How did Emea fall behind even Apac as a region I feel like Emea has been negatively effected by franchising while other regions have improved
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Where did it go wrong for Emea
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yes they have
think about it like this
imma give an example scenario:
There are 10 God Tier players in EMEA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in EMEA
franchise slots announced in 2023: 10
each of the 10 god players is put into 1 of the 10 teams (talent is more spread out)
There are 10 God Tier players in NA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in NA
franchise slots announced in 2022: 5
there are 2 god players in each of the 5 teams (talent is more condensed, and teams are better than if talent were spread out)
so yes, Emea has been negatively effected by franchising
emea has historically always been a very top heavy region franchising did not create this... Even in 2022 and 2021 before franchising EMEA was top heavy. mostly this is the result of a combination of idiotic nationalistic org branding like FUT and early KCP restricting the talent that orgs would even consider for a roster, and poor T2 formatting/scouting. T2 in EMEA has always been fractured into waaaaay too many different leagues (similarly to APAC) which makes scouting much harder and requires either a larger infrastructure devoted to scouting new talent or goated coaches who can instantly recognize good T2 talent to recruit like mini. It is comparatively much easier to scout in NA BR LATAM or even APAC (for reference there are 9 EMEA T2 leagues compared to 7 APAC or 3 americas) and this was even worse pre-franchising. This led to a ton more recycling of washed up talent compared to other regions which has started to fade (the top 2 teams being TH and KCP has proven that).
Look at heretics, vitality, karmine corp
basically all new squads
apac is the worst region (if you dont include china)
EMEA has shit on APAC despite APAC being carried by PRX and DRX 1 team runs
(copy pasted btw)
EMEA vs KR
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : KR 4
SERIES: EMEA 9 : KR 8
EMEA vs JP
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : JP 1
SERIES: EMEA 6 : JP 2
EMEA vs CN
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : CN 0
SERIES: EMEA 6 : CN 3
EMEA vs APAC
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : APAC 5
SERIES: EMEA 13 : APAC 7
????????????????????????????????????????????
(3/5) Vitality is half new (Runner Kicks Cender (new talent in 2023)
Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about
(4/5) KC is over half new (Marteen, N4rrate, Sh1n (new talent in 2023), tomaszy)
(5/5) TH is all new (benjy (new in 2023), boo (new in 2023), miniboo, riens, w00t)
Idc about EMEA's new talent/old talent tho.
APAC is the worst region out of AMERICAS/EMEA/APAC and you cannot argue them being > EMEA at all (but you can believe what you want)
2023 is not new talent... In the same way no one considers Demon1 on NRG jakeee on c9 (rip) or runi on c9 new talent anymore no one considers Cender Sh1n or Boo new talent anymore... again you exaggerate to make your point look better... was tenZ new talent in 2022? no. was alfa new talent last year? no. you just want your point to look better...
benjy is far more reasonable to consider new talent as he was only brought in for LCQ
Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about
i never said they were bad? weird hallucination to have... I'm simply pointing out that you exaggerate what a "new player" is to make it look like these teams are some revolutionary new roster when they simply aren't.
APAC is the worst region out of AMERICAS/EMEA/APAC and you cannot argue them being > EMEA at all (but you can believe what you want)
nothing i said is in any way related to any of this idk what you are smoking to hallucinate this maybe youre just an AI.
First you say: "recycling washed up players"
Then when I say: "Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about"
You say: "i never said they were bad? weird hallucination to have... I'm simply pointing out that you exaggerate what a "new player" is to make it look like these teams are some revolutionary new roster when they simply aren't."
First you say: "recycling washed up players"
Then when I say: "Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about"
Good job lying :). that quote was in response to a different comment entirely talking about EMEA as a whole not TH KCP or VIT in particular. The fact you have to say such a bold face lie to try and get a point across shows how you just want to be mad and will mald at the drop of a hat.
Come back with another lie to try and make your point more valid. You intentionally took a generalized point on a DIFFERENT COMMENT and misinterpreted it to be specifically about two players who I never mentioned and were irrelevant to the point of that comment its truly impressive you think lying so blatantly will make you look better.
woah woah
You cant talk about 2022 tf dawg
ukr-rus war happened and FPX didnt even attend Reykjavik 2022, let alone the fact that FNC had 2 subs
There is no argument that should be against EMEA being the clearly best region in 2021 and EMEA = AMERICAS as best regions in 2022.
