New Agent Category

#1

Marshal_D_Teach

I was watching Plat chat talking about Duelists (Aspas, Miniboo, Zekken and KangKang), then Bren and Sliggy were talking about Aspas being too passive. Mimi and Sideshow said he has another playstyle, and its not wrong to have it. Aspas is not an entry, he is morelike a trader and people seem to not understand that fact.

People really think the best aimer should be the entry because of Duelist category, but its always better to the team if he stays alive in mid/late round and kills 2~5.
Then something came to my mind: Is valorant lacking a category for aimers? Why putting them on duelists risking losing them just to scanning, opening and taking info of the bombsite?

Btw, Raze, Jett and Neon look like Openers (category name that came to my mind), but the other ones can't do the same.

Openers: Raze, Jett and Neon
Duelists: Reyna, Iso, Yoru and Phoenix

What you guys think?

#2

Huitzilopochtli

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Yoru is like both Opener/Duelist but very interesting indeed

#5

Marshal_D_Teach

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Yeah, pretty much hesitated where I should put him

#3

Aquemini

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Eg 2023 played a great system around demon1 based on this idea. The thing is aspas doesnt want to play other roles than duelists so they have to work around this problem, either kingg being more agressive as omen or they play a double duelist comp.

#4

Marshal_D_Teach

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I'm not talking about Lev playstyle specifically. I'm just saying that there is a misinterpretation (led by how riot sold the game) on how we see the competitive. I mean, look at CS (lets be honest, its the greatest inspiration for valorant as a game): There is clearly an difference between a Rifler (Trader) and Entry. Generally the best aimer is the Trader.

#6

Anguibok

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That in that case duelist are not really vviable and will not be a proplay role :/

#7

Marshal_D_Teach

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Look at Champions agent pick percentage: Yoru is on 8%, Iso 1%, Phoenix 1% and Reyna 0%. They aren't used already

Setting both categories apart would force riot to rework the Duelists so they could see the sunlight again.

#9

Anguibok

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What a change of catégorie would chenge ? They would still not be picked

#10

Marshal_D_Teach

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As i said in #7: Buff/Rework all of 'em

#12

K4ziuHa

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i dont think that would be healthy tho
Its really hard to make a non dive duelist good without making them

Too op in ranked
Extremely selfish

#13

Marshal_D_Teach

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~~FUCK RANKEDS~~

#15

K4ziuHa

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i mean as much as i hate reyna, iso, jett, chamber, clove(whentheycantsmoke), phornix players you need to agree its vals main market

#14

Anguibok

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How would you remake them to be viable ? Smokes and Initiation seems so mush better, up Yoru to make him a good diver and turn other flasher into initiator is the only way to make them play.

The problems of flasher is that duelist flasher are only viable in soloQ where they are no cordination, and flasher initiator are only viable in proplay because of coordination, so the only way to make them biable is to standardize their flash making breach blend with other duelflash

#11

K4ziuHa

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why did i read catégorie with french accent 😭
(duolingo paid off)

#16

Anguibok

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AHAHAHA my faut, I litterally putted an accent on it XD

#8

same

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I feel like this has been a thing for a while. You can look at a lot of "top duelists from the past", i.e., TenZ, yay, Demon1. They had players on the Roster that played Entry for them while they play the more passive trading role. It's the reason a lot of these players look a lot worse when they end up playing sole entry on the team.

It seems were currently in a meta where it's more important to be better the entry style then the trading style.

Also, you could just name the role Entry.

Also, a second note, this is the same in most roles. Init has Recon/flash. Controller has orb/wall smokes. Sent kinda has an exception with Chamber, but most just lockdown sites.

#17

Aayan

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so basically give non dive duellists their own class?
I think it makes sense but I don't really think it's that big of a problem

#18

Marshal_D_Teach

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And Buff/rework them, coz they are trash at this point

#19

alchemy02

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Glad someone mentioned this, this is literally how Optic was good in 22', you have to put your best aimer in good probability gunfights as often as possible. I think Fnatic's Haven comp is a good example, having a player like Alfajer just follow up the entry + shield, I think it could work very well. Defense half would be tough though.