Again guys, I know you can't read so I made a video to open the debate (Don't point at the fact I speak English as good you can read)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IeyBlEZAY4s
So should Americas split in 2 region : Short answer no, not enough solid org, dillute the talent pool
opening any new region in vct is pointless right now, riot will not go to cis right now, and even if they did, there isn't enough talent, it is entirely in cs.
africa is baren land
SA and NA will struggle when separated, neither region can fill out 10 team leagues
Oceania is just too small
could argue for Korea, but then it makes pacfiic really small no?
Nef0r0 [#2]opening any new region in vct is pointless right now, riot will not go to cis right now, and even if they did, there isn't enough talent, it is entirely in cs.
africa is baren land
SA and NA will struggle when separated, neither region can fill out 10 team leagues
Oceania is just too small
could argue for Korea, but then it makes pacfiic really small no?
When you say VCT you mean T1 ? CIS will never have a T1 region for demographic region, but when the war is over they will definitly have a T2. If we talk about T2 I wouldnt be surprised if we have a 8th league this year to make the format easier (It can easer be CIS because this is a mess, Subsaharia, or officially split LNA and GCCI) because it will be easier for the format to have 8 region.
But yeat ATM I kinda agree that it's not possible to create another T1 region, as I say in my video it's dead for Americas, even for Korea i'm not convinced, 3 team seems ok for the moment, especially if none of them reach T1 threw ascention. I think the only short term solution in like... 2027, would be to make an "Undevelopped PC region T1 league", with MENA, Subsaharia and India, 3 team each doesnt sound that impossible, but doing that would be bad because they would stop to play good T1 team on stage.
I think an expansion to 16 team sounds more realistic, and il be the subject of my next vid
Anguibok [#4]When you say VCT you mean T1 ? CIS will never have a T1 region for demographic region, but when the war is over they will definitly have a T2. If we talk about T2 I wouldnt be surprised if we have a 8th league this year to make the format easier (It can easer be CIS because this is a mess, Subsaharia, or officially split LNA and GCCI) because it will be easier for the format to have 8 region.
But yeat ATM I kinda agree that it's not possible to create another T1 region, as I say in my video it's dead for Americas, even for Korea i'm not convinced, 3 team seems ok for the moment, especially if none of them reach T1 threw ascention. I think the only short term solution in like... 2027, would be to make an "Undevelopped PC region T1 league", with MENA, Subsaharia and India, 3 team each doesnt sound that impossible, but doing that would be bad because they would stop to play good T1 team on stage.
I think an expansion to 16 team sounds more realistic, and il be the subject of my next vid
I meant t1, but just expanding with leagues doesn't bring anything to riot right now
Nef0r0 [#5]I meant t1, but just expanding with leagues doesn't bring anything to riot right now
I agree now, but before franchising there was the possibility of T1 valorant growing enough to fill more leagues. Franchising actively killed most prospective T1 teams.
In NA (as an example), if franchising didn't happen, it might have had a 10-team league on its own with known orgs (think TSM, Shopify, Luminosity, etc... hell, maybe even GenG since they were in NA pre-franchising). LATAM would be a different thing since only KRU and LEV were (and still really are) the only good/well-known non-Brazilian teams, but a combined LATAM/BR league pre-franchising would've also worked (think LOUD+MIBR+FUR+Vivo Keyd/Keyd Stars for Brazil and orgs like KRU/LEV/RETA/AK/FUSION for the rest of LATAM)
There just isn't the money in T2 right now that would incentivize orgs into competing. Now that TSM is out of Ascension (example) I honestly predict they will drop the roster or have the roster bought out by another org.
The other regions I also agree but I don't have much knowledge about region strength. Korea and Japan could probably create their own league but then the rest of APAC would be in a weird limbo, and China still being separate still makes things awkward. EMEA is fine as is.
TL;DR we wouldn't have this discussion if Riot waited another year to start franchising, or if they didn't do franchising to begin with
LycheeBlade [#7]I agree now, but before franchising there was the possibility of T1 valorant growing enough to fill more leagues. Franchising actively killed most prospective T1 teams.
