you have not tried to anti cgn
coaches in dach keep complaining about how other people cant figure cgn out only to then get crushed themself anyways

The only logical takeaway is that they just do whatever tf they feel like in the moment and there is no game plan

apologies for the oversight
ill be more considered of readers next time

Cant figure out their playstyle if they dont know what theyre doing themselves

I was watching the game but after your description even Im confused
(so very accurate, gj)

we will not be accepting the french into a dach roster
we want to win but theres limits ok

Ive been critical of CGN but just seeing the rest of the world go through the same pain and confusion we have in dach is magical
Ive never wanted them to win a tourney before but dang it'd be the funniest shit ever

given that KC didnt allow him to talk about what happened during the season even after the year was over (and he was no longer with the org) I assume there was more going on
but ye KC had some wild rounds

because franchising has way stricter guidelines than t2/gc
Its not that Riot has an outright problem with falcons, its just that they dont pass the org vetting process they have for LEC (and presumably VCT)

just gonna copy paste my thoughts from: https://www.vlr.gg/post/4090958/is-emea-t2-cooked if you already read that just skip, nothing new here

I havent heard anything about Apeks not being allowed to compete in vct
Even the rumors started by some org owners in other regions (...for the 3rd time now) about them having to leave polaris due to owning the TO are anything but confirmed. Theres statements making it very clear that all 3 parties (Riot, Mist and Apeks) are aware of the potential conflict of interest and have taken precautions to make sure it adheres to Riots standards.

If they leave its almost certainly due to reevaluating their investments in Polaris (they have been the lifeblood of the region for an entire year now and still have very few fans in the valorant polaris space)

There have been whispers about them leaving from players in t3 Polaris but I have not heard anything certain from anyone yet.

there is no predefined time. The Admin can assign any time they want.

If youre referring to the "15.5. Player Emergency Pause" that the JL coach posted then while its a good argument on the surface level it just doesnt apply to the situation.
It explicitly defines “Player Emergency Pause" (and then uses this exact term when describing its applications). The sub rule in question doesnt use this term, instead leaving it to the digression of the admin.

there might be rule changes in the future which is what theyre referring to
but I dont think we ever got more than unconfirmed rumors about that

o
well ye thats the plan from stuff theyve insinuated ye (though Leo Faria has also reiterated a looooooot of times that the standard for teams that ascend is lower so way more orgs will be eligible)

I havent heard anything about Apeks not being allowed to compete in vct
Even the rumors started by some org owners in other regions (...for the 3rd time now) about them having to leave polaris due to owning the TO are anything but confirmed. Theres statements making it very clear that all 3 parties (Riot, Mist and Apeks) are aware of the potential conflict of interest and have taken precautions to make sure it adheres to Riots standards.

If they leave its almost certainly due to reevaluating their investments in Polaris (they have been the lifeblood of the region for an entire year now and still have very few fans in the valorant polaris space)

There have been whispers about them leaving from players in t3 Polaris but I have not heard anything certain from anyone yet.

And please stop comparing shit to the Guard. They didnt sign because they wanted out of esports and we all knew it a year ahead. They wanted to sell their spot after they won and Riot refused.

bob isnt in t2 anymore bro

yea im surprised they did considering he probably wasnt high prio for many people
at least I havent heard anyone in 10 mans talk about the DIA boys being swampt with trials unlike some now complete FA teams

idk im just happy they got a shot, they were my favorite team from east and seeing em in t1 is gonna be super fun

Thats an early signing ngl but good one

Hes very good. Youll see him pop up on underrated talent lists from people in t2 from time to time and imo hes more than earned that good rep
DIA was underrated in general so its nice to see em get some serious consideration

not an issue since the substitute rule is the exact same as in the CL rulebook. Its the one theyre used to
but yes that is also an problem which I hope theyll improve on

no riot were fine with the rules
JL werent aware of them and feel cheated

It has always been the players jobs to know the rules so it definitely doesn't warrant a remake, however MAGiK's followup does raise the main room for improvement coming out of this situation: better communication from the admin.

