Engineering tier1 female players

KICKING OFF THE OFFSEASON

As of the time of writing, it is not implausible to assume that there is some variation in ability between female and male esports players. However, as a humble disciple of Lazlo Polgar, i believe that a solution to this problem can be reached for the specific case of tactical shooters.

The two differences I have determined would play the most important roles in highlighting male/female disparity would be spatial intelligence (debatable for the specific case of esports performance) [2] and reaction time differences [1] (non-debatable) . All the others either aren't constant factors or do not occur with enough frequency to be significant.

To this effect, I propose an experiment:

• Sample female individuals of ages 15 - 21 who already demonstrate exceptional ability relative to peers of the same gender. This should take care of or at most drastically reduce the differences in spatial perception performance between the genders [1], as this ability positively correlates with enhanced cognitive function[4]

• Place them on a moderately intensive exercise regimen, as this has arguably been shown to reduce the gap in reaction times between the genders to non-significant levels [1]

• Have them accustom themselves to higher sensitivities, as the general consensus is that women possess, specifically, finer motor precision over men [3], although this has also been extensively debated.

REFERENCES:

1. Jain, A., Bansal, R., Kumar, A., & Singh, K. (2015). A comparative study of visual and auditory reaction times on the basis of gender and physical activity levels of medical first year students. International Journal of Applied and Basic Medical Research, 5(2), 124. https://doi.org/10.4103/2229-516x.157168

2. Kaufman, S. B. (2007). Sex differences in mental rotation and spatial visualization ability: Can they be accounted for by differences in working memory capacity? Intelligence, 35(3), 211–223. doi:10.1016/j.intell.2006.07.009

3. Liutsko, L., Muiños, R., Ral, J. M. T., & Contreras, M. J. (2020). Fine motor precision tasks: Sex differences in performance with and without visual guidance across different age groups. Behavioral Sciences, 10(1). https://doi.org/10.3390/bs10010036

4. Kokkinakis, A. V., Cowling, P. I., Drachen, A., & Wade, A. R. (2017). Exploring the relationship between video game expertise and fluid intelligence. PLoS ONE, 12(11). https://doi.org/10.1371/journal.pone.0186621

QA:
Why did you write this? I am bored and drunk. It's way too calm an evening for a Monday.
Is this well researched? No. The fuck do you think I am, a scientist?
Is this a fun idea? yea lol

reaction time is meaningless as long as its <300ms

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Enerii is almost as good as Florescent and yet no one talks about her
#MVGA

chrlxz [#2]

reaction time is meaningless as long as its <300ms

what in the retard

Denjisideals [#3]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Enerii is almost as good as Florescent and yet no one talks about her
#MVGA

NA clout and drama diff

Denjisideals [#3]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Enerii is almost as good as Florescent and yet no one talks about her
#MVGA

apac gc and na's gc are incomparable in terms of skill
florescent will school enerii in a duel 8/10 times

ash_knuckles [#4]

what in the retard

its legit true

in cs k0nfig when he was one of the best riflers in the world had a 250ms reaction time

Diebs [#5]

NA clout and drama diff

Facts
Don't even get invited to clout tournaments
Always SR or G2G

don't think reaction time is a big factor. the biggest contributor is obviously that there are far less women playing than men, so it's not surprising that there's not a bunch of top tier females when you adjust for player size.

to me the question is why are there literally no top tier females, and i think the blame has to go to game changers. Game changers has succeeded in putting attention on female talent, but failed at making them better. Literally separating them into a t3/t4 league, rewarding them with success for beating said t3/t4 teams, and having no incentive to practice/improve in t2.