In NA (as an example), if franchising didn't happen, it might have had a 10-team league on its own with known orgs (think TSM, Shopify, Luminosity, etc... hell, maybe even GenG since they were in NA pre-franchising). LATAM would be a different thing since only KRU and LEV were (and still really are) the only good/well-known non-Brazilian teams, but a combined LATAM/BR league pre-franchising would've also worked (think LOUD+MIBR+FUR+Vivo Keyd/Keyd Stars for Brazil and orgs like KRU/LEV/RETA/AK/FUSION for the rest of LATAM)
There just isn't the money in T2 right now that would incentivize orgs into competing. Now that TSM is out of Ascension (example) I honestly predict they will drop the roster or have the roster bought out by another org.
The other regions I also agree but I don't have much knowledge about region strength. Korea and Japan could probably create their own league but then the rest of APAC would be in a weird limbo, and China still being separate still makes things awkward. EMEA is fine as is.
TL;DR we wouldn't have this discussion if Riot waited another year to start franchising, or if they didn't do franchising to begin with
you do understand so many orgs threw so much money at val ONLY because they knew franchising was coming? and throwing that money ENSURED they would get in?
Imo the league should at least move to 14 teams, increasing the partners to 12 and still having 2 slots for ascension.
I would also like the league to occasionally hold an Americas event in BR (like all the teams travel for one month BR to compete for stage 2 kinda thing, I just need to see some lans be held in other countries at least once a year)
Anzaldinho [#9]why was south america and north america combined into one clusterfuck anyway in the first place?
Because even in LoL havin one NA league with 12 team were not viable, and the first 2 year they were not enough talent for one unique league, BR had only LOUD that was competitive for exemple. Nobody can name any successful BR team beside LOUD (And VKS, but it was kinda LOUD hcore), same for Latam beside KRU and LEV
2021 :
Lets be honest, go back in 2021-2022, it's impossible to make a full region for SA, and even for NA I'm not that sure it's possible (especially while they are a huge crisis in NA LoL)
LycheeBlade [#7]I agree now, but before franchising there was the possibility of T1 valorant growing enough to fill more leagues. Franchising actively killed most prospective T1 teams.
In NA (as an example), if franchising didn't happen, it might have had a 10-team league on its own with known orgs (think TSM, Shopify, Luminosity, etc... hell, maybe even GenG since they were in NA pre-franchising). LATAM would be a different thing since only KRU and LEV were (and still really are) the only good/well-known non-Brazilian teams, but a combined LATAM/BR league pre-franchising would've also worked (think LOUD+MIBR+FUR+Vivo Keyd/Keyd Stars for Brazil and orgs like KRU/LEV/RETA/AK/FUSION for the rest of LATAM)
There just isn't the money in T2 right now that would incentivize orgs into competing. Now that TSM is out of Ascension (example) I honestly predict they will drop the roster or have the roster bought out by another org.
The other regions I also agree but I don't have much knowledge about region strength. Korea and Japan could probably create their own league but then the rest of APAC would be in a weird limbo, and China still being separate still makes things awkward. EMEA is fine as is.
TL;DR we wouldn't have this discussion if Riot waited another year to start franchising, or if they didn't do franchising to begin with
Look I'm not sure whether things have improved for korean t2 or not , but korea cannot sustain themselves, legit the only thing that got them going (from my eyes) are the talent pool that they have.
Not to mention they pay lower wages compared to japan and now everyone moves to japan, it sucks for Japan's developing scene
Yes, south america teams dont share the culture, lifestyle and arent even geographically close. It has no meaning to make only one region. The south america teams are really harmed in this system. China is one country and has a whole franchise for them.
Loud spent the whole year playing in Brazil, did just 2 bootcamps to diversify the oponent's strategy and they became world champions.
Riot, give us the South America franchise. We got big orgs that are in cs and havent come to valorant yet.
PlasmatheGoat [#10]Imo the league should at least move to 14 teams, increasing the partners to 12 and still having 2 slots for ascension.