Riot have acknowledge this lack of proper communication in their initial report so its something theyll try to fix for future issues.

The other big concern is obviously people feeling its unfair for riot to put the blame of the improper hardware (internet) on the players but thats also always been the case and JL chose not to bootcamp. Based on TU's situation we can assume Riot would have allowed them to use the warmup rooms too if there were monetary issues (though french fans on vlr have assured us that there werent and it was just preference).

nah they needed the whole series
round thing was the vct rulebook not the ascension one (we only got that one a couple hours before the game)

ye reborn is also my fav fan game of all time

Nice and challenging without requiring you to look at team sheets yet (since you know the terrains pre fight and have the same opportunity to abuse them). It also just doesnt end so thats a plus.

Games like Fusion and Insurgence are great from a quality standpoint.
And Unbound and Radical Red have some great difficulty curves on the higher difficulty settings.

Ye I have that too
Just bad internet sadly. Shit sucks and idk why youtube is suddenly struggling more.

For people confused just look at past HG
they always invite a couple regional teams and then hold quals/cross region invites to fill the other slots

https://www.vlr.gg/event/1752/red-bull-home-ground-4
https://www.vlr.gg/event/1169/red-bull-home-ground-3

A bit late woops
Was the second time the pause at round 20/21 or did I miss a round where they actually started 4v5?
Only remember tech pauses into then 5v5

As long as everyone on the server at round start (or before the first person takes damage ig) it'd count as in within the pause time

Also I havent loked at GoPs steams in a while but isnt he still a Reinhardt one trick? Bros equipped to take down Mammoths

ye the "A and B" in a mathematical context is proven false by proving that either A or B to be false
In this case the B could be interpreted as false ("is unable to return within the allocated pause time") since the time the admin gave was enough

This would then make "A and B" false meaning the entire of the rule wouldnt apply to this situation

(https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_conjunction#Definition_2 for visuals, you can also scroll a bit up for the table if you werent tortured with math proofs in uni/school)

And yea GodOfPog hunt for the rulebook was amazing xD screwed all the scenarios up (and ruined our dsy hype :( ) but makes this nightmare of a situation a whole lot easier at least

It doesnt. Per logic (as in the maths term) it explicitly says its NOT ok. Both arguments need to be fulfilled in a conjunction. It ofc doesnt have to get treated as a conjunction; language and maths done always line up perfectly, but the admin is 100% on the right from a "as written" standpoint. We dont know if he was from a "as intended" one.

But ye id 100% love it if they went for more transparency with admin rulings as a whole. As someone whos rather interested in that side of a TO id love to find out more about how they operate and read rules.
Problem is that rulings would get a looooot of scrutiny then and that just makes the admins work SO much harder. Back when I was doing Admin we didnt publicize our decision making for rulings either unless its a very severe case/public person where we know it'd reflect badly on everyone if we didnt (sorta like this case xD)

You dont have to see a reason, youre not the admin in this case. Youd have to find a way he broke the rule stated here if you want to take such drastic action.

We've had players dc more than once during regular season and it wasnt a problem to just give them time then.

And no he doesnt have to apologize. Nothing you have said, or any players tweet that Ive seen, suggest that he broke any rule.

Look if you do admin then youll be aware of how players react after rough losses and how youll be presented with the grosses misinterpretations of the rules you can imagine, that conveniently fit their desired outcome. Thats why the admins decision stands above all.

Yes you can review a ruling and if the admin team decides that it was severe misinterpretation of the rules, or the admin even just disregarded them altogether, overrule their decision. But again there's nothing to suggest it is.

its not illegal lmao
the rule quite clearly states "In the event that a Player disconnects during a map and is unable to return within the allocated pause time.... [sub replacement part here]"
He returned in the allocated pause time each time hence its up to the interpretation of the Admin to decided if they have to put their sub player in. We also have no idea what they actually said. Youre going off a sumary of one of the parties.

