that replay was bs.

#1

ptrlol

Clearly kj fked up by overrelying on turret to check for 2 chokepoints (garden and heaven)...

Also any kj player knows that the turret has a slight delay upon identifying and shooting the player and has a 3 shot burst. Omen was identified, but as soon as he was identified, he ran behind a wall, so the turret shot its 1st shot at that wall then repositioned to its normal placement and finished its 2 shot burst. Then, Omen swung and destroyed kj turret during its delay. It was just incredible timing by Omen and poor turret placement by KJ. How the hell was that a bug? If this was, indeed, a bug, then KJ's turret needs a complete rework as it worked as it had always intended... I think someone on Riot was just a huge fan of Xset and/or Riot wanted to push the DRX vs. Xset rivalry so the arbiters gave biased judgments in favor Xset. Either way, this was not cool at all. Fortunately, the proper victor won in the end.

#2

Faraday

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Players use the abilities in the game and the abilities don't have the intended or consistent mechanic expected.

Are you retarded

#6

ptrlol

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Can you read before calling someone a retard?
I'm arguing that this mechanism of KJ turret has always been part of the game so it's incredibly unprofessional of Riot to try to "address" this 2 years after the fact in an important tournament. KJ players have went around this by having the turret focus on 1 chokepoint to not give confusing info, such as what happened in this game.

#7

Faraday

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It's a bug regardless of whether or not players play around it, although I have my doubts that any players actually place KJ turrets with that in mind. XSET are fully justified in replaying the match is there is a bug, the bug destroyed competitive integrity, that 'unprofessional decision' was the only way the restore it

#10

ptrlol

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Any KJ main should be able to tell you that the mechanism of the turret allows for things like this to happen since: a) it ALWAYS shoots 3 bursts and b) it repositions once enemies are out of sight. Why don't YOU explain how it's a bug given how the turret was scripted and my expanation for what happened, instead of using ad hominems and insisting it's a bug just because Riot claimed it was.

#11

jawn

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so riot games, the company that CREATED the game is somehow a less reliable source than your dumbass? oh please

#12

Faraday

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It's a bug because it's not the intended mechanic
If you claim it's a feature not a bug because it's in the game, then what even is a bug, all bugs are just the written code playing out, not magic coming from nowhere.
Give me a definition of bug that doesn't include the turret

#15

ptrlol

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Instead of giving vague responses, such as it's an "unintended mechancism," why don't you explain clearly how it is a bug?
How do we know what's intended or not given this feature of the turret is pretty common knowledge and players have worked around it. It would be as if Riot, all of a sudden, demanded Grim walls are a bug as it was an "unintended mechanic" despite the fact that people have used it for 2 years and there aren't any features to deter users from doing it.
I've also provided a more thorough explanation to blizzard on why the turret mechanic isn't a "bug."

#18

Faraday

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A bug is an unintended mechanic, you can say that's vague and I agree the line is not crystal clear but I think the turret which is written in game 'FIRE to deploy a turret that automatically fires at enemies in a 180 degree cone.', yet fires at nothing is clearly unintended and a bug.
Why can't you give me a definition of a 'bug' that doesn't include the turret?

#21

ptrlol

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I've already explained why in my reply to blizzard. The 3 shot burst fire from the turret is not absolute, as it is trivial to dodge the turret - just jiggle peek a turret after it fires its first shot. Furthermore, if the turret looks too left or right, it repositions. These are features of the turret everyone, with some game knowledge, knew about in the game, just like using a Grim wall, and players had to work around it. It is, then, illogical for Riot to claim it is a bug, much like how it would be illogical to say Grim walls are a bug since it has been a feature of the game for 2 years now.

#22

absrage

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How are you trying to argue with the people who coded the game whether it's a bug or not. If you don't have access to the source code there's no way to know, and in the descriptions of the abilities, it isn't listed how the turret actually works. Your point about grim walls is true, this is a riot's game they know what they coded in or not. It's up to them how the game is intended to be played, and they still leave mechanics like super dashing and exploit cams in the game because it's hard to patch, but it's still not allowed in the VCT.

#23

ptrlol

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Just relying on your argument because Riot said so is called appeals to authority, and that's a fallacy. I'm not disputing the fact that there was a replay or the fact that Riot is able to make their own decisions in their tournament. What I am doing is questioning their judgment. Just as if Riot can come up and say Grim walls are a bug, no one or at least I am not disputing that they can't do that; I'm saying that doesn't mean it's justified or it's logical.

