I think bang's celling is higher than Zander's but Zander is more consistent. Thoughts?
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bang vs zander debate
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gamergirl [#2]LOL man this is so disrespectful
for context bang is better in T1 than zander is in T2
you have no evidence to support that
J0zza [#3]you have no evidence to support that
??? zander hasn’t even played tier 1 in the longest time, saying he’s better than bang isn’t a fair point lol
catNmouse [#4]bang outperformed zander in trials
according to who? Platchat? they have no idea, they are just speculating
J0zza [#3]you have no evidence to support that
bang is a better player visually and his numbers in tier 1 are more impressive than zanders in tier 2
even if you take zanders 1.30 rating in NA t2, he put up like 1.09 in stage 2 and ascension, really not all that
bang is playing against aspas and zander playing against aspas from wish dantesdeus
Veri [#5]they dont even belong in the same statement my guy
Bang disgustingly clears
not even close
either you havent watched zander, of you are stupid, zander is really fucking good, believe me, I've watched every match of his for the past 2 years. He has consistently put up big numbers, even while IGLing
alex_lab [#7]according to who? Platchat? they have no idea, they are just speculating
according to one has the sen job and one has the 100t job
gamergirl [#10]according to one has the sen job and one has the 100t job
Ok you are so bias against Zander it’s getting ridiculous. Wtf did he do, steal your lunch money? Or do you just have a crush on him?
Either way, anything you say regarding Zander is nullified by the fact that you’ve been talking shit about him for the past two months
alex_lab [#12]Ok you are so bias against Zander it’s getting ridiculous. Wtf did he do, steal your lunch money? Or do you just have a crush on him?
Either way, anything you say regarding Zander is nullified by the fact that you’ve been talking shit about him for the past two months
ive also been talking shit about bang so thats how you know im 10000% objective,
you simply cant call a player in tier 2 going -14 to 2game better than someone whos going +20 against masters winners?
its not hard to comprehend the level difference, zander has to PROVE hes even a t1 player, because bro hasnt even earned it via ascension
but also flag + flair so i expect your dickriding
alex_lab [#9]either you havent watched zander, of you are stupid, zander is really fucking good, believe me, I've watched every match of his for the past 2 years. He has consistently put up big numbers, even while IGLing
i watched all of the ascension games he played and i can confirm he is really good. That being sad i dont think he compares to Bang at all. His Tier 2 perfomance is really good but you cannot act like what he's done in tier 2 is comparable to bang in tier 1. Maybe he proves himself next year but we shall wait before we compare him to the literal best controller of 2024 americas
Veri [#16]i watched all of the ascension games he played and i can confirm he is really good. That being sad i dont think he compares to Bang at all. His Tier 2 perfomance is really good but you cannot act like what he's done in tier 2 is comparable to bang in tier 1. Maybe he proves himself next year but we shall wait before we compare him to the literal best controller of 2024 americas
People haven’t learnt from mistic lmao
catNmouse [#17]People haven’t learnt from mistic lmao
bigstic and all other hardstuck t2 players shouldnt get another chance!
catNmouse [#14]is zander better than tenz?
Prolly not but sen don't even need someone of tenz level aggression. N4RRATE is coming to compensate that, bang is more than enough to cover up for Sen's smokes vacancy
sergueiessenine [#13]bang (t1 proven player) and zander (t2 hardstuck) do not belong in the same conversation
Not sure if choosing to remain in challengers is hardstuck
gamergirl [#15]ive also been talking shit about bang so thats how you know im 10000% objective,
you simply cant call a player in tier 2 going -14 to 2game better than someone whos going +20 against masters winners?
its not hard to comprehend the level difference, zander has to PROVE hes even a t1 player, because bro hasnt even earned it via ascension
but also flag + flair so i expect your dickriding
Interesting because bang also went -10 in a game against Oxygen, in fact Zander went +4 against that same Oxygen… Well according to your logic, this means Zander is MUCH better than bang right?
Idk wtf you’re taking about but you do understand that tier1 and tier 2 are separated by an artificial line that riot made? You do understand that G2 came from tier 2 and had a really good year? You do understand that valorant esports didn’t start with partnership, and that Zander AND bang were playing in the same tournaments before partnership?