Idk if you ever were admin for a tourney but one of the most important aspects for things to work is that you trust your admins. Riot has a bad history of not trusting their admins' calls as soon as theres public backlash to a result. Hence grow a pair.

Bo1/Bo3 vs TU would def be fine for us viewers and by far my preferred choice but it makes no sense from a competitive standpoint.
If riot are willing to undermine the integrity of their event to this point this would by far be the least of the suggested evils (well except maybe starting at like 11-10 and just removing the 2 dc rounds) AND the best for viewers.

The 6 team double elim is a catastrophe. Changing formats mid event just undermines any competitive integrity an event has. Youre screwing GN and changing the result to fit the result they as a TO want. You cant ever do that.

nah
good chance some of em end up being real but teams either havent started or are in very early stages of their trials with nothing confirmed

T1 is fine ngl
T2 needs work but Riot did get the hint with Polaris' near death and have been taking feedback from the regions the past year.

The change of format emea is getting next year (with more "internationals" between stages) is a huge step in the right direction

then leagues will eventually consolidate until you have healthy t2 regions with big enough viewership to be sustainable (with the super cheat t3 system + premier doing a lot of the heavy lifting as t2 slots become more sparce)

Systems like https://x.com/VALORANTukn/status/1831337161217786247 will help to grow the lan-scene which valo has been lacking so far. Hopefully itll be a success in Polaris and will then be offered in other countries to give them a little boost.

Its not all bad atm. We'll see what works and what doesnt but its not like last year where it felt like they were leaving t2 out to dry.
Also 2027 is rapidly approaching and thats has a very good chance to get some t2 orgs into t1 as others get removed

No pretty solutions for this

Remake at 10-7 with sub in HUGELY favors JL and is just unfair to TU, because as much as being screwed over by the internet issues sucked for JL, they were also just lost second half.
Being allowed to fix it while being allowed to keep the advantage of Mouz being lost first half would just be bs.

Remaking from 0-0 would be very weird since it'd be a bo1 with Mouz currently traveling home and having no time to prac (no reason either since their season is over), so again... aint exactly fair for TU.

Giving them 2 rounds for the dc's (ignoring that it goes against the remake rules) and starting the game at 13-12 OT with the sub in would just be weird.

And a bo1 tiebreaker between JL and TU would be the best for us fans but wouldnt make ANY sense from a competitive standpoint.

Realistically Riot do just have to grow a pair and stick with their decision.
The harassment of teams and players that followed is not something that riot need to reward with special treatment... again. It wont help, people are going to be very upset regardless of the outcome anyways.

Use it as a learning opportunity and actually teach your admins how to properly deal with these kind of situations DURING the match.

dont think we know yet
regions arent even 100% sure how many teams theyll have next year (academy teams) so I dont think anyone announced a format yet

could have done done top 3 and give best team a bye ig? worst you can get knocked out for then is 2-2 so would seem more fair

playoffs would have been a lot weirder with byes though, I do like it just being a proper fair playing field for all teams since the tourney is this important for everyone. One part is gonna be weird regardless

Next year is gonna be a lot harder with 7 (+1) teams. 2 groups of 4 is gonna have people get eliminated on some rough tiebreakers

ufff thats even worse for em then

yup 100%
idk why youd sign a team for an entire year and then save a bit of money at the last second. Rough to get punished THAT hard though x.x
Even PCF managed to find a facility they could use (think its smb based off the chairs?)

I dont get your problem with the format
Its a perfectly normal group stage. You preform better than the others you qual.
GN didnt. They didnt just "lose a series", they also preformed worse in the other 2 games compared to their competition.
Ofc its extremely punishing to only have top 2 qual, but thats just a normal format.

