We are all wrong about Split ?

#1

Anguibok

As usual big analysis video about Split this time, you cant read so I do it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Os_TUrIpEDE&feature=youtu.be

tldw ;

Most 5 used (Raze, Vipr, Skye, Cypr, Omen) agent have 38% NMWR when picked all together
Sentinels are bad (Especially Cypr)
Good composition are 2 ctrl, 2 init, 2duel, 0sent (Just remove one of them)
Sage again really suspiciously good

The future of the map will be :
2 Must have : Raze, Astra
Pick 2 amoung 4 : Jett, Viper, Sage, (Iso, Vyze, depending of pro imprving)
1 Reveal : Skye, Fade (Only if you have another flasher)

#2

cloudberry

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Yoru

#3

KOMPOSTO

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omen > astra

#7

noem

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astra for life

#9

cloudberry

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On Split, no
On every other map, yes :D

#12

Anguibok

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What are you talking my bro ? historically Split is the most Astra map, even last time both Split and Pearl were in the same mappool Astra saw more pick on Split than on Pearl https://www.vlr.gg/event/agents/1657/valorant-champions-2023

#13

cloudberry

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Have you seen TMV's stat videos, by any chance? They use very similar statistics to the ones you've been referencing

#15

Anguibok

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I never saw him use P-value sadfully :/
(And usually he never count T2 leading to a really low sample size)

Also I never saw him talk about archetypes, and I never saw him talk about specific winrate when 2 agent are pair together as I did in Sunset video ^^

But yeah I watch is video because he is one of the few Valorant youtuber that try to see the big picture and not make all his video rely on one specific game they analysis

#4

Miyuky

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Where is Breach

#16

Anguibok

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PR : 30% (May go down because of Vyze, or go up if Cypher disapear)
NMWR : 44%
Polarised p-value : -77%

In conclusion, his stat are bad, and I don't think he can be the future of the map, but I didn't dig further, If I dig into my 2 intution :

Fade got good result and was pair with a flasher
0-Reveal composition are HORRIBLE and Breach is usually in

but I've got an intuition because Fade was pair only with another flasher and was good it was intresting to see if Breach might be ok with her, so here it go :

No Breach : NMWR : 56%. PPV ; 77% (Close to be significantely good)
Breach + Skye : NMWR 49%. PPV ; -11% (Close from 0 so no significant at all)
Breach + Fade : NMWR 58%. PPV 62% (Far from being significant yet)
Breach without a Fade or a Skye : NMWR : 32%. PPV -98% (Significant)

So in conclusion, if you want to play Breach play it with a Fade, never pick 0-Reveal composition, you can play Skye, but keep in mind no Breach composition is better than Breach+Skye. I doubt he will be Meta but he will probably not be fully dead

#21

MrBlooBloom

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it's not really the same topic but in your opinion what changes would be needed for breach to become an actual good and reliable pick? I'm a breach believer myself because he has a monstruous firepower but I'm well aware that only a few players get actual value out of him, and his overall winrates throughout the years haven't been the greatests even with prime neon. I'm not sure what would be needed for him to get better, maybe get his 3rd flash back but I'm not really a fan of such buff, ig you could buff the aftershock and make the ult a 8 points but i'm afraid he could easily become quite broken

#23

Galactc

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Buff the range of his stun and rework stuns in general to be more punishing could be an idea

#25

MrBlooBloom

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I don't agree w stuns rework because every stun ability has a different thought process and purpose (sky and neon are perfectly fine stun wise rn, astra too), but I do think ultimately a significant buff of the fault line will be needed, bc at very very high level it's way too often useless (except against awp), because fights last way too short and/or are not that impacted by the breach stun and because you cannot get reliable value out of it if not paired with a good reveal ability

#24

Anguibok

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To be frank, I dont believe initiator that doesnt reveal are able to be balanced, I think they will never be viable in soloQ since that need coordination to be usefull... While in proplay... Well you need a diver, a reveal and a controller (0-Reveal composition are absurdly insanely bad), that doesn't let a huge room for an agent that can be a flasher only, only 2 room are open for 2 agents that can be either, another duelist or a Sage, or even a Senitnel.... AND more importantly a 2nd controller (really strong ATM and in my eyes 2-ctrl is the future of Val. The more the team will be able to do midrounding, the more 2-Ctrl will become meta, having 2 controllers is so strong for make routine, lurk, and allow you to have a chance in the round even if one of your 2 ctrl die). So maybe grant him some vision on his aftershock so he can actually be a solo initiator, could be the first solution, but I'm not sur it that would be enough and if that wouldn't destroy his BOOMBOOM identity