You can talk about 2023-2024/post-franchising
EMEA: 4
APAC: 5
talk about "top heavy"
if you exclude fnc from the picture you guys would have only made it to top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022.
thats 2 out of 7 events that you guys made top 4. (excluding fnc).
We can do the same for apacs best team which is paper rex.
Out of the last 7 international events apac excluding prx would have made it 4 times, including prx and it's 7 out of 7.
Apac has double the amount of top 4 appearances if you exclude each regions best team.
To me it sounds like emea is just a one team region.
- "if you exclude fnc from the picture" blud, if we removed PRX in 2023, asia would be nowhere near top 4, let alone removing EG (NA's best team, with their 2nd best losing to billibilli)
- "top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022." FPX didnt attend Reykjavik 2022 because of war, FPX/NAVI made top 4 in Copenhagen, Champs 2022, and LOCK//IN, so realistically 4 times if you do not include the best team (FNC)
- im talking about 2024 dumass. why do you think I included SEN???
- Also yes, EMEA was a 1 team region in 2023, everyone agrees, but not in 2024
- If you exclude prx, eg, and fnc from 2023 then apac would still have a higher average ranking compared to emea and americas would have the highest.
- You just said (not including fnc) but then you bring up fnc in your stats????
- in your original post you bring up 2021 until 2024
- Emea is a 0 team region in 2024
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LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)
.
TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
(only top 3 teams from EMEA (since 4 teams attended from EMEA, but 3 from APAC))
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)
.
CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
(only top 4 teams from EMEA (since 5 teams attended from EMEA, but 4 from APAC))
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13) -
????????? where
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you were replying to my reply to #17, so you replied in the wrong place
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it has only been 1 event so far in 2024, and AMERICAS was a 0 team region for LOCK//IN and Tokyo (half of 2023)
- CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9), LIQ(13)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)
TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9), NAVI(11).
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)
LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)
Your cherry picking the data in your favour for your first response but when you include the full data set apac had a better year.
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I replied in the right place as you say emea placed top 4 since 2022 excluding fnc but then you bring up fncs champs run as a top 4 emea run. You also include fpx as top 4 as they had visa issues when in reality they might have not made top 4.
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Agreed with the first part but it doesn't prove anything to do with the argument.
Zerphyr1
if you exclude fnc from the picture you guys would have only made it to top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022.- You said that since 2022, excluding FNC, EMEA has only gotten top 4 - 2 times
- However, that is false though, FPX got top 4 in Copenhagen, Champs 2022, and NAVI got top 4 in LOCK//IN. Reykjavik 2022 should also be included as top 4 for FPX, but they couldnt attend because of war and I do not include them in stats.
Thats cause Apac had 2 good teams and the rest were shit do you even read Apacs third place team T1 got smoked by a weaker Fut that still had mojj and qw1 and during that time Fut was not even top 3 emea arguably not even in the top 4
So if your third place team can’t even take a map from a team most considered top 4-5 Emea both times they played that means your region was shit apart from Prx and Drx who were obviously title contenders
CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9), LIQ(13)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)
TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9), NAVI(11).
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)
LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)
overall apac had a higher placement with or w/o fnc and prx
KOI is too young of a team and have no history
GIANTS also haven't done much
Orgs in franchising in EMEA aren't who I would pick to build strong rosters as they seem to lack the experience.
NAVI blinded by nostalgia(I believe that the team can work though). Team Liquid is the def of mid in all their games in the past years.
I strongly believe the ORG is more important than the players and how they manage is #1.
Simply put EMEA orgs are imo below par even though the talent is equal or more than NA/APAC
One thing people forget about prefranchising EMEA is that they ran much more of a P/R league while NA/BR/KR/JPN/etc. ran open circuits. Orgs would be much more stable in EMEA because they would not have to worry about dropping out of tier 1 as much, making it much easier for top talent to rise to EMEA. Runs like The Guard's would have never been possible in EMEA, and if NA had a proper P/R league, teams like TSM probably stay in the tier 1 scene throughout 2021-2022. Hell even Sentinels found themselves being at risk of being relegated to stage 2 during the Stage 2 NA Qualifiers in 2022.
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