Franchised Academies

Another thing to address is that now franchised teams are allowed to have academies but they cannot take part in Ascension.

Idk if teams will actually want to do that since it feels expensive, but looking at how well rookies work it might be more effective than in other games. It's extremely odd because idk what kind of player accept the fact that he won't be playing Ascension no matter what. And idk how this model compares to affiliated teams.

This is also incredibly odd specifically here in Spain. We currently have 3 franchise orgs, since they left the league has basically lost all its audience but when they competed there it was one of the most watched leagues in the world. But it just so happens that the Spain VCL just merged with Italy and Portugal so there isn't really space for them if they wanted academies. The only way they could let them in is by expanding the total amount of teams. And even then, I'd be worried if 3 of our best teams couldn't go to Ascension

In my case, I want to get rid of both nth and sz so good news for me since dfm announced they're forming an academy team and zeta academy basically does an EG 😂.

But yeah it is kinda unfair for t2 orgs , a franchised academy team basically competed with better resources than others .

its fine since it isnt mandatory.
For the team like Zeta, they already have 2 academy team, they can now find something for their academy team to do

IonlywatchvcjXD [#2]

In my case, I want to get rid of both nth and sz so good news for me since dfm announced they're forming an academy team and zeta academy basically does an EG 😂.

But yeah it is kinda unfair for t2 orgs , a franchised academy team basically competed with better resources than others .

But if you're a good tier 2 player, do you rather sign for an academy team knowing you are renouncing Ascension but have the chance to get promoted mid season?

Is their anything in the rules stopping a vct team selling the roster right before ascension to a non-vct org. Qualification for ascension is very region specific between whether it's season points or a single event placement. Can a accademy team not get points or not play later stages of an event.

E.g. T1 academy is running train through vcl korea all season and would be a lock in for qualifying to ascension. Can they sell the team right before they lock in their spot at Ascension to someone like D Plus.

Seems like a reasonable shout for both sides. VCT teams get to develop young cheaper talent and then recover cost by selling the team high when the team is about to qualify for ascension. T2 orgs get the chance to have a run at ascension without having to risk returns on building their own roster.

PrinceCharming [#5]

Is their anything in the rules stopping a vct team selling the roster right before ascension to a non-vct org. Qualification for ascension is very region specific between whether it's season points or a single event placement. Can a accademy team not get points or not play later stages of an event.

E.g. T1 academy is running train through vcl korea all season and would be a lock in for qualifying to ascension. Can they sell the team right before they lock in their spot at Ascension to someone like D Plus.

Seems like a reasonable shout for both sides. VCT teams get to develop young cheaper talent and then recover cost by selling the team high when the team is about to qualify for ascension. T2 orgs get the chance to have a run at ascension without having to risk returns on building their own roster.

as far as I understand teams do not own league spots so you can sell the roster but not your spot, so it wouldn't really make sense

Mortadelo [#4]

But if you're a good tier 2 player, do you rather sign for an academy team knowing you are renouncing Ascension but have the chance to get promoted mid season?

Now that I think about it, it is kinda fucked for the players too 😅

This is only a good idea if they don't cap the number of teams in each Challengers league. Because imagine NA Challengers if there are 12 teams capped and 6 of them are academy teams, for example

Mortadelo [#6]

as far as I understand teams do not own league spots so you can sell the roster but not your spot, so it wouldn't really make sense

I thought that as long as you kept the core it doesn't matter. Cmiiw tho

cloudberry [#8]

This is only a good idea if they don't cap the number of teams in each Challengers league. Because imagine NA Challengers if there are 12 teams capped and 6 of them are academy teams, for example

Exactly, NA is the only other region in the world that could have a similar issue than Spain in that regard

Mortadelo [#10]

Exactly, NA is the only other region in the world that could have a similar issue than Spain in that regard

I'd think France would have it worse, but now that you mention it, how many Spanish orgs are there? I actually have no idea. The only one I know of is Heretics.

