How did Emea fall behind even Apac as a region I feel like Emea has been negatively effected by franchising while other regions have improved
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Where did it go wrong for Emea
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yes they have
think about it like this
imma give an example scenario:
There are 10 God Tier players in EMEA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in EMEA
franchise slots announced in 2023: 10
each of the 10 god players is put into 1 of the 10 teams (talent is more spread out)
There are 10 God Tier players in NA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in NA
franchise slots announced in 2022: 5
there are 2 god players in each of the 5 teams (talent is more condensed, and teams are better than if talent were spread out)
so yes, Emea has been negatively effected by franchising
audatown [#6]the fuck you mean "eVeN Apac", solely on your question i know what makes your region is being left in the dust, its ego and stop recycling washed up players
Look at heretics, vitality, karmine corp
basically all new squads
apac is the worst region (if you dont include china)
EMEA has shit on APAC despite APAC being carried by PRX and DRX 1 team runs
(copy pasted btw)
EMEA vs KR
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : KR 4
SERIES: EMEA 9 : KR 8
EMEA vs JP
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : JP 1
SERIES: EMEA 6 : JP 2
EMEA vs CN
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : CN 0
SERIES: EMEA 6 : CN 3
EMEA vs APAC
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : APAC 5
SERIES: EMEA 13 : APAC 7
audatown [#6]the fuck you mean "eVeN Apac", solely on your question i know what makes your region is being left in the dust, its ego and stop recycling washed up players
the fuck you mean "eVeN Apac"
apac has historically been the weakest region for 4 years now this isn't some huge revelation no need to get your knickers in a twist
audatown [#6]the fuck you mean "eVeN Apac", solely on your question i know what makes your region is being left in the dust, its ego and stop recycling washed up players
Apac was a joke before franchising and the quality of teams were shit in 2023 apart from two so yes even apac
sentinelmain377 [#7]Look at heretics, vitality, karmine corp
basically all new squadsapac is the worst region (if you dont include china)
EMEA has shit on APAC despite APAC being carried by PRX and DRX 1 team runs
(copy pasted btw)
EMEA vs KR
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : KR 4
SERIES: EMEA 9 : KR 8EMEA vs JP
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : JP 1
SERIES: EMEA 6 : JP 2EMEA vs CN
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : CN 0
SERIES: EMEA 6 : CN 3EMEA vs APAC
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : APAC 5
SERIES: EMEA 13 : APAC 7
basically all new squads
that's a slight exaggeration lets be real. they aren't "all new" but yes have started finally incorporating new talent.
Itsover [#2]Useless spanish orgs in franchise instead of Spirit or Virtus.pro
fr spanish teams are dogshit
Itsover [#2]Useless spanish orgs in franchise instead of Spirit or Virtus.pro
Riot will never let in Russian orgs unfortunately
sdgdfdrgdrfgdrgdrfttdhy [#10]basically all new squads
that's a slight exaggeration lets be real. they aren't "all new" but yes have started finally incorporating new talent.
i said "basically"
sentinelmain377 [#5]yes they have
think about it like this
imma give an example scenario:There are 10 God Tier players in EMEA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in EMEA
franchise slots announced in 2023: 10
each of the 10 god players is put into 1 of the 10 teams (talent is more spread out)There are 10 God Tier players in NA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in NA
franchise slots announced in 2022: 5
there are 2 god players in each of the 5 teams (talent is more condensed, and teams are better than if talent were spread out)so yes, Emea has been negatively effected by franchising
if apac is behind emea in your opinion, what do you think the breakdown looks like in that way to make them worse? ik the numbers are arbitrary in some sense but curious how you think the concept applies
sentinelmain377 [#7]Look at heretics, vitality, karmine corp
basically all new squadsapac is the worst region (if you dont include china)
EMEA has shit on APAC despite APAC being carried by PRX and DRX 1 team runs
(copy pasted btw)
EMEA vs KR
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : KR 4
SERIES: EMEA 9 : KR 8EMEA vs JP
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : JP 1
SERIES: EMEA 6 : JP 2EMEA vs CN
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : CN 0
SERIES: EMEA 6 : CN 3EMEA vs APAC
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : APAC 5
SERIES: EMEA 13 : APAC 7
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS APAC: 9
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS EMEA: 7
this is since the start of 2022.
Basically emea has been the worst region out of apac/emea/americas from 2022 to 2024.
The only year you guys haven't been the worst region for top 4 placements is 2021
USCK [#12]Riot will never let in Russian orgs unfortunately
Spirit are Serbian and VP are Armenian.
sentinelmain377 [#7]Look at heretics, vitality, karmine corp
basically all new squadsapac is the worst region (if you dont include china)
EMEA has shit on APAC despite APAC being carried by PRX and DRX 1 team runs
(copy pasted btw)
EMEA vs KR
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : KR 4
SERIES: EMEA 9 : KR 8EMEA vs JP
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : JP 1
SERIES: EMEA 6 : JP 2EMEA vs CN
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : CN 0
SERIES: EMEA 6 : CN 3EMEA vs APAC
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS: EMEA 14 : APAC 5
SERIES: EMEA 13 : APAC 7
aint going to read to all that yapping but reality is NA and APAC outshined your region for the last 2 intl events, stop looking at your glorious past and let bygones be bygones
USCK [#18]Are they not Russian teams?