You are so influenced by the term “tier 1” that you just stopped thinking I guess but yeah my flag and flair show that I actually watched the games with Zander, did you? Because a lot of the arguments you make are very heavily vlr stats related, almost as if you’re just talking out of your ass
gamergirl [#15]ive also been talking shit about bang so thats how you know im 10000% objective,
you simply cant call a player in tier 2 going -14 to 2game better than someone whos going +20 against masters winners?
its not hard to comprehend the level difference, zander has to PROVE hes even a t1 player, because bro hasnt even earned it via ascension
but also flag + flair so i expect your dickriding
cooked his ass
Veri [#16]i watched all of the ascension games he played and i can confirm he is really good. That being sad i dont think he compares to Bang at all. His Tier 2 perfomance is really good but you cannot act like what he's done in tier 2 is comparable to bang in tier 1. Maybe he proves himself next year but we shall wait before we compare him to the literal best controller of 2024 americas
Best controller of 2024 Americas? Maybe Split 1 but overall I'm giving it to Kingg
alex_lab [#21]Interesting because bang also went -10 in a game against Oxygen, in fact Zander went +4 against that same Oxygen… Well according to your logic, this means Zander is MUCH better than bang right?
Idk wtf you’re taking about but you do understand that tier1 and tier 2 are separated by an artificial line that riot made? You do understand that G2 came from tier 2 and had a really good year? You do understand that valorant esports didn’t start with partnership, and that Zander AND bang were playing in the same tournaments before partnership?
You are so influenced by the term “tier 1” that you just stopped thinking I guess but yeah my flag and flair show that I actually watched the games with Zander, did you? Because a lot of the arguments you make are very heavily vlr stats related, almost as if you’re just talking out of your ass
are you pulling offseason games lol
tier 2 isnt an imaginary line, its a skill gap and competition difference, it existed before franchising, and yes zander was tier 1! he was ass!
what you're saying is the premier league and championship is an imaginary line, its not
G2 also made changes from their T2 run team to get to that amazing run
J0zza [#23]Best controller of 2024 Americas? Maybe Split 1 but overall I'm giving it to Kingg
yeah i mean its debatable between king valyn and bang but i think bang's impact on his team for his role is much higher than the other two so i would give it to him
Veri [#16]i watched all of the ascension games he played and i can confirm he is really good. That being sad i dont think he compares to Bang at all. His Tier 2 perfomance is really good but you cannot act like what he's done in tier 2 is comparable to bang in tier 1. Maybe he proves himself next year but we shall wait before we compare him to the literal best controller of 2024 americas
Tier 1 vs tier 2. I get it, one of them has a 1 meaning obviously tier 2 teams are complete dogshit compared to tier1, right?
Except didn’t G2 come from tier 2 and make an international final this year? Is it not true that teams like MXS and OXG have actually beat “tier 1” teams in the offseason? Is it not also true that players like rossy, Ban, Governor came from middling tier 2 NA teams to prove themselves as good tier 1 pros? I it not also true that Zander and bang used to play in the same tournament before partnership?
So if middling tier 2 NA players could make it to champs last year, is it that far fetched to put the best player on the best NA tier 2 team, two years in a row, in the same conversation as a good tier 1 pro? I don’t think it’s that outrageous no
alex_lab [#26]Tier 1 vs tier 2. I get it, one of them has a 1 meaning obviously tier 2 teams are complete dogshit compared to tier1, right?
Except didn’t G2 come from tier 2 and make an international final this year? Is it not true that teams like MXS and OXG have actually beat “tier 1” teams in the offseason? Is it not also true that players like rossy, Ban, Governor came from middling tier 2 NA teams to prove themselves as good tier 1 pros? I it not also true that Zander and bang used to play in the same tournament before partnership?
So if middling tier 2 NA players could make it to champs last year, is it that far fetched to put the best player on the best NA tier 2 team, two years in a row, in the same conversation as a good tier 1 pro? I don’t think it’s that outrageous no
instead of saying narrate you put up those hideous twins ban governor and rossy jesus christ
please stop now
gamergirl [#27]instead of saying narrate you put up those hideous twins ban governor and rossy jesus christ
please stop now
Thanks for furthering my argument, I actually forgot about narrate who was on the worst tier 2 NA team and became one of the best players in the EMEA league in 2024, you are so right thanks
alex_lab [#26]Tier 1 vs tier 2. I get it, one of them has a 1 meaning obviously tier 2 teams are complete dogshit compared to tier1, right?
Except didn’t G2 come from tier 2 and make an international final this year? Is it not true that teams like MXS and OXG have actually beat “tier 1” teams in the offseason? Is it not also true that players like rossy, Ban, Governor came from middling tier 2 NA teams to prove themselves as good tier 1 pros? I it not also true that Zander and bang used to play in the same tournament before partnership?
So if middling tier 2 NA players could make it to champs last year, is it that far fetched to put the best player on the best NA tier 2 team, two years in a row, in the same conversation as a good tier 1 pro? I don’t think it’s that outrageous no
tier 2 is not as good as tier 1 little bro stop it.
g2 improved MASSIVELY since they ascended anyone can see that, youre acting like they ascended and immediatly finished top 3 in shanghai. G2 was struggling to win agaisnt fucking MIBR in kickoff, they had to drop neT (who now failed to ascend ironically) and improve a lot to even stand a chance.