#24

absrage

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I'll agree that the grim wall part is appealing to authority, while Grim walls would be not logical (which is why they haven't removed them btw), you can't make the claim that the way the turret operated was not a bug that they haven't ironed out without knowing the code itself.

#25

ptrlol

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Dude... no one in this thread has provided a single argument that that turret "bug" was a bug except for saying Riot said so or by giving vague statements, so still appeals to authority. And what I'm saying is not voodoo science, it's quite literally testable: go into customs with a friend, play in practice mode, or play KJ for a while and you'll realize these are just the regular mechanics of the turret. It's just that, in this instance, 2 unreliable features of the turret triggered simulatenously which gave a "bug-like" response, but it's not a bug.
If this were a bug, you quite literally can't jiggle peek a turret that's standing adjecent to you since it will continue to replicate what happened in the tourney. And for Riot to blame FPX for that is EXTREMELY foolish since it's what they coded.

continue thread →

#33

geckox1

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prtlol is right, this wasn't really a bug
the turret has always worked like that

Valorant Alchemy a.k.a Valorant Ascended's other channel has already explained why that round shouldn't have been replayed
( https://youtu.be/xeJ8x89XkwU )

#35

ptrlol

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Exactly, when I was KJ main, I just assumed it was part of the turret kit since it has been like this ever since beta. It's so sad that such an easily verifiable thing isn't being verified by anyone. They just need to enter customs and jiggle peek the turret from its side and voila, lo and behold, the turret bug!

#3

zeldrols

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yeah everyone agreed its bs that riot made both teams replay that lol

#8

ptrlol

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Haven't seen how the teams have responded, so I'll take your word for it. I'm glad both sides have acknowledged this was a bs decision. Riot needs a firm explanation.

#17

GoddamnSucker

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AT LEAST THEIRS BEEN TWO NOT HUMAN RECORDS MADE IN CHAMPIONS.

Ace on Ropes by Crashies
Losing twice in losers bracket
These two things ain’t never happening ever in Lan events unless teams are brain dead.

#4

blizzard

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most braindead post I have seen today

Registered: September 13, 2022

#9

ptrlol

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What a braindead response.
If I see a large video game company make such an egregious decision officially, I'm going to make an account to complain about it. This is the first time I've seen something like this happen in the Val tourny scene, which is why I made my account today...
edit: grammar

#13

blizzard

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a bug with the turret made it incorrectly shoot a bullet at a place where there was no one. your post is blaming the killjoy player for using his utility to help him hold areas of the site. he isn't "overrelying", he is using his utility to help win one of the most important rounds of the series

#14

ptrlol

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No, that's not a bug. A bug is an unintended response where it defies the regular physics or properties of the game, e.g., a physical wall can be glitched into. KJ's turret was not like this. KJ's turret has specific properties that also makes it unreliable in certain cases, e.g., if a turret sees an opponent it won't shoot them 3 times absolutely as there is a delay for not only each burst shot, but the moment the turret is alerted. Furthermore, once the enemies go out of sight/range, the turret repositions itself. What happened was that the turret repositioned itself mid-burst, which is a culmination of 2 properties that the turret already had. How can you say that's a bug? If you are unfamiliar with KJ mechanics, hop into practice with bots or enter customs with a friend.

If you use KJ turret beyond 1 chokepoint for direct info, you are overrelying on it. KJ turrent isn't and wasn't intended to be the most reliable information util due to aforementioned. That's why if you want 100% information, put your turret on flank or a single chokepoint and ensure your enemies can't bypass its sight via smokes or tp.

#26

array

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Have to say your points make a lot of sense.

#29

ptrlol

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Thanks, I appreciate you for taking the time to actually read what I wrote.

#32

array

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I took your word for it, I am very casual valorant enjoyer, do not go deep into all the dramas, etc. Looked at the clip since vlr made an article about it. Doesnt look like turret was even close to covering both angles, seems to me that it should have covered only heaven, havent it? If that is the case which looks like it is then it really bugged out completely.