- One Brazil org (There is lots talent in Brazil (lukxo and sato my goats specifically, they just need to be given more opportunities but bc of current nepotism and poor talent scouting it makes the situation look worse)
-One latam org (deserved imo based on results of Kru and Lev)
-G2 replace EGI would also like the league to occasionally hold an Americas event in BR (like all the teams travel for one month BR to compete for stage 2 kinda thing, I just need to see some lans be held in other countries at least once a year)
If we go to 16 maybe the solution is to make a South America group that owuld held in Sao Paulo ?
EnzoLS12 [#14]Yes, south america teams dont share the culture, lifestyle and arent even geographically close. It has no meaning to make only one region. The south america teams are really harmed in this system. China is one country and has a whole franchise for them.
Loud spent the whole year playing in Brazil, did just 2 bootcamps to diversify the oponent's strategy and they became world champions.
Riot, give us the South America franchise. We got big orgs that are in cs and havent come to valorant yet.
China is 1G pop, Americas on is whole is 1G pop too.
I don't think the south america have been harmed by the system, with the previous system BR could have only 1 competitive team, now 3 is possible because best BR player will have more training against more better team.
I admit T2 team not being able to scrim against T1 team might be a problem but not that mush, and they are other solution to solve that (like for exemple make geographical group instead of random group) and make the south group play in Sao Paolo, kinda like the conference System in US league.
In long term having 1 SA league will just make best SA team not able to play NA regularly, and will just slowly become less and less good because lack of good team to improve.
Anguibok [#18]China is 1G pop, Americas on is whole is 1G pop too.
I don't think the south america have been harmed by the system, with the previous system BR could have only 1 competitive team, now 3 is possible because best BR player will have more training against more better team.
I admit T2 team not being able to scrim against T1 team might be a problem but not that mush, and they are other solution to solve that (like for exemple make geographical group instead of random group) and make the south group play in Sao Paolo, kinda like the conference System in US league.
In long term having 1 SA league will just make best SA team not able to play NA regularly, and will just slowly become less and less good because lack of good team to improve.
Brazilian teams cant have the same investments as the US teams. The brazilian players are far away from home, away from the food they are used to eat, away from girlfriends, pets and everything else. They have to share a house with other players and most of them dont speak english. Imagine going to a restaurant and not beeing able to order for yourself. Yes, latam players are harmed by this system.
Back in 2021 it was way more fun to watch brazilian teams in Champs, even if they werent competitive. In 2024 we didnt have a single brazilian team.
And I'm not even mentioning what this brings to tier 2, every org from tier 2 is dropping off.
dort [#17]yes of course. i dont know why riot insists on associating north american teams with br0nzil and l0t0m teams. our skill level is incomparable
NA having only 6 slots is criminal
How many slot do you want ?
EnzoLS12 [#19]Brazilian teams cant have the same investments as the US teams. The brazilian players are far away from home, away from the food they are used to eat, away from girlfriends, pets and everything else. They have to share a house with other players and most of them dont speak english. Imagine going to a restaurant and not beeing able to order for yourself. Yes, latam players are harmed by this system.
Back in 2021 it was way more fun to watch brazilian teams in Champs, even if they werent competitive. In 2024 we didnt have a single brazilian team.
And I'm not even mentioning what this brings to tier 2, every org from tier 2 is dropping off.
"The brazilian players are far away from home, away from the food they are used to eat, away from girlfriends, pets and everything else. They have to share a house with other players"
Except if you are talking about Visa issue, all this part would be the same if T1 where in BR too.
"most of them dont speak english. Imagine going to a restaurant and not beeing able to order for yourself."
What bother me is that APAC doesnt complain being stranger in KR is probably worst than being stranger in USA, but I think in team you can at least have 1 people able to order food... No ?
"In 2024 we didnt have a single brazilian team."
Well, SA have 2 teams, so cant really blame fused league for that.
"And I'm not even mentioning what this brings to tier 2, every org from tier 2 is dropping off."
If you take out the 3 best BR team out of T2, T2 will be even more weak, and will not avoid T2 BR to be empty of Orgs (FR have a shiton of good org in T2 why BR coouldn't have ?)
AloneSolstice [#6]Yes. Too much talent in NA and SA for it all to be condensed into one region
I really disagree with that Brasil beside VKS/LOUD it's :
2021 :
Discord