Calling rossy, Ban and Governor "proven good t1 players" is very questionable
Also i cannot believe youre using offseason tournaments as an argument right now
gamergirl [#24]are you pulling offseason games lol
tier 2 isnt an imaginary line, its a skill gap and competition difference, it existed before franchising, and yes zander was tier 1! he was ass!
what you're saying is the premier league and championship is an imaginary line, its not
G2 also made changes from their T2 run team to get to that amazing run
Yes G2 made changes, so what? We are talking about 1 player playing in tier 1. The 3 players that stayed still made it to the final no? Or maybe you are attributing their success to icy.
And yes of course, it a skill gap, because moose could not be replaced by another tier 2 player, of course. And apoth could certainly not have been replaced by another tier 2 player, you are so right, these players have a fucking skill gap…
alex_lab [#31]Yes G2 made changes, so what? We are talking about 1 player playing in tier 1. The 3 players that stayed still made it to the final no? Or maybe you are attributing their success to icy.
And yes of course, it a skill gap, because moose could not be replaced by another tier 2 player, of course. And apoth could certainly not have been replaced by another tier 2 player, you are so right, these players have a fucking skill gap…
nah but leaf is really good
of course there are good players in tier 2, im just saying they have to prove it in tier 1 is all
you can say zander has more potential than bang tbh, thats your opinion, he is objectively not as consistent though, he doesnt have the chance to be, his opponents are far worse and less structured
gamergirl [#32]nah but leaf is really good
of course there are good players in tier 2, im just saying they have to prove it in tier 1 is all
you can say zander has more potential than bang tbh, thats your opinion, he is objectively not as consistent though, he doesnt have the chance to be, his opponents are far worse and less structured
Fair enough, you want players to prove themselves in tier 1 before comparing them to other tier 1 players. That’s fair, I just hate the narrative that because Zander was in tier 2, he can’t even be put in the same conversation to bang
J0zza [#20]Not sure if choosing to remain in challengers is hardstuck
we're not gonna call losing back to back ascension grand finals "choosing to remain in challengers" 😭😭😭🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️🕊️
Veri [#30]tier 2 is not as good as tier 1 little bro stop it.
g2 improved MASSIVELY since they ascended anyone can see that, youre acting like they ascended and immediatly finished top 3 in shanghai. G2 was struggling to win agaisnt fucking MIBR in kickoff, they had to drop neT (who now failed to ascend ironically) and improve a lot to even stand a chance.
Calling rossy, Ban and Governor "proven good t1 players" is very questionable
Also i cannot believe youre using offseason tournaments as an argument right now
Listen I know tier 1 and 2 aren’t the same obviously. I’m just saying that some players that came from tier 2 were capable of being very good. Narrate, and the former The Guard players are just examples of that. Also yes the former The Guard would NOT have done anywhere as good the way they were playing before, and with the players they had before. My point is just that the idea that Zander and bang are similar, and even making the argument that Zander is better in some aspects is not that crazy JUST because Zander was playing in tier 2
completely different types of players, if you look at the type of player sentinels want in that smokes roles you want a player like bang who is more explosive similar to tenz compared to the slower, consistent style zander plays (even though bang was kind of more consistent this year, probably due to zander having to pick up igl)
alex_lab [#33]Fair enough, you want players to prove themselves in tier 1 before comparing them to other tier 1 players. That’s fair, I just hate the narrative that because Zander was in tier 2, he can’t even be put in the same conversation to bang
Yeah that’s fine, i don’t hate zander btw he can be great butI hate that people instantly overrate him in the sense that he’s better than bang this and that, bang is proven in tier 1 zander has not. Also there is a chance he could end up like mistic so
alex_lab [#35]Listen I know tier 1 and 2 aren’t the same obviously. I’m just saying that some players that came from tier 2 were capable of being very good. Narrate, and the former The Guard players are just examples of that. Also yes the former The Guard would NOT have done anywhere as good the way they were playing before, and with the players they had before. My point is just that the idea that Zander and bang are similar, and even making the argument that Zander is better in some aspects is not that crazy JUST because Zander was playing in tier 2
Ok fair enough. Im only saying they are not comparable from a carrier achievments and level of competition stand-point. Zander certainly has the potential to be just as good as Bang but at this very moment i dont think this is a fair comparison. That being sad i hope Zander does good in Tier 1 so that more teams realize that Tier 2 players are capable of thriving if given the right opportunity
J0zza [#3]you have no evidence to support that
?
You are typing in the forums of the website that has said "evidence". Unless you value T2 over T1, lol.
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