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LOUD lack nuance [VCT BR]

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#1
FerahgoTheGreat

TLDR: LOUD have good macro tactics, but they lack midround adaptation.

LOUD just beat Liberty and basically guaranteed themselves a bye in the BR playoffs. This win did not come without some serious weaknesses in their game being exposed. LOUD have the best average individual skill across the team out of anyone in BR, and contrary to popular belief, they have relatively good teamplay. However, they did struggle with the cohesive nature of Liberty's tactics. It took some miracle plays to rescue the final map, and besides one stretch of rounds on Haven, LOUD never strung together a lot of rounds despite making good plays in most rounds. The problem that I see comes down to the nuance of their strategy. LOUD have excellent set plays with macro level executes and micro level utility combos, however the midround and adaptations are lackluster.

1) Adaptation
While writing this, I saw a clip from the latest Platchat episode where they basically said the same thing. When rounds are thrown into disarray, LOUD's utility and timing break down. There is a clip at 1:31:45 which shows an example of their lack of direction in midrounds. I think it is particularly visible when opponents make aggressive defensive plays with utility. When people criticize LOUD for their individual play it is these situations that are usually pointed to. On the defense, LOUD have very good

2) Variation
LOUD's macro plays match up fairly well with other good teams. However, once they get stopped, they often flounder. The best example I can think of is their Ascent attack. They set up 4 players towards A at least 80% of all rounds. Liberty decided to punish this by taking mid in a couple of crucial rounds and by continuously leaving only one or zero players B to fend off Less's lurk. I had this problem with the Saadhak led Vikings last year as well where when their initial plays didn't work and they ended up completely zoned by utility or a player down, their next moves were so much less potent. LOUD are keeping more opposite side map control than Vikings used to, so the rotations are better, but they still struggle to outmaneuver opponents if they lose the initial engagement.

My grades on individual performance:
Aspas 8/10: He has been excellent in the entry department and don't believe people that say he cannot play with the team. He is almost always working in tandem with another player and is usually directly opening space that is critical for what the team is doing like site executes. He is however, the biggest culprit of losing discipline in midrounds. His individual form has been good but not great against the good teams, but he should pad the stats until playoffs.
pancada 7/10: A top tier site anchor and one of the best mechanically gifted controllers.
Sacy 7/10: He has been somewhat disappointing so far. In particular, he is often part of the groups of LOUD players that are caught pushing together without clearing separate angles. He plays with his team a lot, but it feels like they need more practice being methodical.
Less 7/10: A young question mark, he has stepped up fairly well. His awareness at times can be lacking, but the gamble on him looks like it will pay off.
Saadhak 6/10: As an IGL and someone who takes a lot of entry fights, his anticipation of coordinated enemy plays has been rough. A lot of LOUD's tactical struggles fall on him to call

#2
not_toxic_at_all
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W research

#3
davmg
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W thread

#4
inlucid
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bump!

#5
Asphyxia
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Less looks very good imo. I think he will be the best Sentinel in BR by far eventually. He was the only one I haven't heard of before, but he really is just consistently good. Aspas and most of the others weren't too much of a surprise for me, but as you said, the gamble paid off.

LOUD will def become the superteam of BR for at least the majority of 2022 probably if they continue to improve.

#6
kwe
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Nice thread man

#7
gtngodyorukingdestruction
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loud need a coach

#8
FerahgoTheGreat
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Asphyxia [#5]

Less looks very good imo. I think he will be the best Sentinel in BR by far eventually. He was the only one I haven't heard of before, but he really is just consistently good. Aspas and most of the others weren't too much of a surprise for me, but as you said, the gamble paid off.

LOUD will def become the superteam of BR for at least the majority of 2022 probably if they continue to improve.

Yeah, there is no individual piece that needs to be changed. The other good BR teams fall off hard if their best players have a bad game, but LOUD are just so good across the board. The only change that I could see happening is a change based on tactics such as a coach change or IGL change with Saadhak going back to sentinel (or just flexing). I don't see any good replacements for either position and don't think it is necessary yet. Its a shame the groups are so lopsided and we won't see LOUD tested again until playoffs.

#9
Y4VN
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gtngodyorukingdestruction [#7]

loud need a coach

too bad their supposed coach hates getting that 5G microchip bill gates buff

#10
SeulgiVLR
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good writeup
with what you say, it feels very similar to drx in which the team is well structured in terms of firepower, tactics, and set plays, except losing heavily in midrounding, it just takes time to reflect in order to do so which drx is improving on
id say loud will improve with time and results, the team has some amateurish players still who need time to fully set themselves as a consistent team in all accords, and considering the amount of teams around them, theyll definitely be able to improve through more practice/scrims :)

#11
FerahgoTheGreat
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SeulgiVLR [#10]

good writeup
with what you say, it feels very similar to drx in which the team is well structured in terms of firepower, tactics, and set plays, except losing heavily in midrounding, it just takes time to reflect in order to do so which drx is improving on
id say loud will improve with time and results, the team has some amateurish players still who need time to fully set themselves as a consistent team in all accords, and considering the amount of teams around them, theyll definitely be able to improve through more practice/scrims :)

Now that LOUD and DRX have the money behind them, it could be big if they were able to bootcamp for longer in EU before masters 1 if they qualify.

