ascension question

#1

Aayan

Given the new rules, it's theoretically possible to have no team ascend into tier 1 right? Or is my understanding of the rules incorrect.

Say 1 team makes champs, so they are locked in to stay. Then the other team battles through and wins ascension, wouldn't this mean all of the t2 teams played a whole year for nothing?

#2

snowconedeity

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It depends, not for this year at least but say if M80 places 8th next year and DZ wins ascension; they would have to play for that spot and if M80 won then yeah no one that year would qualify

#3

Aayan

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yeah sorry, I should've mentioned it's not for this year, but going forward.

but damn that would suck (unless you are an M80 fan), imo we need like 4 teams ascended to make that less of a possibility

#4

Mortadelo

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That is also how I interpret it yes. The only way this wouldn't be the case if the format specifies only the higher placed of the 2 ascension teams gets to retain spot/go to ascension, and the other one descends no matter what. Which could be in the rules I don't really remember

What I do know for sure is if both teams make champs, they don't both get to keep the spot without going though Ascension

#5

snowconedeity

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they automatically descend from T1 if they don’t make playoffs, so for instance BLEED and M8 would have been knocked down to tier 2 this year

#6

Aayan

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Oh damn, I like the fact that you can get demoted if you don't make playoffs at all. But if a team can make playoffs in tier 1 surely they would be favourites in a tier 2 tournament like ascension? That also raises questions about the format, what if two teams don't make playoffs? then will there be an odd number of teams at ascension? that would mess up the format

#7

snowconedeity

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i guess that’s what we will have to wait and see, imo i think it would be great if instead of the ascension team fighting the ascended team they picked the bottom placing team (like Mibr) and did the same thing, cus otherwise honestly i think it would be hard for other teams to ascend after a while, I mean maybe groups like DZ and OXG could’ve and it might encourage T2 to improve but it’s hard to say

#18

Mortadelo

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Yeah Ik, I might have not been clear about what I was saying.

I’m saying in the scenario he gave there might be a chance where if you make playoffs but the other team places higher than you, you get automatically relegated. But idk, I’m speculating

#8

Denjisideals

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If that is so, then it's fucked. How much do they even hate the tier 2 scene that no tier 2 makes it unless a former tier 2 teams fails horribly. It's just insane and truthfully disrespectful

#9

IonlywatchvcjXD

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They need stability, if hypothetically sentinels got demoted tomorrow in place of Squirtle squad majority wouldn't watch vct anymore.

Unless you are a streamer org like murash or riddle. There's a lot of good reason why riot should kick your team if it means the scene would survive another year.

#10

Aayan

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Stability is cool and all, but I think they could easily get away with 3-4 ascension teams instead of 2, they could still have 12 teams and make it work.

#13

IonlywatchvcjXD

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If that means contracted orgs are still at the risks of being demoted then it's still not a good look for riot😅

#14

Aayan

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The thing is I read somewhere that the original contracts are ending this off season, plus we are finally getting to the 12 teams, so it might be the perfect time to re-sign 8 of the teams with the partnership contract, and just sign whoever was misbehaving from the original 10 as an ascended contract

#16

IonlywatchvcjXD

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I thought the original contract was supposed to last till 2027 😅

#11

Denjisideals

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But think of it from Tier 2 perspective. You work a whole year and (I don't know how much of this is true or if it's being misinterpreted) it all goes to vein because the teams which won ascension the years prior played well and made sure to keep their spot. Like it's a lose lose situation

#15

IonlywatchvcjXD

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Brother the moment you created an esports org you are already in a lose lose situation 😭.

There's not really a lot riot can do.
You can't relegate contracted teams because doing that is just a bad look for riot.

At the same time if you are too harsh on winning ascension teams like if g2 are being told to get relegated tomorrow even though they just won champions ( hypothetically) then there's no point in playing all the way from t2 just to get relegated next year.

#23

Denjisideals

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It is 100% Riot's fault. There is no sense in making the tier 1 exclusive to 12 teams but here we are.

#19

TM06Nick

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they got lazy and capped the leagues at 12 teams each when they previously said they would go to 14 or beyond

#12

Nef0r0

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why is riot so interested in turning away all the tier 2 orgs and killing the future of the pro scene

#17

LycheeBlade

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This all reads like the MLS system and not in a good way. Eventually there will be no Ascension path and instead an org just needs to pay Riot X thousand/million dollars to get into VCT.

#20

badvibrations

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That's a possible scenario, yeah

#21

Zaphkiel

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This is why relegation needs to be a thing in tier 1, any team that goes to champs rightfully deserves their spot in the tier 1 scene. I don't wanna mention the teams but there're notably some that're extremely dumb wrt financial decisions as well as succeeding in any way. Might've come very controversial but just my opinion (didn't take franchising into account that's just pay to play shit)

#22

DuD5K1S

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Someone talks about ascension? I have been summoned.
It is possible, but there are 4 leagues, so both ascension teams from all 4 regions need to make it to champs, then the team from each region that is sent to the Ascension tournament need to win the ascension tournament.
Or more likely, both Ascension teams make playoffs (neither make champs), and both are sent to the tournament, and both Ascend