid examples of stealing and murdering and completely misses the entire point of how BEST EU clubs can and will discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, religion if they wish to and there is nobody who can hold them accountable - already provided enough examples of how this has happened throughout the history, happens in DEMOCRATIC countries in the present, and infact continues to happen quite noticeably in smaller EU football clubs to this date. There is no law protecting the victims here - a better (although foolish because u are incapable of understanding nuanced arguments ) example would be if in Brazil it was easy to shoplift and not be caught and it was only ur integrity which would be questioned - how many people would get away with it? Similarly cases of discrimination are not obvious like murdering people or even stealing/looting in the daylight - those examples dont justify how DIFFERENT laws and enforced DIFFERENTLY in DIFFERENT countries - some states ACTIVELY discriminate people on various grounds. SO not discriminating people is NOT bound by LAW - and it is appreciable if people are inclusive. If this doesnt get inside ur thick skull please get an adult to reread so that u can understand,

yeah yeah yeah as i said everything u say has implicit meaning which carries clear meaning... u built a whole fucking book saying how BR is not "completely" protectionist thats why u enjoy several options to buy several goods and services which is not correct at all. if u just google u will find 10000 links of how BR is protectionist and it is indeed the lack of local options which makes a country open up to international trade - again this is not something which is wrong but natural in the interconnected world we live in and being jingoistic about it is just foolish.

tell me you havent seen yay on jett before chamber meta without telling me you havent seen yay on jett before chamber meta

first 3 books - wrong - doesnt refute anything especially the fact that the BEST in BR go to play in BEST in EU when it comes to football but the BEST in EU go to play in the BEST in INDIA when it comes to Cricket. Confuses the concept of national teams and leagues to somehow drive an absurd point. You saying something has been refuted by pasting a few definitions doesnt refute anything at all.

book 4 - wrong - provides stupid examples of stealing and murdering and completely misses the entire point of how BEST EU clubs can and will discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, religion if they wish to and there is nobody who can hold them accountable - already provided enough examples of how this has happened throughout the history, happens in DEMOCRATIC countries in the present, and infact continues to happen quite noticeably in smaller EU football clubs to this date. There is no law protecting the victims here - a better (although foolish because u are incapable of understanding nuanced arguments ) example would be if in Brazil it was easy to shoplift and not be caught and it was only ur integrity which would be questioned - how many people would get away with it? Similarly cases of discrimination are not obvious like murdering people or even stealing/looting in the daylight - those examples dont justify how DIFFERENT laws and enforced DIFFERENTLY in DIFFERENT countries - some states ACTIVELY discriminate people on various grounds. SO not discriminating people is NOT bound by LAW - and it is appreciable if people are inclusive. If this doesnt get inside ur thick skull please get an adult to reread so that u can understand,

yeah yeah yeah as i said everything u say has implicit meaning which carries clear meaning... u built a whole fucking book saying how BR is not "completely" protectionist thats why u enjoy several options to buy several goods and services which is not correct at all. if u just google u will find 10000 links of how BR is protectionist and it is indeed the lack of local options which makes a country open up to international trade - again this is not something which is wrong but natural in the interconnected world we live in and being jingoistic about it is just foolish.

I have indeed presented decent arguments and stated facts all across my early posts, for which you have responded through false narratives, half cooked unresearched shit , shifting goalposts to drive absurd points.

The mere fact that the majority of the best football players in BR play for best in EU instead of staying back and playing for the best in BR refutes all stupid claims of BR clubs being stronger. The links you pasted to show these are unresearched articles and dont refute my claim at all. An actual rebuttal would include links of how the majority of the best football players who play for Brazil national team play in Br league - which is not true so there is no available rebuttal for this argument. This is enough to claim that best in EU is better than the best in BR. I went on to show how BR benefits from this arrangement but none of the proceeds are being used to challenge the status quo in football leagues - again that iffhs link does not refute this claim.

My introduction of cricket and olympics (again nobody cares if BR doesnt know about it or play it - the sports, music and art followed by countries depends on their cultural history and saying stupid stuff like "oh football is played more" makes no sense) shows how countries with population and a wealth divide have defeated and overcome countries with higher overall sports budgets. England for example won the last Cricket WC but most of the Englishmen play in India for their cricket league and NONE of the Indians play in England cricket leagues anymore (this was not the case before). There is a reason why Riot is trying to give China the 3 slots in Valorant majors - they see alot of growth potential and these countries have shown in the past that they can take charge when they start supporting a sport/esport. Brazil has similar problems related to poverty and an advantage in population when compared to wealthier European countries but has failed to challenge the status quo in football leagues for so long. Matter of fact, countries with no history in Football from the Middle East are doing more in signing relevant players. ------------- I know what your stupid ass rebuttals are going for everything here, you will nitpick stupid shit like a nerd and point oUT how I purposely generalized stuff like "HOW CAN U NOT MENTION VATICAN CITY WHEN U TALK ABOUT EU" when to any layman it is understood that if someone is talking about EU clubs they dont mean each and everyone of them. On the contrary your stupid and region baiting OP has generalized statements - it does not mention u exclude BBL, FUT etc in valorant, niether does it specify that oh there must be 3 or more players for u to be able to call it a "national" team to cheer for it -- u included those information and called it "its obvious xDDDD" after u were called out on it. In the same spirt i could also say that I was obviously mentioning only the rich EU clubs - there is no rule as to what can be generalized and what cannot be ---- here you are just twisting the rules to suit urself without making any sense at all.