IonlywatchvcjXD [#9]

I thought that as long as you kept the core it doesn't matter. Cmiiw tho

Players did not earn that spot for the most part so I don't see how the spot being linked to them makes any sense

cloudberry [#11]

I'd think France would have it worse, but now that you mention it, how many Spanish orgs are there? I actually have no idea. The only one I know of is Heretics.

Heretics, Koi and Giants

cloudberry [#11]

I'd think France would have it worse, but now that you mention it, how many Spanish orgs are there? I actually have no idea. The only one I know of is Heretics.

France and Spain have the most in EMEA 3 each (KC, M8, VIT)(KOI, GX, TH), although one of the 3 French ones is an ascension team so I don't think having an academy makes any sense for them, so in this case I would only count 2

But the main reason why I say it this is an issue for leagues like Spain but not idk, Korea for example is because Spain shares league with Portugal and Italy, we only have 4 spots for Spanish orgs, potentially 5. So 3 Academies literally would only leave 1 or 2 Spanish teams that could go to Ascension

Just another very EMEA specific issue. Say for example I'm the GM at Fnatic (a UK org) and I think to myself damn all these T2 players I can find in Polaris are trash. I want to put my money into pulling talent out of the say Turkey (it's worked for them in the past with hiro and alfajer). Can I make the Fnatic academy team in VCL Turkey. If so can everyone make an academy team in VCL Turkey, even ones outside of VCT EMEA?. In this hypothetical world could every team in VCL Turkey be a VCT academy team and no one gets to go to ascension?

PrinceCharming [#15]

Just another very EMEA specific issue. Say for example I'm the GM at Fnatic (a UK org) and I think to myself damn all these T2 players I can find in Polaris are trash. I want to put my money into pulling talent out of the say Turkey (it's worked for them in the past with hiro and alfajer). Can I make the Fnatic academy team in VCL Turkey. If so can everyone make an academy team in VCL Turkey, even ones outside of VCT EMEA?. In this hypothetical world could every team in VCL Turkey be a VCT academy team and no one gets to go to ascension?

I don't think teams just "chose a region to have an academy". The TO has to let you in and I would assume they wouldn't at least not more than one

Mortadelo [#14]

France and Spain have the most in EMEA 3 each (KC, M8, VIT)(KOI, GX, TH), although one of the 3 French ones is an ascension team so I don't think having an academy makes any sense for them, so in this case I would only count 2

But the main reason why I say it this is an issue for leagues like Spain but not idk, Korea for example is because Spain shares league with Portugal and Italy, we only have 4 spots for Spanish orgs, potentially 5. So 3 Academies literally would only leave 1 or 2 Spanish teams that could go to Ascension

Ah I see. Thank you for the insight

Mortadelo [#6]

as far as I understand teams do not own league spots so you can sell the roster but not your spot, so it wouldn't really make sense

isnt it the exact opposite, where the org owns the spot not the players?

We had the "fun" case with Laterious in dach where the org never really existed and then the roster had to FF their last game after this became apparent to the league
https://www.vlr.gg/188548/angry-titans-vs-laterious-challengers-league-dach-evolution-split-2-r7

Spain should have the same rule since they also have the org requirement and invited orgs at the start

high chance im confused about everything though; never actually read the org part of the rule book (and cant say the import rules were thrilling enough that im planning to go back xD)
End result should be the same though where you just cant sell your spot

PrinceCharming [#15]

Just another very EMEA specific issue. Say for example I'm the GM at Fnatic (a UK org) and I think to myself damn all these T2 players I can find in Polaris are trash. I want to put my money into pulling talent out of the say Turkey (it's worked for them in the past with hiro and alfajer). Can I make the Fnatic academy team in VCL Turkey. If so can everyone make an academy team in VCL Turkey, even ones outside of VCT EMEA?. In this hypothetical world could every team in VCL Turkey be a VCT academy team and no one gets to go to ascension?

I think this could be a sea issue too though. Sea will be merged in sp3. The only reason why sea doesn't have the same concern is because none of the tier 1 sea teams cared about making an academy teams unlike jp and korean teams 😂😂.