Plus it turned for last two shots even though the omen was visible the whole time since first shot was made which would not happen if enemy is visible. Not sure what is the visibility covering range of turret but it looks like it turned more than 90 degrees if 0 degrees is looking completely straight. And I dont think the covering range extends that much

#34

ptrlol

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It definitely was in range of doors. Since you're a casual enjoyer, you won't understand my argument like the rest of the people in this thread (don't want to sound pretentious, but it seems a lot of people here do not understand the turret mechanics). You'd need to go into customs and jiggle peek or strafe the turret from its direct side (do not stand in front of it) and this "bug" will be easy to replicate. It also has been like this since beta.

#38

array

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Well, I get your points, but there's no way it is an intended mechanic for turret.

Also you did not address this: It turned for last two shots even though the omen was visible the whole time. What is that about? Did he went out of the range exactly after the first shot so it turned straight? Even if the answer is yes, then it still would make much more sense for it to shoot to the same direction even if it cant turn that much behind it. If you do a quick peek around the corner and bait a turret shot it still shoots to the same corner you went behind without reseting its possition to 0 degrees for remaining shots.

#39

ptrlol

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How can you say it's not an "intended mechanic" for a turret when it has been like this for 2 years? It would be like saying the bounce on the Brimstone or Viper molly wasn't intended. Like, how would we know that something as common, noticeable, and part of the agent for 2 years (for the people who play the agents frequently, at least) wasn't "intended."

It turned for last two shots even though the omen was visible the whole time.

It does that sometimes when you jiggle peek it; the turret had never perfectly shot towards people reliably when they get in and out of its view. However, any person, especially a pro player would have known this. They would know this mechanic like knowing that a Brimstone molly bounces.
Based on your reply, it seems like you haven't tested it out in customs so I highly encourage you to actually verify what I'm saying in customs, as experiencing it yourself explains better than what I'm putting in words. Then, you'll get a good idea of how shitty the turret acted from the get-go and how ridiculous it is for Riot to replay a match for something as common as literally jiggle peeking a turret on its side.

You don't even have to replicate what happened in the game, just jiggle peek a turret from the side, switch up the timing of your peeks, and see how janky the turret becomes. Remind yourself that it has been this way for 2 years. 2. years.

#5

GuardiaN_the_GOAT

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I AM DYING FOR A RICHARD LEWIS/THOORIN VIDEO ON THIS

#16

duchesssx

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i remember in cs 1.6 they wouldn't even replay for nuke box bug. the team that did it accidental or not would just lose every round after that.

#19

100TBoeJiden

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can people stop using the b word? b*****ead is such a toxic and derogatory word

#20

Faraday

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yeah, it's disrespectful to people that have to live life being brain dead, SEN flairs already live such a hard life, why make it worse

#36

bonkbonk

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This whole situation just reminds me of what happened with vivo keyd vs acend which would then go on to be their only good win period.. this time somehow even with like 5 chances xset still couldn't win because they were just worse, but there just seems to be a long history of teams getting decisions made after games or decisions made when they shouldn't be getting made, like if riot wanted to make the decision for the camera placement, they should of noticed it the first round it was done and said "ok we'll take this round away, don't do it again", but instead they chose to let them keep doing it and then screwed them over after the game was done. which with every sense of "competitive integrity" in mind, is just stupid.

with this situation, if it was a bug it should have been fixed, which is probably why riot rushed to say "WE REPLAY IT", instead of actually just doing what they were supposed to do months ago, which is fix the bug,

TL:DR
If u want a good competitive environment or integrity for decisions made, the best thing to do is not have to make decisions, riot should of fixed the cypher bugs in the spots they knew about before the vivo game, and they should have fixed the kj "bug" for the whole year or so it's been out for, It's not about anything other than riots incompetency to fix bugs.

The reason for quotations around "bug", is because the turret has always worked and has intended to work this way, so it's not a bug imo

#37

ptrlol

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The only reason why I'd give Riot some leniency with the VK decision is because apparently there were 2 games prior where Riot punished/warned players for putting cams out of bound. So, if I were VK coach, I should have followed the tourny scene to have known it would questionable to put cypher cams even remotely "oob" and would not have risked it at all in tourny. With that said, this turret "bug" was a mechanism for the turret for 2 years and players had to work around it. Furthermore, it's way too easy for the "bug" to occur because all a player has to do is to jiggle peek it from the turret's side. At this point, since Riot ignored "the bug" ever since the turret was introduced, it just is what the turret does. So, yeah, you're right. Not only was the decision unprofessional, but absolutely stupid.