I have already mentioned clearly that laws are not universal and also mentioned how historically not acting in a discriminatory way towards people was neither a law nor an expected behavior and gave several examples of states which actively to this day discriminate on the basis of nationality, race, religion and dont let players from diverse backgrounds to play in their leagues/sports or even in their music and art industry. Some of these are advanced nations with a constitution and a democracy, not just psycho states with dictators. So your entire point of people acting according to their laws is not appreciable is not a rebuttal at all as people within that state are not held to the same enforcement of the law as the state itself or the influential people in that state. AGAIN - the best clubs in europe CAN AND WILL act in discriminatory fashion towards Brazilian footballers if they wish to and they will not be answerable to anyone - the fact that they dont is not bound of the law of their or anyone's state so NO they are not just respecting their law but rather being nice and benevelont and there is nothing wrong with appreciating that in today's world filled with psycho jingoists like u.

There are tons of other arguments which u brought into this shit like BR apparently not being a protectionist state and then somehow tried to correct it by saying "oh no i did mean this, i meant that - its so obvious!! again most ur arguments are just that - when u say something there is implicit meaning behind it which is obvios but im not allowed to freely use terminology. You are making up things, its like ur acting like a judge in this whole thing which is why everyone feels like a defendant to you - but for me and most people in this thread ur the defendent and the downvotes show that. i am free to share whatever information i like whether its about me being drunk or w.e - its not a fucking courtroom its vlr.gg and i dont need to repeat myself several times if u miss the point or have difficulty in reading comprehension - thats ur problem not mine so i will be copy pasting my replies to show u have not answered or refuted anything

yeah bro ur right and im wrong.. JUST KIDDING LMFAOOOOO ur wrong + braindead

book 1 wrong - u just went from sayin u wanted to know everyones opinion who cant support own country to idc about APAC. Nothing was apparent or obvious in ur arguments - it was region baiting and the fact that everyone called it out shows that u did not succeed. i know the reason behind it too - its the pent up anger after the whole world shat on BR for their crowd behavior and their comparison with EU crowd - so u made a thread basically saying "oh u dont know whats it like to support ur own country!!!1" -- yeh yeah yeah i know ur gonna say "u cannot know my intentions!!! where is the proof!! its ur personal belief" - this aint a fucking courthouse ya clown - there is proving and then there is knowing - everyone knows ur just baiting.

so am i falling for this bait by constantly replying to ur bullshit arguments? - nah honestly its an EMEA bait thread by a brazilian who is getting shat on - so its 2 birds at once for me so yes i am downnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn to keep replying LETS FUCKIN GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO - ok im abit drink

book 2 - wtf was this? u just admitted to being wrong or something? reread my original post on the laws not being universal and then read ur bullshit - biggest contradiction ever.

book 3 - wrong i already told u can google for more examples i aint gonna sit here finding articles for rebuttals cause im not a lawyer getting paid by the hour. a simple google will tell u that - also since ur so big on understanding "clear" and implicit meaning behind everything - oh wait thats a privilege u only accord to ur own arguments and not others!! I have to be clear when i say EU - i cant just say idc about countries in EU which dont play football but u can use broad terms like EMEA - how dare i forget that... hmm but if u had a bit of shame - u would understand brazil, china and India have alot more than population in common which is why i picked up those countries' examples. You wouldnt admit to it but Europe is much more developed and wealthier than BR which is one of the major reasons why the "BEST" in EU is better than the BEST in BR in various terms in football - again idc about baseless links its just a fact which is proven by how the BEST in BR majorly go to the BEST in EU rather than staying and playing for the BEST in BR. This does NOT happen in Cricket in India - an example of how BR should focus to turn things around.