Remember the og c9 white roster's claims about being the first female team to integrate t1? They won gc and felt on top of the world, it's hard to go from that to getting ro64'd by randos in opens; they have no incentive to keep trying and would just prefer to collect paycheck in gc.

chrlxz [#7]

its legit true

in cs k0nfig when he was one of the best riflers in the world had a 250ms reaction time

those one-off tests are mostly for show lmao
even then, the top riflers/awpers no doubt show much higher average RT's than the mean

chauste [#9]

don't think reaction time is a big factor. the biggest contributor is obviously that there are far less women playing than men, so it's not surprising that there's not a bunch of top tier females when you adjust for player size.

to me the question is why are there literally no top tier females, and i think the blame has to go to game changers. Game changers has succeeded in putting attention on female talent, but failed at making them better. Literally separating them into a t3/t4 league, rewarding them with success for beating said t3/t4 teams, and having no incentive to practice/improve in t2.

Remember the og c9 white roster's claims about being the first female team to integrate t1? They won gc and felt on top of the world, it's hard to go from that to getting ro64'd by randos in opens; they have no incentive to keep trying and would just prefer to collect paycheck in gc.

valorant is the probably is the most inclusive an esport's competitive scene is going to get in terms of participation. The fact that i cannot point to a single AFAB who could be competitive at a t1 level is telling. The "no motivation" part shouldn't apply to anymore than a few participants in the league, and we've had gc players who quit the league to pursue pure pro careers before.

P.S: Lazlo Polgar's ethnicity actually negates his entire life's work methinks. Like bro how is an Ashkenazi jew partaking in the nature vs nurture argument on the side on nurture like my brother in Christ

Denjisideals [#8]

Facts
Don't even get invited to clout tournaments
Always SR or G2G

Crazy when TL were the runners up in Champs last year and kept the same core

Edit: I'm stupid that was SMG not TL

my take is GC always plays against GC and not tier2/3 teams so the best teams in GC(SR) are usually never tested and their weaknesses never exposed so they never fix or improve upon themselves

its gonna take a whole generation of girls being gamers from a young age for them to ever have a chance unless you find truly naturally gifted women out in the wild who discover a passion for FPS gaming late in development(the 15-21 range you mention)

lyprum [#14]

my take is GC always plays against GC and not tier2/3 teams so the best teams in GC(SR) are usually never tested and their weaknesses never exposed so they never fix or improve upon themselves

they do play open qualifiers of vcl and lose to pug teams(1-2 t2/t3 pro) in Ro64

TM06Nick [#15]

its gonna take a whole generation of girls being gamers from a young age for them to ever have a chance unless you find truly naturally gifted women out in the wild who discover a passion for FPS gaming late in development(the 15-21 range you mention)

that's kinda the point -> sample the edge of the curve repeatedly and experiment, and gen alpha/late genz is prime age for this

Here before post got nuked

Diebs [#16]

they do play open qualifiers of vcl and lose to pug teams(1-2 t2/t3 pro) in Ro64

like consistently

welikefortniteandvalorant [#18]

Here before post got nuked

if mods nuke this they're fascist

ash_knuckles [#10]

those one-off tests are mostly for show lmao
even then, the top riflers/awpers no doubt show much higher average RT's than the mean

W flair

lyprum [#19]

like consistently

G2Gozen literally tried to get into Dach T2 and lost against a full german free agent team lol

Huitzilopochtli [#21]

W flair

legendary cs org gotta respect

the thing is 1. there are less Women in Val -> less talented players -> less possible professionals

2. Women arent driven so much to win (i cant speak for all) -> they play the game in Duos/trios/e-dates etc just bcs its popular/graphics or quirky sounds -> just for fun and stuff but dont have the mental to do everything to win and grind countless hours to get ahead of the casual player
3. (more like a thing i noticed from my ranked games) they tend to lock in agents they like more (e.g. sage, reyna) based on their perception e.g. they look cool/cute/:3 or smth like that and dont look at the map and pick the correct agent or dont fill
4. Game Changers competition is not as tough as Franchise or even T2 and because (thats just me guessing) they scrim mostly game changer teams (and t2/t3 from what ive heard)
5. missing access: because the open qualifiers for the T2 regions are just once or twice a year it is hard for Game Changer teams to qualifie through that -> if they blunder once or twice theyre out -> have to wait AGAIN for like a whole year
   pls dont get this post wrong, i like everybody