Targu1n [#18]

isnt it the exact opposite, where the org owns the spot not the players?

We had the "fun" case with Laterious in dach where the org never really existed and then the roster had to FF their last game after this became apparent to the league
https://www.vlr.gg/188548/angry-titans-vs-laterious-challengers-league-dach-evolution-split-2-r7

Spain should have the same rule since they also have the org requirement and invited orgs at the start

high chance im confused about everything though; never actually read the org part of the rule book (and cant say the import rules were thrilling enough that im planning to go back xD)
End result should be the same though where you just cant sell your spot

Yes yes, maybe I explained it wrong. I meant the orgs do not own the spot as in it's not theirs to sell, belongs to the TO. But yes the spot is not owned but does belong to the org not the players, org can kick everyone out and build again, doesn't have to keep a core of players, the spot does not belong to the players

Mortadelo [#16]

I don't think teams just "chose a region to have an academy". The TO has to let you in and I would assume they wouldn't at least not more than one

Why would the TO have to let you in. If you sign a roster and they qualify through premier or promotion relegation. Surely they would have to let them play. Short of the team not being eligable to asscend into the VCT (Because otherwise one org would have 2 teams at T1) and not being able to have more than 1 academy team, excluding GC (Because otherwise one org would have 2 teams at T2). There's no real reason why you couldn't unless there's a rule saying you can't.

PrinceCharming [#21]

Why would the TO have to let you in. If you sign a roster and they qualify through premier or promotion relegation. Surely they would have to let them play. Short of the team not being eligable to asscend into the VCT (Because otherwise one org would have 2 teams at T1) and not being able to have more than 1 academy team, excluding GC (Because otherwise one org would have 2 teams at T2). There's no real reason why you couldn't unless there's a rule saying you can't.

Sure, Ig that depends on how each TO has set up their league. But not many of them have many teams access through premier. They are all forced to let at least 1 team in through Premier I believe, but for example here in Spain that is only 1, all other spots are assigned by LVP, the TO

Yea definitely weird situation for both TO and the Orgs

Dont want to over-invest in a good team since you cant ascend anyways, but need to be good enough to not get relegated

Idk it could help both Polaris and East a ton with their org problem. You have pretty much free picking and player salaries are (relatively) cheap.
Though I personally dont see any org in EMEA doing this instead of partnering with an existing org... just feels way too expensive considering orgs already dont use that system.

IonlywatchvcjXD [#19]

I think this could be a sea issue too though. Sea will be merged in sp3. The only reason why sea doesn't have the same concern is because none of the tier 1 sea teams cared about making an academy teams unlike jp and korean teams 😂😂.

It could be a similar issue yes, specially for countries that will be having only 1 or 2 spots in tier 2 that have a tier 1 team aswell

Targu1n [#23]

Yea definitely weird situation for both TO and the Orgs

Dont want to over-invest in a good team since you cant ascend anyways, but need to be good enough to not get relegated

Idk it could help both Polaris and East a ton with their org problem. You have pretty much free picking and player salaries are (relatively) cheap.
Though I personally dont see any org in EMEA doing this instead of partnering with an existing org... just feels way too expensive considering orgs already dont use that system.

It would for sure help the viewership issue and I think that's the key step for everything else to fall in place

Happy with this change although I don't think it will have that big of an impact.
The most likely effect is that we will see one of geng/drx academy rosters in tier 2.
I cant see this impacting eu/americas at all.

capital_d_colon [#26]

Happy with this change although I don't think it will have that big of an impact.
The most likely effect is that we will see one of geng/drx academy rosters in tier 2.
I cant see this impacting eu/americas at all.

If I had to guess I don't think EMEA teams will have academies either

Mortadelo [#24]

It could be a similar issue yes, specially for countries that will be having only 1 or 2 spots in tier 2 that have a tier 1 team aswell

Unless the the premier results have come out, the slots for each subregions still remains at 2 teams per subregion. So potentially everyone will share the same problem except vietnam