Narrating what you think is happening in this debate won't make that thought true. Saying "I refuted" - when you only give opinions that are immediately rebutted in the next post, doesn't change reality or make an argument valid - yh ill paste this here cause u saying something doesnt make it so either . bro is just cooking up stories in his mind - calling me a defendant.. if anything the accusations on 90% posts on this thread are on ur insincere and region baiting OP so who really is a defendant? you have written so many books trying to claim ur innocence but u havent sold 1 to anyone.

agree, the team chemistry is really OFF. removing dephh wont even solve any problems or bringing tenz back. C9 is an example of how if 5 players click together its better than having even 5 champions/masters winners

fuck it - Just remove the whole squad and bring in like tier 3 collegiate players who are hungry. 5 no namers with chemistry is better than slapping different world champions and see if it sticks........ i think there is ego and too much respect for each other in that team that no one calls out other players' shit performance out. I think this is why C9 is winning cause MCE is the boss and everyone listens

3 champions and losing to EG is just insane.. i think everyone just plays nervous on SEN because its extra pressure or something.. dont ask me why it doesnt work for LOUD

lets just delete all agents and call it cartoon cs im downnnnnnnnnnnnnn

maybe it will, i feel alot of NA orgs did make teams around the Chamber meta to begin with - and the sudden shift of meta has left them with role issues. Might be true for other regions, but i do see it alot in NA.

i only watch a few NA matches but havent seen him being used alot on Lotus. C9 played yay on Chamber on Lotus once but not after that - is he being used in other regions' matches?

is there any other agent which is unplayable in ranked and pro as much as chamber? i understand most people love jett and hated chamber meta but it seems the agent has been deleted.. reyna, yoru, pheonix are atleast fun in ranked - i cant think of any other agent which has been nerfed so hard

those who might fall for the bait - he was talking about the sentinel character KJ

book 1 wrong and hypocritical - reread ur title and OP. EMEA = Europe, Middle East and Africa - exception provided: Sweden and Denmark in CS. Post made in Valorant forum. Expectation : talking about all esports and only those who cant cheer for a team. It is "obviously" clear and not region baiting when "EMEA COME" is the title and when countries in APAC for example have majority foreigners playing too - why target EMEA in that case? Everything u say is clear and carries implicit meaning when others say "Europe" they should explicitly mention only the rich leagues or else not use that term but u can use the term EMEA and one should understand u "obviously" dont mean 3/10 franchised clubs. no rebuttal provided here

book 2 - reread or get an adult to read my previous post to understand it. laws are niether universal nor enforced universally so no they are not expected behavior. no rebuttal provided here

wrong - already refuted that India and China are not exceptions, rather examples of how countries can and do invest and make the best out of the sports THEY SUPPORT and PLAY. google for more examples - wait why would u do that lmao - you only google for links which support ur narrative not question ur bullshit personal believes. desperate attempt made to compare WCs of India and Jamaica when I was clearly comparing Indian Cricket League to Brazilian footballs league and to Chinese Olympic performance - two examples provided ("I mentioned 2 teams as exceptions ("oh my god there are others!!!")" - use same logic here to google for more examples of APPLES TO APPLES comparisons to educate urself). any desperate attempt to make an apples to oranges comparison is no rebuttal provided. reread my previous posts to get a clearer understanding.

all ur links are unresearched, twisting of facts to fit a narrative which i have already refuted several times in the thread including the iffhs one - reread my previous posts to understand it. my job isnt here to educate and enlighten you, just because I am responding, ur expecting me to spend more than 30 seconds to refute every stupid strawman argument you make on an online forum is crazy. none of my claims are personal opinions and i have stated where it is my personal opinion, ive asked u to google for more information on the subjects where u clearly lack information - feel free to do that by highlighting every fact ive mentioned on this thread. there is no judge here to decide whose arguments are better but the users - if anyone is bothered by the comments on this forum they just report - downvoting is a sign of saying ur takes are awful - nobody is "bothered" by ur comments based on twisted data - dont confuse urself as someone who is bothering people by talking the truth on an online forum - most people here troll and bait and nobody takes anyone seriously. on the contrary i feel ur the one bothered by my comments on Brazil which made u research twisted data and present false narratives

book 1 wrong and hypocritical - reread ur title and OP. EMEA = Europe, Middle East and Africa - exception provided: Sweden and Denmark in CS. Post made in Valorant forum. Expectation : talking about all esports and only those who cant cheer for a team. It is "obviously" clear and not region baiting when "EMEA COME" is the title and when countries in APAC for example have majority foreigners playing too - why target EMEA in that case? Everything u say is clear and carries implicit meaning when others say "Europe" they should explicitly mention only the rich leagues or else not use that term but u can use the term EMEA and one should understand u "obviously" dont mean 3/10 franchised clubs.

book 2 - bunch of bullshit definitions provided which miss the entire premise and refutes nothing. reread or get an adult to read my previous post to understand it.

wrong - already refuted that India and China are not exceptions, rather examples of how countries can and do invest and make the best out of the sports THEY SUPPORT and PLAY. google for more examples - wait why would u do that lmao - you only google for links which support ur narrative not question ur bullshit personal believes.