Huitzilopochtli [#22]

G2Gozen literally tried to get into Dach T2 and lost against a full german free agent team lol

yeah point is because they dont have enough acess to tier 2 level play theyll never get to that level
losing once per year aint doing shit

lyprum [#25]

yeah point is because they dont have enough acess to tier 2 level play theyll never get to that level
losing once per year aint doing shit

actually good point

Interesting read even if you are just yapping for fun.

Though, I really do wish people would give the biological differences argument a little bit more consideration. Even if most girls play less games than most boys it does not explain the lack of successful professional female players when competing against men. In theory, we are taking 100 good male players and 100 good female players and the men are winning 99% of the time. Is this not a bit absurd?

I would still like to see GC players take a shot at the main league either way and see how they fair.

Huitzilopochtli [#24]

the thing is 1. there are less Women in Val -> less talented players -> less possible professionals

2. Women arent driven so much to win (i cant speak for all) -> they play the game in Duos/trios/e-dates etc just bcs its popular/graphics or quirky sounds -> just for fun and stuff but dont have the mental to do everything to win and grind countless hours to get ahead of the casual player
3. (more like a thing i noticed from my ranked games) they tend to lock in agents they like more (e.g. sage, reyna) based on their perception e.g. they look cool/cute/:3 or smth like that and dont look at the map and pick the correct agent or dont fill
4. Game Changers competition is not as tough as Franchise or even T2 and because (thats just me guessing) they scrim mostly game changer teams (and t2/t3 from what ive heard)
5. missing access: because the open qualifiers for the T2 regions are just once or twice a year it is hard for Game Changer teams to qualifie through that -> if they blunder once or twice theyre out -> have to wait AGAIN for like a whole year
   pls dont get this post wrong, i like everybody

that's the average woman tho. i don't really care about the avg woman, the interesting ones are the exceptions to the rule i.e mel, sonder, noia, dodonut, l4ce, enerii, lizhi, vania, petra, mimi, miNt e.t.c and so far even they've fallen short. while i still think some of these women have a (very slim) shot at tier 1/2 performances, this is a fun thought experiment and i'm hella bored so

also gc teams most likely scrim regulars all the time, and while i do think gc might have slowed some players in terms of their drive to win, i don't think it applies to the exceptions

ash_knuckles [#12]

P.S: Lazlo Polgar's ethnicity actually negates his entire life's work methinks. Like bro how is an Ashkenazi jew partaking in the nature vs nurture argument on the side on nurture like my brother in Christ

What in the retard

jiayou0209 [#27]

Interesting read even if you are just yapping for fun.

Though, I really do wish people would give the biological differences argument a little bit more consideration. Even if most girls play less games than most boys it does not explain the lack of successful professional female players when competing against men. In theory, we are taking 100 good male players and 100 good female players and the men are winning 99% of the time. Is this not a bit absurd?

I would still like to see GC players take a shot at the main league either way and see how they fair.

unfortunately it ties back to the general argument of nature v nurture and that will probably be debated till the end of time so yeah

Zerphyr1 [#29]

What in the retard

am i wrong

ash_knuckles [#28]

that's the average woman tho. i don't really care about the avg woman, the interesting ones are the exceptions to the rule i.e mel, sonder, noia, dodonut, l4ce, enerii, lizhi, vania, petra, mimi, miNt e.t.c and so far even they've fallen short. while i still think some of these women have a (very slim) shot at tier 1/2 performances, this is a fun thought experiment and i'm hella bored so

also gc teams most likely scrim regulars all the time, and while i do think gc might have slowed some players in terms of their drive to win, i don't think it applies to the exceptions

reasonable

ash_knuckles [#31]

am i wrong

yes

Zerphyr1 [#33]

yes

explain how i'm ready to have my opinion changed

ash_knuckles [#34]

explain how i'm ready to have my opinion changed

Even if you believe that he has a genetic advantage, that doesn't mean that they can't study the benefits of non genetic determinants. For example, just because I drink coffee doesn’t mean I can’t study the effects of not drinking coffee.

