VALORANT Masters Bangkok
48 teams in qualifying ÷ 8 teams attending ≈ 16% of teams competing
FIFA World Cup 2022
211 teams in qualifying ÷ 32 teams ≈ 15% of teams competing
Pretty far-fetched comparison but the point is maybe only 8 teams isn't really a stretch. Sure, it's more fun with more teams, but that doesn't make 8 teams inherently bad or illegitimate, especially when every team has a realistic shot at qualification.
Kirako [#2]idk bro 4 team playoffs are just not it
#MVGA
Because I'm a viewer, I agree. But it's the same story here. Less teams doesn't make it inherently worse or less legitimate or anything of the sort. At the end of the day, all it means is it's harder for teams to qualify and we have less games to watch.
ArrowVal [#4]Competition, especially at the start of a new meta, is far closer in Valorant than in World Cup Qualifiers. Additionally, teams are sometimes swapping out 60% of their roster going in. A single double elimination that decides your first quarter of the year is rough by definition.
That's a fair argument. In my opinion, though, all that really means is that every game counts, which is true in the vast majority of sporting and esporting events
wait people are complaining about 8 team masters? realistically there has never been a tourament where its felt that more than 8 teams could win plus it increases the skill floor of each game. also i think its pretty safe to say the best event of the year was madrid which had 8 teams and nobody seemed to have a problem with it then.
kyro1 [#6]wait people are complaining about 8 team masters? realistically there has never been a tourament where its felt that more than 8 teams could win plus it increases the skill floor of each game. also i think its pretty safe to say the best event of the year was madrid which had 8 teams and nobody seemed to have a problem with it then.
People have reached a general consensus that less teams = mickey mouse tournament, which I don't agree with (like you said, Madrid was hype), so I just thought I'd call that out
Kirako [#2]idk bro 4 team playoffs are just not it
#MVGA
why don’t we just go straight to playoffs.
Have
Have it so every #1 seed
plays a #2 seed
And have it that each side of the bracket will have 1 team from a region
ex.
EMEA 1 vs CN 2
Americas 1 vs Pacific 2
China 1 vs Americas 2
CN 1 vs EMEA 2
make it a double elim and
only downside is that this format would have 2 less matches
cloudberry [#7]People have reached a general consensus that less teams = mickey mouse tournament, which I don't agree with (like you said, Madrid was hype), so I just thought I'd call that out
yeah thats stupid. another reason im just thinking of too is everyone is complaining about champs not being in a arena which i 100% agree with but with an 8 team masters it becomes way more logistically feasible for all of playoffs to be in a arena
merciless-pity8989-89 [#8]why don’t we just go straight to playoffs.
Have
Have it so every #1 seed
plays a #2 seedAnd have it that each side of the bracket will have 1 team from a region
ex.
EMEA 1 vs CN 2
Americas 1 vs Pacific 2
China 1 vs Americas 2
CN 1 vs EMEA 2make it a double elim and
only downside is that this format would have 2 less matches
That could work, actually. A straight-to-playoffs double elimination bracket style tournament is a neat idea.
Another way they could potentially go about it, which I've seen in a few sports but never in esports, is if they have round robin groups purely for seeding. All 8 teams qualify, but playoffs end up being 1v4 2v3 3v2 4v1 between teams coming from two groups (in a Masters you'd have one team from each region in each group).
kyro1 [#9]yeah thats stupid. another reason im just thinking of too is everyone is complaining about champs not being in a arena which i 100% agree with but with an 8 team masters it becomes way more logistically feasible for all of playoffs to be in a arena
That's true, and that's a valid point for Madrid over any other tournament this year. But then the argument of "Riot has the money, why don't they host every game in an arena?" comes about for tournaments next year—because we can't realistically guarantee every game at Masters Bangkok will be in an arena.
Anguibok [#12]Cant wait for the day when we have a 5th or a 6th T1 region, we will have more teams
Pretty safe to say that won't be for a long while, but I'm excited for that kind of thing as well. The regions that come to mind are South America and CIS, which would leave more teams available for both NA and SA, plus give EMEA more leniency to allow MENA representation.
Also we'd probably need more teams for each Masters, and... this is a bit of a stretch, but I'd really really wanna see an international LCQ, kind of like the international playoffs you see for the FIFA World Cup. No idea how that would be feasible but I'd love to witness it
cloudberry [#11]That's true, and that's a valid point for Madrid over any other tournament this year. But then the argument of "Riot has the money, why don't they host every game in an arena?" comes about for tournaments next year—because we can't realistically guarantee every game at Masters Bangkok will be in an arena.
true i really hope they take the criticism and do something about it for the venues next year. the least they could do is upgrade the smaller venue so it feels a bit more grand and less theatre like. but with only 3 events a year i really do think having the bulk of events in a small venue slows the growth of the esport and they would benefit a lot in the long term from even doing like a top 6 in playoffs gets you to the big arena
kyro1 [#14]true i really hope they take the criticism and do something about it for the venues next year. the least they could do is upgrade the smaller venue so it feels a bit more grand and less theatre like. but with only 3 events a year i really do think having the bulk of events in a small venue slows the growth of the esport and they would benefit a lot in the long term from even doing like a top 6 in playoffs gets you to the big arena
I fully agree with this. Riot have shown they're open to constructive criticism and that they're willing to be a lot more open and public about these kinds of processes, so I genuinely hope they'll improve upon their system and keep us updated on what they're doing to improve the esport
cloudberry [#13]Pretty safe to say that won't be for a long while, but I'm excited for that kind of thing as well. The regions that come to mind are South America and CIS, which would leave more teams available for both NA and SA, plus give EMEA more leniency to allow MENA representation.
Also we'd probably need more teams for each Masters, and... this is a bit of a stretch, but I'd really really wanna see an international LCQ, kind of like the international playoffs you see for the FIFA World Cup. No idea how that would be feasible but I'd love to witness it
Amer, and CIS doesnt have enough people in it, even in long term that might never happen, when MENA, India and Subsaharua will gap close their economical groth, they will have a population big enough to be a T1, and other region cant do it, hard to say when it will be, seems tings improving really fast in India
Anguibok [#16]Amer, and CIS doesnt have enough people in it, even in long term that might never happen, when MENA, India and Subsaharua will gap close their economical groth, they will have a population big enough to be a T1, and other region cant do it, hard to say when it will be, seems tings improving really fast in India
I'm not approaching this from a population perspective but fair point
donkkomong [#18]Its not bad nor good. Its a matter of more games the better. I dont mind Kickoffs, Stage 1, or Stage 2 having a 4 team playoffs, but for an International LAN? Nah we need more than that.
It's a double-edged sword. When more games are played, committed fans are a lot happier because they get more action. However, more casual fans of the esport (i.e. the majority of people) will just lose interest if a tournament goes on for more than a few weeks, especially if there are multiday pauses in play. I agree that more games are needed, but Riot does have to be mindful of how many games are played so that they make the maximum number of people happy.
cloudberry [#19]It's a double-edged sword. When more games are played, committed fans are a lot happier because they get more action. However, more casual fans of the esport (i.e. the majority of people) will just lose interest if a tournament goes on for more than a few weeks, especially if there are multiday pauses in play. I agree that more games are needed, but Riot does have to be mindful of how many games are played so that they make the maximum number of people happy.
If they can do Masters with 12 teams within a certain time period, they can do another one with 12 teams within a certain time period. No excuses. Unless there's an issue with playing in the city that's holding the Masters event.
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