nah im chillin ive given enough examples, structured arguments and information to educate u, u can reread entire posts to get a better grip on reality. ur OP question was never sincere - it was a pathetic attempt to mock a specific region - I aint even from EMEA and can read it just the like the rest of vlr did and downvoted the shit out of it. keep malding and writing books!!

hmm seems like this is ur 10th consecutive post on tenz/sen.. are u sure ur not one of the annoying fans u talk about?

book1 - wrong - ur title says EMEA come and gives example of exceptions in CS, not Valorant implying nobody in EMEA experiences the so called beautiful thing of cheering for ur nation. there arent 10000s of EMEA teams in the franchised world - there are 10 and 3 of them infact have more than 3 players of same nationality - Karmine Corp, FUT Esports, and BBL. So yes u did not do ur research on the topic and ur OP question was not sincere. Here you used EMEA - infact more than a continent to generalize but when i say EU u want me to include clubs from the vatican city to drive some stupid point. Hypocricy and idiocy is insane. again the same shit with football - ur best of the best play in the best of the best leagues in EUROPE not Brazil - the majority of them do - that just refutes any stupid unresearched links u paste to shift the goalpost and include countries that dont care about football.

book2 wrong - again the same shit, comparing oranges to apples. laws are not universal - they are different in different countries and even enforced differently. For example LGBTQ rights might be considered basic human rights and discrimination could go punished in some countries while in some countries it could be actively encouraged/discouraged by the state. Thus there is no universal definition of "abnormal" behavior. Another example : people from Pakistan and India are actively discouraged by both the countries to participate in sports, music etc. Usa ACTIVELY discourages people from hostile countries to immigrate and play in their sports or act in their movies. These are not exceptions, even if they are it is enough to counter any point made that suggests that there is anti-discriminatory laws that protect everyone everywhere. A European state can and will if they want to - actively discourage Brazilian players to play in their league without being held accountable for their actions. The fact that they dont do such stuff - is not bound by any law - for there is no such international law so it out of their benevolence that they do it and it should be appreciated. dont bring that stupid "oh it increases competitivenenes" argument again cause i already refuted it by saying historically people have discriminated against diversity EVEN if it means increase in competitiveness.

wrong - it is not specific rather an example how developing countries with lower overall budgets have defeated countries with more wealth in the sports they are passionate about. Just the fact that best cricket players from Europe and Australia and Americas go and play in India is an example of what could happen in Brazil with Football - a sport they are good at but fails to happen. China winning record medals every year is another example of a developing nation with lower budget to spend on Sports does something really spectacular. You bringing in the idea of washed tier 10 EU players playing in Brazil only further proves my point and shows that ur hell bent on shifting goalposts.

wrong and hypocritical - i already refuted this several times and shown 3/10 EMEA franchised teams have national lineups. There are 4/5 serious countries in Americas and 48 in EMEA so even if they have 3 core national lineups that is praise worthy.

nah i did it first in my iron 3 days, everyone clowned me and now im silver 1 meanwhile haters still stuck in bronze fr

first 3 - wrong - ur just shifting goalposts to include weaker EU countries to somehow score a debate point when u compared BR with stronger EU countries in the thread and realized its a losing battle and changed how the definition of EU is supposed to be used. In your OP itself which u title "EMEA come" u accuse the entire EMEA of not having 5 players when this is not even true - BBL Esports is a Turkish team from EMEA which infact has even the coaching staff from Turkey - something not even LOUD has. This basically exposes u as a fraud who wants to exclude and include countries in EU as and when he pleases. the simple fact that most Brazilians flock to western EU leagues in football is enough to say it is better than BR. again - 3 in top 50 is not even a good look and only proves my point.

wrong - the fact we have anti-discriminatory laws says that it is not expected of people to act in a decent way. we need laws to enforce this behavior and yet it is hard to hold people accountable - there is a reason why FIFA keeps shouting say no to racism. this only proves my point that acting in a non-discriminatory manner is appreciable and we need to appreciate the fact that EU has matured enough to support people across diverse backgrounds

wrong - i never said population just means the said country will be the best in everything. i compared India in Cricket and China in Olympics - a very important distinction that i kept repeating that the said country should follow the sport. If you dont understand that different countries follow different sports and support them due to various factors like cultural differences then ur just braindead. Expect everyone to play football just cause its the most viewed is just braindead. I compared apples to apples when I said India has the richest Cricket leagues - a British colonial sport and then compared it with Brazil which does not have the richest football league. Here 2 underdeveloped countries with higher population are being compared. Again ur just shifting goalposts to compare apples with oranges.

wrong - u just exposed urself. why title the thread EMEA come and say Germany and Spain when the most succesful BR club currently has 2 foreigners.. why target specific countries for not having 5 players when the one u support doesnt have it either? u just got exposed for contradicting urself and yes its not a World cup so no there is no reason for them to have 5 players from the same country and when such a tournament is available I can bet these guys will own Br.