#12
SeulgiVLR
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FerahgoTheGreat [#11]

Now that LOUD and DRX have the money behind them, it could be big if they were able to bootcamp for longer in EU before masters 1 if they qualify.

drx bootcamped in germany for 2 weeks right before champions and got worse results than m3, imo both teams just need to reflect on their officials results for now

with the ignition-esque approach for this year, im sure that theyll get to participate in more tournaments that they couldnt take part in before which will definitely pay off for both teams

#13
FerahgoTheGreat
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SeulgiVLR [#12]

drx bootcamped in germany for 2 weeks right before champions and got worse results than m3, imo both teams just need to reflect on their officials results for now

with the ignition-esque approach for this year, im sure that theyll get to participate in more tournaments that they couldnt take part in before which will definitely pay off for both teams

DRX vs LOUD for the masters 1 title would be fun.

#14
AladdinINSANE
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Agreed!
The problem is:
I don't see them changing their coach.

In this case i would try to hire a good strategic coach..

#15
FerahgoTheGreat
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AladdinINSANE [#14]

Agreed!
The problem is:
I don't see them changing their coach.

In this case i would try to hire a good strategic coach..

Yeah, I think bzkA is great for the team atmosphere. I would like a secondary coach/analyst, but I don't know if they would necessarily have the authority to implement their system. Hopefully LOUD only need small adjustments and they don't get comfortable with what they have.

#16
Rabbiit
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Great post man, W

#17
makewar
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loud lost a lot when they lost onur. bzka is not that type of coach, he is not lead the team strategic, saadhak said on a interview that he is there to educate and control less and aspas. imo, loud should bring a strategic strong coach from EMEA

#18
ciro
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good writeup

#19
makewar
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AladdinINSANE [#14]

Agreed!
The problem is:
I don't see them changing their coach.

In this case i would try to hire a good strategic coach..

honestly, i do. bzka was a hot fix, a last minute patch when things went wrong with onur

#20
Mca
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FerahgoTheGreat [#13]

DRX vs LOUD for the masters 1 title would be fun.

Loud x Sen would be a fun match. Brazil wanting revenge for Reykjavik, even more with Shroud narrating It because of his livestream BMs from that time.

Aspas x TenZ would be a banger, the respective bests from each region, viewership would be nuts.

#21
Mca
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What do you think Loud could achieve If they fixed their main problems? Gambit level probably? In terms of tactic?

Actually, are you considering an Analysis for VK?

#22
FerahgoTheGreat
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Mca [#21]

What do you think Loud could achieve If they fixed their main problems? Gambit level probably? In terms of tactic?

Actually, are you considering an Analysis for VK?

I think they could definitely be Gambit level, but they need a lot of work to get to that level of prowess. I was waiting to do a VK analysis until they played another game or two.

#23
carl123
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FerahgoTheGreat [#22]

I think they could definitely be Gambit level, but they need a lot of work to get to that level of prowess. I was waiting to do a VK analysis until they played another game or two.

Gambit level ? too high. at least they have to try to beat NA and SEA first after VK lost to X10C 2-0 not even a close game also VKS lost to TS as well.

#24
FerahgoTheGreat
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carl123 [#23]

Gambit level ? too high. at least they have to try to beat NA and SEA first after VK lost to X10C 2-0 not even a close game also VKS lost to TS as well.

I mostly meant on an individual skill level they match gambit pretty well if not better. They are still nowhere close in terms of cohesiveness.

#25
melow
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What about phonics (ex-Australs coach)?
I think that he is better strategically than bzka

#26
LouBag
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Now I can pretend like I know what’s going on with loud!

Big W

#27
kzeriar
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melow [#25]

What about phonics (ex-Australs coach)?
I think that he is better strategically than bzka

Where is he now? I think he would be a great option

#28
melow
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kzeriar [#27]

Where is he now? I think he would be a great option

Still FA I think

#29
Mca
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FerahgoTheGreat [#8]

Yeah, there is no individual piece that needs to be changed. The other good BR teams fall off hard if their best players have a bad game, but LOUD are just so good across the board. The only change that I could see happening is a change based on tactics such as a coach change or IGL change with Saadhak going back to sentinel (or just flexing). I don't see any good replacements for either position and don't think it is necessary yet. Its a shame the groups are so lopsided and we won't see LOUD tested again until playoffs.

Less is the definition of no media, Big player.

#30
Mca
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Can you re-do this Analysis for Teams that classify for iceland?

#31
FerahgoTheGreat
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Mca [#30]

Can you re-do this Analysis for Teams that classify for iceland?

Yeah, I started with teams I watched the most, but now I realized I should be saving the teams that are likely to do good for later as they keep playing. I probably won't get to some of the teams in the group stage, but I will definitely go deeper into teams that qualify for LANs. Before Masters 1, I will do something with the teams that make it.

#32
Mca
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FerahgoTheGreat [#31]

Yeah, I started with teams I watched the most, but now I realized I should be saving the teams that are likely to do good for later as they keep playing. I probably won't get to some of the teams in the group stage, but I will definitely go deeper into teams that qualify for LANs. Before Masters 1, I will do something with the teams that make it.

Thank you friend 🙏

#33
ajwinner
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Do they still lack nuance?

#34
Cabarelson
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ajwinner [#33]

Do they still lack nuance?

I really want to see the grades he gave to the NA teams...

#35
koromast
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ajwinner [#33]

Do they still lack nuance?

bro replying to a post 10 months later is creepy af ngl

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