This would’ve been so much funnier if you were suggesting to genetically create female valorant super soldiers with that title

Zerphyr1 [#35]

Even if you believe that he has a genetic advantage, that doesn't mean that they can't study the benefits of non genetic determinants. For example, just because I drink coffee doesn’t mean I can’t study the effects of not drinking coffee.

his test subjects were his own kids tho. what i referrred to as his "life's work" are the polgar sisters

His "findings" also haven't been very replicable afaik

meanie [#36]

This would’ve been so much funnier if you were suggesting to genetically create female valorant super soldiers with that title

i'm actually fucking down transhumanism ftw

ash_knuckles [#37]

his test subjects were his own kids tho. what i referrred to as his "life's work" are the polgar sisters

His "findings" also haven't been very replicable afaik

My misunderstanding on your point about his life's work, however I still disagree with your new point.

Even though he tested on his own daughters and this might make the tests less objective. It's hard to avoid the success of all his daughters. If the results were purely due to genetics, I doubt anyone would expect the same level of success of the sisters just from their inherent background. But still, all three daughters excelled, this suggests that nurture played a role in his daughters success.

Also, your last point is valid

ash_knuckles [#30]

unfortunately it ties back to the general argument of nature v nurture and that will probably be debated till the end of time so yeah

I mean, this could be settled with experiments similar to what you suggest, they would just be too unethical to ever happen.

Zerphyr1 [#39]

My misunderstanding on your point about his life's work, however I still disagree with your new point.

Even though he tested on his own daughters and this might make the tests less objective. It's hard to avoid the success of all his daughters. If the results were purely due to genetics, I doubt anyone would expect the same level of success of the sisters just from their inherent background. But still, all three daughters excelled, this suggests that nurture played a role in his daughters success.

Also, your last point is valid

while i agree that all of his daughters succeeding is definitely indicative of the key role nurture plays, his theory going into this was that "geniuses are made, not born" and so far only one of his children (depending on where you set the bar for "genius") truly attested to that.

The fact that he belongs to one of the most intelligent sub-ethnic groups in the world does more to discredit his theory than establish it, imo

ash_knuckles [#41]

while i agree that all of his daughters succeeding is definitely indicative of the key role nurture plays, his theory going into this was that "geniuses are made, not born" and so far only one of his children (depending on where you set the bar for "genius") truly attested to that.

The fact that he belongs to one of the most intelligent sub-ethnic groups in the world does more to discredit his theory than establish it, imo

I agree with everything here, I'm not attesting to the argument that nurture plays the determining role but rather that his studies cannot be dismissed because he himself is likely biologically advantaged

Zerphyr1 [#42]

I agree with everything here, I'm not attesting to the argument that nurture plays the determining role but rather that his studies cannot be dismissed because he himself is likely biologically advantaged

yeah i agree as well!
also my comment was meant to be a funny off-handed one lol

ash_knuckles [#43]

yeah i agree as well!
also my comment was meant to be a funny off-handed one lol

I could tell, I just presumed that you were being somewhat serious and so I wanted to attest to that.

meanie [#36]

This would’ve been so much funnier if you were suggesting to genetically create female valorant super soldiers with that title

can I try this with you?

Kinda germane now so bump I guess. Poorly researched draft of an insane idea so dont go all "scientific rigor" on me, however I do think there is some legitimacy to the subsequent deduction.

Ignore other arguments in this thread btw.

Denjisideals [#3]

Don't let this distract you from the fact that Enerii is almost as good as Florescent and yet no one talks about her
#MVGA

aged like milk