wrong - i simply gave u an article to show u how they won it for the first time in 2021 and EU clubs have dominated over the years - this proves most EU clubs are stronger than BR + the fact that u havent researched how the ranking is done nor if it is an official authority on the subject or if there are other respectable orgs which have not ranked BR as the strongest - you pasted one link which seemed to support ur false narrative and went with it expecting not to be caught.
wrong - ur just braindead to assume i would be referring to countries like vatican city when i say EU, u were comparing BR teams to countries like Germany, Spain in previous posts and suddenly changed goalposts to include countries that dont give a fuck about football including USA to somehow score a goal - pathetic attempt to salvage debate points when the entire vlr thinks ur takes on this thread are aweful at best.
wrong - aston villa is the average EU club - again i aint talking about clubs representing vatican city. Flamengo 18th and 3 in top 50 is not even a good look so this refutes nothing but only proves my point.

wrong - u need education, have u graduated high school yet? read my post again and take some lessons in world history. there were times when being a racist was accepted, there were no laws against slave trade for an example and there were no anti-discriminatory laws preventing people from being racist/sexist etc and there are still countries where such laws dont exist.

wrong - ur point misses my entire argument, it does not matter how good Brazillians are at the game, if Europeans were racist/xenophobic they wouldnt care to include or let these guys in their country. They wouldnt care if it increases their competitiveness, there are several examples to prove this all over the world how people have not let diverse people to participate even when they know it adds to their competitiveness. Laws preventing discrimination didnt popout from the sky, they had to be fought for and it is always appreciable if someone is not racist/xenophobic because there were people who were not racist even when it wasnt a law. Big EU clubs letting Brazilians play in their league is sign of no xenophobia - which is appreciable irrespective of whether it is a law or not

wrong - Population is a pretty good metric simply cause more people means one has more choice to pick people from to make a team. Obviously countries like Vatican city cannot be compared with BR or expected to have any impact. So Germany for an example doing so good in Football with half the population of BR just shows the amount of work their people have put in to improve the culture surrounding the game. China and India play different sports - China has been very good in Olympics lately and India has been very good at Cricket - they also export alot of talent in various other fields like Technology which makes sense because they have alot of people. Also doesnt the current LOUD squad have saadhak and frod - two foreigners? are u currently forced to support Saadhak with ur flair? or even the American/Cuban FROD? that must be really sad.

wrong - u again miss the entire argument and feel like u have refuted something. when it comes to clubs it is normal to have people from various nationalities/different languages etc.. its not a national team, its not a World Cup. Germany or Spain in Valorant does not need to find 5 players to make a squad, if there was a world cup in Valorant, maybe they would create a roster with 5 and maybe they could 13-1 ur all BR squad too just like how u got 7-1'd. In the future maybe even LOUD might import players from the Americas region, just like they did with frod - go ask them why did they do that and if there are no other good coaches available in BR? Supporting foreign products hurts the local alternatives when it comes to trade - cheering for foreign players does not affect the local players who are not playing in the tournament.

cherry picking stats and sources, and then saying you have refuted my claims without actually ever refuting any of them is your whole argument. Just to take the example of IFFHS - it clearly says that Brazil won it for the first time in the history of IFFHS (since 1991) meanwhile EU dominated for all of the previous years.(https://www.iffhs.com/posts/1607). Now if you did your own research on the topic in an unbiased way you could see how you are cherry picking stuff to make an argument - but again fooling nobody but yourself.
It doesnt take a rocket scientist to understand that I have been referring to wealthier western European leagues and not Eastern European countries that hardly qualify for the WC but u write a whole paragraph correcting it like a nerd without making a single point.
Messi and Neymar who came straight outta South America didnt sell any shirts lol.. only after they were provided with the training, nutrition and medical help at centres like La Masia - made them who they are today.

My comment on Aston Villa was in response to how you said big clubs like Real Madrid are an outlier to rest of the Europe -- Aston Villa stands nowhere near RM in terms of wages or trophies won but they spend as much as Flamengo says everything.

What is there not to understand - 3 BR clubs in top 50 - that was the article I was referring to say BR spends nothing in comparison to other big EU leagues. They profit off the selling of their players but hardly invest anything to develop their own leagues. I gave example of how India does it in cricket (another underdeveloped/developing country to make the comparison a little fairer). I aint clicking and reading your link to the World Cup stats because I can 10000% tell u that is cherry picked. Well obviously football is not famous in USA, most people here dont care for the sport or the MLS - it is personal preference and if anything is a joke it is the fact that football is almost a religion in Brazil and yet they lose 7-1 in their home to a country with not even half their population.