And idek why we're not on lan. Would have been a bit weird with the schedule since theres only one stage, but im sure the admins can set up lan with the warmup pcs too.
Next year hopefully cause I wanna go in person (if its in berlin ofc, but riot save on money for ascension so it would be) ngl

Neil was under the impression they werent
wasnt on his stream full time (german biased cast was too good to miss) but there were a couple french pros in chat so I assume he got it from them?

no its h2h maps between the 3 tied teams

TU 2-0 Mouz
JL 2-1 TU
Mouz 2-1 JL

So its
TU: 3-2 (+1)
JL: 3-3 (+0)
Mouz: 2-3 (-1)

So TU make it, rounds didnt matter

Yea horrible end
Im pretty confident Mouz were gonna win based on how 2nd half was going regardless, but man.... now no one gets any satisfaction and JL gotta go home for the most BS reason imaginable

Grats to TU

ye this sucks
I wanna see TU for sure, but dang this is the worst

lmao they did it again xD
people reeeeeeealy like teasing barca, only to deny em the win

Mouz win -> go through
Mouz lose -> cooked

nah bodorks tweet was still using the vct emea rulebook since the ascension one was only made public a couple hours before todays games (we all assumed there wasnt a separate rulebook but alas)

Not even coaches (or apparently admins) were informed properly about the difference in tiebreakers so a lot of disappointed peeps today x.x

h2h map diff means only the maps played between the tied teams matter for the map diff (#13 for "visuals")

only to ascension
vct uses a normal map diff instead h2h between tied teams

ye per vct emea rulebook they would
not via ascension rulebook since thats a seperate one
#12 or #13

it only compares the 3 teams that in the tie

Apk 1-2 GN
Apk 2-0 Dsy
GN 0-2 Dsy

So its
Apk +1
Dsy +0
GN -1

ye, sadly
knocks out mouz too so makes this whole last day a lot less exciting that the main vct emea rulebook would have made it

this is just a seeding game for Apks now (though with this map loss it doesnt matter anymore since theyre 2nd now) <- edit: wrong its h2h for that, so theyre still playing to win for 1st seed

no the rules only compare maps between the 3 tied teams from my understanding

so apeks are already locked at 3-2 maps (so +1)
and most dsy can get is 2-2 (so +0)

the scenarios we made yesterday were under the assumption that ascension uses the normal vct emea rulebook, but it has its own that just wasnt public for us

Ye think now that we know the rules from ascension Dsy is already out
max they can get is 2-2 maps vs the 3 tied teams, while apeks is already at 3-2, but not 100% sure

https://twitter.com/LiquipediaVAL/status/1831389079042220150

tweet with rulebook:
https://twitter.com/GinTomek/status/1831355455433568305
or direct link:
https://www.emea-competitiveops.com/

ye I cut the (short) part where he talks about how they nullified aspas in the rematch out since i feel like thats only gonna lead to arguments, but neil is 100% one of the best people to listen to
Dude actually spent time countering aspas and pulled it off VERY successfully

Since the forum is flooded with it anyways might as well join in. I feel like the recent discussions have lost a lot of nuance and the mainstream analysts have done a VERY poor job properly explaining to people the differences in duelist playstyles.
When asked about it on stream Neil went into a good bit of detail. Neil sadly has clipping disabled so youre going to have to use the vod. His explanation starts at 1:18:15 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2242460430

Im going to put a summarized "transcript" below since idk how long the vod will be up, but I recommend watching it if youre interested

"I don't think Aspas baits. [...]"
He then swaps over to valoplant and gives an example of how a team can entry without needing the duelist to rush in first. He goes in detail on a "defensive" position Lev used Aspas in that made it very hard to deal with their execute on Abyss B site.
"They don't need the Jett to entry. So he can just sit back with the OP and pick you off one by one. [...]
Tldr. is you just play smart and safe. Its counter productive, but not if you set your team up to deal with it. And that's what they've done: They set their team up to not rely on their duelist taking space.
But its also why people say Aspas baits, because if Aspas isn't hitting shots [...] and if you anti strat them [...] [then] he has no impact [...].
[...]
If you don't play well against Aspas he'll farm you, basically. I think thats why people say he baits, because if you play against him properly and you don't give him the opportunities then it's hard for him to farm."