I also think flasher need to have a systemic change, I've made complaint about why it's impossible for Riot to balance flasher because of their own mistake in their own video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLTG0jumoJQ
tldw ; IniFlahor will never be viable in soloQ (because you need to rely on mate to kill), while duelflash will never be viable in proplay (Cause their flash is shorter in team.) I think Riot should standardize the flash, and make every flasher able to peak on their own flash as a duelist,
So basically, make Breach and Kayo able to peak on their own flash would be the bare minimum for making them good soloQ, because no agent should rely only on their mate to be usefull, and make them go on a more duelist shade.

I'm not a Breach believer, wish is good for you because that mean I ask for an up, but this up shouldnt just an up of value, Riot need to give him something more than just flashing, it has to be a complete rework on how we class Breach, he can be either an half-reveal or a half-duelist, but if he is not, he will stay a bad choice because that usually mean sacrifice your controller (And it's so important if nothing go perfectly, wish isnt really possible).

Note that maybe if they are no change, he have a room if Skye continue to be nerfed to the ground and Sentinel continue to have a bad result, he may be played in composition that feature 2 ctrl, 1duel, 2 ini, thats the only composition where I believe in him. Most used composition (1D, 2I, 1S, 1C), is a composition is too predictible

#26

MrBlooBloom

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I don't necessarily agree with your point about how devs should make breach some kind of a sudo duelist/initiator if you consider that they should make him less of a support agent, because he currently is the only fun supporting initiator (especially with sky being this weak). Tho I do agree w your general diagnosis about flash initiators (especially concerning breach, that shit is so painful to play). Indeed, the lack of recon ability in his own his kit is a huge problem, especially in solo queue, but I do think there is a way to counter that without giving him any recon tool. Imo, the biggest problem w the fault line, in both pro play and soloq, is how slow it is; the fact that you mostly won't get much value out of it except on set plays, execs and retakes where the value only comes from the fact that it doesn't matter wether you do hit someone or not because it's used to clear space and angles (and because you might, sometimes, be able to pair it w a good recon ability) is what makes him weak for midrounding and on the fly plays. Thus, making it faster to pull out and to stun when launched would make stunning off contact a reliable way to use him (it's literally how it is supposed to be used). If the devs were to make such buff they'd need to remove the charging-by-pressing-m1 thing, then make the potentially stunned area highlighted for both teammates and enemies, and make it almost instantaneous to stun. Also make the flash quicker to flash, bc the soundq alone already makes it easy to dodge. U could argue that the ult cost should be 8 points because breach's own fragging power is quite low but it might change a lot w the buffs beforecited

#29

Anguibok

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"if you consider that they should make him less of a support agent,"
He can keep his kit, and nothing should be nerf of his support job, he just need something more, change nothing and allow him to pick on his flash can be enough, change nothing and allow him to reveal on his aftershock could be enough

#5

BakedFresh

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what the

#6

UBClears

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Split is a great map now after the Cypher nerfs

#8

H3ENnZ

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KJ on split is slept on

#10

cloudberry

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@Prancer

#18

Anguibok

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She have a really low pickrate, sadfully I think if she has no OP ult, on both site she wont be picked. I don't know if she is a real option to replace Cyph :/
I'm curious to hear what argument you have for her ^^

#20

H3ENnZ

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After cypher nerf I think she is good to gather info for A.
Her alarmbot is good to gather mid info and her turret is decent as well

But at the end of the day she cannot replace cypher

#11

butterdog_dogwithdabutter

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how tf is cypher bad on split or is it just my plat brain

#14

baroque

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pretty sure they just mean that the non mirror wr and stats are bad

#17

Anguibok

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43% Non Mirror Winrate, BEFORE his nerf, so he his basically ded x)
Overall on every map sentinels are not really good, beside KJ, all of them are under 50% NMWR

#27

Itsover

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Pros are ass on Cypher, only nAts can save us from takes like this one. Not agent's fault that only 1 guy can play him well.

#28

Anguibok

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If even best player in the world cant play an agent, then this agent is thrash (and too hard for humankind)

#19

gold2peak

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I thought you said spit 😂
Hawk tuah spit on that thang

#22

w1atrak

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💀

#30

H3L10S

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Thank you for the insight!