Not being xenophobic is definitely a quality - you saying my arguments are unfounded doesnt make them so but only shows your ignorance about the subject. You would understand that sport has historically seen racism and xenophobia - the ability of society to shun their outdated views and look for talent across the globe has never been a necessity, rather an appreciable improvement. For example there was a period when Black people were not allowed to play and even today in some places they have to face racism - do you think the perpetrators of racism feel like "oh we need talent from Black people so we shouldnt be racist" - no they are fine without them but the fact that these societies are slowly moving away from such beliefs and accepting people from diverse background is appreciable. You think oh my BR brothers are so talented that they cannot be ignored - that is not true --- i could make the argument for this paragraph by pasting links and sources but at this point i know i am talking to someone who is just hell bent on proving a false narrative and wont learn that he is wrong. I already know ur supposed refutal is going to be about how this not a fact or its my personal opinion but it aint - i am just too lazy to google shit.
BR population - 200 million population and most of the populated european countries fall around 50-80M - none of them even half of yours yet they dominate in every sport/esport you play is just crazy. The ratio of quality players coming out of these based on their population is definitely praise-worthy and refutes your entire claim of them not being able to produce better talent. You comparing cities with whole countries shows another failed attempt to cherry pick and create false narrative. In every country, the cities are the most populated and present more opportunities of growth so yeah if the rest of BR except 2 cities is extremely backward then thats your problem and exposes another shortcoming of Brazil.
By using a product, you are supporting its business. I clearly gave you example of how countries like China refuse to do this which is why they are developing at a faster pace going toe to toe with US. My point is simple - you wont have local talent or local companies to support through your hard earned money or over the top cheering in every department. If you like basketball and dont have a lebron james, you will cheer for him. if you dont have a local alternative to Apple, you will buy their products. Its ok to do so but asking them with the tone " OH U DONT HAVE THIS? SO U SUPPORT A WHOLE CONTINENT, DIFFERENT COUNTRY? HAHA THATS A SHAME" is just ur stupid attempt to act like a clown and it is apparent from this thread how u got exposed for it. yea yea yea i knew u would back out of the protectionist state claim and fill some nonsense to make it seem like u replied about it.. ive seen it all - pls never debate or argue in real life cause the loss of face wont be worth it.

you did not refute a single argument, as i previously mentioned u are just cherry picking articles and googling stuff to see what fits ur narrative. the org that ranks BR higher is no authority on the subject, there are several other orgs which did their study and ranked BR orgs below EU clubs thus ur 1 article does not refute shit. the simple fact that most BR players will sell their families to play in EU shows which is better and the complete credit goes to EU for being able to maintain that credibility. No one serious would enter and play for a BR club. the whole deal is skewed and benefits BR more than EU as players like Neymar earn their living in EU and go and invest back in BR. Also funny how u even mention Flamengo is 18th as if that makes any sense - there are other things in that article that u could've picked up like "Flamengo spends 1 mil more than Aston Villa" "There are only 3 BR clubs in top 50" "BR has 5x population of every EU country but they dont have money to spend in the sport they are crazy about" -- see classic example of u cherry picking shit to build a narrative but its a failed attempt as I said - you are fooling no one but yourself. Acting as if you are presenting facts and not using personal experience to build an argument is just a farce, you cannot seriously believe what you are typing. To give a better perspective, Cricket is a game which is crazy amongst British colonies - guess which country has the highest paying cricket clubs? Its not England or Australia or any other developed country - but its India followed by Pakistan - two underdeveloped countries run the sport they are crazy about - something BR can learn about. (OMG how does an American know this? Nationality has nothing to do with knowledge)

There is no benevolence from BR - the players dont seek a permission from their government or fanatic jingoists like you before they move out and seek better opportunities in EU. Here EU provides them with the respect they deserve and BR just lets it happen cause they earn some money out of it. It is EU that provides these guys with the respect and facilities - nobody would care if all the BR folks just sit home and play in their own leagues. The world will not miss a thing. Again the only reason EU clubs reach out to them is because they are not xenophobic and wish to nurture, train and THEN use the talent available - worldwide. These are facts not opinions.

there is nothing new here, i already said multiple times it is not written in stone that every player will seek out for competitiveness over money.
Jingoism is the perfect word to describe to ur original post - it reeks of some sort of self-congratulatory message to urself and fellow BR for producing 5 players compared to 2 or 3 by Spain or Germany when u have 5x their population. You have absolutely no clue what you are yapping about and it is feeling like I am talking to an AI at this point. I am well aware of every word that I have used and definitely have a better understanding of those words than you.

LMFAO You have absolutely no fucking idea. How can you be a Brazilian and not know that BR has always been traditionally protectionist state - it levies heavy taxes on goods produced elsewhere and constantly asks companies like the Automobile ones to setup their factories locally. One good example is how iphones cost 50% more in BR compared to US - yet you dont have a single company which can compete with Apple - an American company. I am sure everyone who is rich in BR just uses an iphone. BR actively participates in protectionist policies when it comes to trade but still fails to produce enough industries to rival international competition - unlike countries like China which actually has solid alternatives. You are forced to support a variety of FOREIGN services like Valve, Riot Games, Apple, Google, Microsoft and 100000s of other areas because you DONT have a LOCAL OPTION. A chinese guy can come upto u and say "oh u just use Google an American service because u dont have something like Baido - chinese app developed by CN?" - that question is not sincere - it is self congratulatory and reeks of arrogance and fails to understand that the world is dependent and supporting foreign stuff is inevitable. AGAIN - Having 5X the population of single EU states and only 5-6 more serious valorant players than them is not even something to be proud of.

vlr without shownu would be goated tho

EU frog watching tier 2 NA valorant? i mean i would never watch tier 2 EU. yay stays rent free in ur head lil bro

but did he get diffed tho?

yeah not even that hot. u take 1 player out of ANY top team right now and place him in DSG and you will have the similar results. its always the team not any individual player

bro wrote a book and yet missed to address everything - just pasting nonsense articles, cherry picking facts to build a narrative - you are only fooling yourself.

• its fact not opinion : any BR player would jump to go to EU because its better. EU doesnt discriminate so they allow talent from anywhere and get behind them and support them - it doesnt matter their nationality or language or race or color of skin. BR has been a HUGE beneficiary of this benevolence. Based on how BR crowds act in esports it seems they are incapable of basic sportsmanship.

• second paragraph filled with ur own opinion - u dont speak for any player - they decide if they wanna play for money or competitiveness and they are free to chose either. plenty of examples of people who chose either.

• thats a chat gpt ass paragraph defining terms that u probably dont know anything about. Your original question reeks of jingoism and self praise. Here are some questions which i asked earlier : do u just drive jap/eu/usa cars cause BR cars suck? do u just use smartphones made in China cause BR phones suck? do u just play games made by American/Chinese video game companies like Riot and Valve cause BR cant make video games? omg it must be such a bad feeling for not having so many good things which have a BR tag on it that u have to support foreign shit!!! - Now this might seem like "facts" to you but these are snide remarks to show how other regions are superior to BR in 10000s of other areas where u are "forced" to support foreign stuff. Every country supports foreign shit to an extent and in a world that is interconnected you cannot have everything available in a single country. Pointing it out like u have in this thread only makes u an asshole.

All large developing countries have huge potential if the infrastructure surrounding the sport/esport is built and nurtured so Riot taking a bet on China cannot go wrong. China/India/Brazil are always nice bets

Delusional if you think Brazilians did not benefit from EU clubs - you yourself said they are more competitive - who gets the credit for developing and maintaining that competitiveness in the scene? Is it not the EU clubs? Go compare the budget of any big EU club with any BR club for training, physical therapy, medical treatments, food and nutrition. If you think any random ass person without proper coaching, training, nutrition and facilities can become the next Ronaldo then you are delusional beyond measure. It is not just the technique of playing football and yes EU did develop their own tactics and techniques in football too which have won them several trophies - things which Brazilians benefitted from and took them back to their country. It is a 2 way street and the fact EU appreciates talent irrespective of nationality and doesn't shun BR players saying why would we support players outside of our country is appreciable - but I guess you cannot understand as u cant even stand to applaud EU victory over ur beloved BR - its called sportsmanship. I think in the whole deal - BR benefits from this deal more than EU does. BR clubs make money by selling players but they cant use that money to retain and make their clubs as good as EU clubs? Isnt that a failure of BR clubs and Brazilians in general? You say no EU country has 5 valo players to support their country so they are forced to support EU in general - can i say that no Brazilian club inspite of having 5x population and craze behind football can create and sustain a club that can stand up to big EU clubs? Im sure most of you would skip ur local teams match to watch UEFA champions league final - an European tournament.

In the link you gave me, it clearly says Messi's contract couldnt be fullfilled at Barca because of their financial situation at the time. So he didnt just leave for CL - there is an added and important reason that he could not continue at Barca and btw he is in talks to go back to Barca. It just says PSG gave him the best deal where he has the chance to win his 5TH CL - thats not even the main reason why. You in your first statement said all players prioritize competitiveness over money - which I refuted with Ronaldo and Neymar's example. There are several such examples of players going to clubs with bigger money irrespective of how competitive the environment would be - ofcourse none of them would admit and say we went for the bag - you can google for more such players. You simply made a generalized statement saying everyone prefers competitive > money which is not true. Nobody cares if Ronaldo got criticized for the move - the fact he took the decision is reason enough to refute ur claim of comp>money.

Hyper - jingoism is sold by politicians across the globe. In America, these idiots cry "buy american, make america great again" I dont wanna get into polit*cs here but these people live the most miserable lives who have nothing to show for themselves so they hide behind the flag. This jingoism is saddest in poorer and underdeveloped nations like Brazil because it is sold by corrupt politicians who will turn each and every situation and make it about the country. People eat this shit up and never question their own country or leaders and get worked up trying to defend their country online. You are a victim here - next time you get up and ask rich EU countries why they dont have 5 valorant players to cheer for - ask Brazilian clubs why cant we retain BR talent and make EU guys come play for us? Why cant we buy optic players or fnatic players.. how come Sacy and pancada leave to go to US? these questions are uncomfortable but truly patriotic - these questions benefit Brazil more than your original question would ever benefit Brazil. i have nothing else to say to you, have a good rest of ur life. sorry if i hurt u.

ur neither convincing nor confusing anyone with ur delusional hyper-jingoistic takes. in ur first paragraph, you conveniently talk about how BR exports resulted in an exposure to their playing style and create "equalized" football without acknowledging the fact that said BR talent also benefited from developed training facilities and tactics being developed in EU. Not to mention, BR clubs making money off their sales. Neither do u mention how it is the failure of BR clubs to retain their talent and these trade secrets of football but somehow it is the fault of EU for not being xenophobic and accepting BR talents into their much advanced training facilities and provide extravagant life only for them to return to BR and represent BR in international competitions. yours are not facts, just convenient stories to support ur narrative of BR vs the world and how everyone has connived to deny u a WC for 20 years except ur own faults.

again ur wrong in second paragraph. messi didnt leave barca for champions league there was more to it. there is no competitiveness angle to choosing PSG for Neymar either, he couldve easily chosen more competitive environment. cr7 is 38 and has 5? champion leagues so yh he prioritized money aswell.

again there is nothing convincing or confusing about this hyper-jingoistic take of urs. i have probably visited more countries and experienced cultures to tell u that none of what u are saying is alien to me - i know and i've seen people with such beliefs - it is usually propagated by corrupt politicians in their countries which makes them believe their country is special and everyone is against them. u made a snide remark basically saying "hey EU u guys just support continent cause no country is able to provide 5 individual players who can rep u like LOUD could with BR hahaha" but as i mentioned most countries in EU can hit back at u in 100 areas where there is no BR representation and in valorant/cs as per the population ratio if u have 5 good players compared to 2 or 3 from Germany or Spain - thats not even a bad ratio to be clowning about - u have 5 times their individual populations.

1. 20 years of drought is an exaggeration - there have been only 5 world cups in these 20 years and the fact that in these 20 years, BR players have moved to EU clubs cannot be held as a causation of their supposed drought. There could be several other reasons why - including the fact that other teams/nations have developed in the game. England hasnt won the World Cup in so many years - not because their players were playing in EPL or any other league. Simple fact that BR players are playing with the best (as u said) + winning titles for clubs shows there hasnt been any drop in their talent by moving to these clubs so holding that as a reason for BR not winning a WC makes 0 sense. Correlation =/= Causation.

2. Chinese teams are not competing for fresh talent. There is example of your very own Neymar going to PSG over Barcelona or even other EPL teams. Do you think French league is more competitive than La Liga or even EPL? So your argument of competitiveness > money is not true for all cases. It depends from player to player.

3. "EU supports other countries because no choice" "BR players play in EU because of better opportunities+money" - Do u not see the irony and bias in your statements? Using your logic can one not say that BR footballers have no choice to play in BR leagues because they are broke and cannot retain top tier talent? Its the same as saying "oh u learn English because Portuguese sucks no opportunities" "Oh u prob just play video games from American companies like Riot and Valve cause BR companies suck" "Oh u prob watch Hollywood movies cause BR movies suck" "Oh u prob drive a jap/eu/usa car cause BR autmobile sucks" ---- this is xenophobia and self praising of ur own nation not understanding that the world is diverse and interconnected and everyone benefits from every country.

i think she is protecting tenz, not zekken with those backhanded comments

Your argument makes no sense. There is no evidence to say Brazilian players were better when they played for BR clubs - if that was the case why doesnt your current squad just field BR club players - or are they not as good as the ones who go to EU clubs? How do Brazilians win so many club trophies in EU? Why cant u accept the fact that EU is not xenophobic enough to accept BR players and train them and give them money? The fact that you think because Im American, I cannot know anything about football (yh i dont call it soccer and dont watch NFL) tells me everything i need to know about you. There are people who enjoy/support stuff outside of their national/cultural/racial boundaries - you are somehow incapable to understand this.

"80% of your '94 and 2002 winning teams played for European clubs". There have been 5 world cups in last 20 years - other nations dont just come there to participate. you won 3/7 copa americas in last 20 years though - the other 4 winners also had several european club players btw. If there is an argument which is unsustainable on this thread - its yours