After 2022- yes, they are. VP even opened their "main office" in Yerevan even though the real main office is in Moscow.
finnwithtwons [#14]if apac is behind emea in your opinion, what do you think the breakdown looks like in that way to make them worse? ik the numbers are arbitrary in some sense but curious how you think the concept applies
the concept doesnt apply to asian teams
APAC/Asia is just way behind in CSGO & Valorant, not much you can change about that.
The scenario above was just explaining how EMEA (who was better than Americas before by a lot) has gotten worse than Americas
Itsover [#19]After 2022- yes, they are. VP even opened their "main office" in Yerevan even though the real main office is in Moscow.
Yh so basically they are still Russian teams but technically not
audatown [#17]aint going to read to all that yapping but reality is NA and APAC outshined your region for the last 2 intl events, stop looking at your glorious past and let bygones be bygones
not NA...It is Americas
APAC is just top heavy (PRX GENG)
the rest of the region is ass
same with AMERICAS
only great/god teams are NRG, SEN, and LOUD (who are looking a bit mid rn)
everyone else in AMERICAS is mid asf
USCK [#21]Yh so basically they are still Russian teams but technically not
Only the "technically" part matters, management of VP are mostly Armenian citizens, same goes for Spirit(Serbian citizens/residents), so they are technically not connected to Russia
USCK [#21]Yh so basically they are still Russian teams but technically not
VP still russian, Spirit are not anymore, completely operate out of serbia
sentinelmain377 [#5]yes they have
think about it like this
imma give an example scenario:There are 10 God Tier players in EMEA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in EMEA
franchise slots announced in 2023: 10
each of the 10 god players is put into 1 of the 10 teams (talent is more spread out)There are 10 God Tier players in NA.
There are 50 tier 1 players in NA
franchise slots announced in 2022: 5
there are 2 god players in each of the 5 teams (talent is more condensed, and teams are better than if talent were spread out)so yes, Emea has been negatively effected by franchising
emea has historically always been a very top heavy region franchising did not create this... Even in 2022 and 2021 before franchising EMEA was top heavy. mostly this is the result of a combination of idiotic nationalistic org branding like FUT and early KCP restricting the talent that orgs would even consider for a roster, and poor T2 formatting/scouting. T2 in EMEA has always been fractured into waaaaay too many different leagues (similarly to APAC) which makes scouting much harder and requires either a larger infrastructure devoted to scouting new talent or goated coaches who can instantly recognize good T2 talent to recruit like mini. It is comparatively much easier to scout in NA BR LATAM or even APAC (for reference there are 9 EMEA T2 leagues compared to 7 APAC or 3 americas) and this was even worse pre-franchising. This led to a ton more recycling of washed up talent compared to other regions which has started to fade (the top 2 teams being TH and KCP has proven that).
sdgdfdrgdrfgdrgdrfttdhy [#8]the fuck you mean "eVeN Apac"
apac has historically been the weakest region for 4 years now this isn't some huge revelation no need to get your knickers in a twist
apac is just getting better and better while yours is the other way around, if you think abt it its more embarrassing to be in your seat
sentinelmain377 [#13]i said "basically"
less than half your team being "all new" is not "basically" all new... that just needless exaggeration to make your point look better.
SanitySP [#24]VP still russian, Spirit are not anymore, completely operate out of serbia
VP are not Russian, they are Armenian, google who their CEO is, Cherepennikov is no longer the CEO, at least on paper.
Zerphyr1 [#15]TOP 4 PLACEMENTS APAC: 9
TOP 4 PLACEMENTS EMEA: 7this is since the start of 2022.
Basically emea has been the worst region out of apac/emea/americas from 2022 to 2024.
The only year you guys haven't been the worst region for top 4 placements is 2021
woah woah
You cant talk about 2022 tf dawg
ukr-rus war happened and FPX didnt even attend Reykjavik 2022, let alone the fact that FNC had 2 subs
There is no argument that should be against EMEA being the clearly best region in 2021 and EMEA = AMERICAS as best regions in 2022.
You can talk about 2023-2024/post-franchising
EMEA: 4
APAC: 5
Barss [#26]? yeah they are
depends on how you define 'top-heavy'
there's definitely a massive divide between the good teams and the bad ones but imo theres also a lot of good teams
audatown [#27]apac is just getting better and better while yours is the other way around, if you think abt it its more embarrassing to be in your seat
brother that is literally the point of this post why are you so angry? this is literally old man yells at clouds istg
Itsover [#29]VP are not Russian, they are Armenian, google who their CEO is, Cherepennikov is no longer the CEO, at least on paper.
at least on paper.
That's how the Russian fool you
sdgdfdrgdrfgdrgdrfttdhy [#25]emea has historically always been a very top heavy region franchising did not create this... Even in 2022 and 2021 before franchising EMEA was top heavy. mostly this is the result of a combination of idiotic nationalistic org branding like FUT and early KCP restricting the talent that orgs would even consider for a roster, and poor T2 formatting/scouting. T2 in EMEA has always been fractured into waaaaay too many different leagues (similarly to APAC) which makes scouting much harder and requires either a larger infrastructure devoted to scouting new talent or goated coaches who can instantly recognize good T2 talent to recruit like mini. It is comparatively much easier to scout in NA BR LATAM or even APAC (for reference there are 9 EMEA T2 leagues compared to 7 APAC or 3 americas) and this was even worse pre-franchising. This led to a ton more recycling of washed up talent compared to other regions which has started to fade (the top 2 teams being TH and KCP has proven that).
The reason teams like FUT and BBL ran full turkish teams is because of the restrictions due to them playing in the Turkish league
USCK [#9]Apac was a joke before franchising and the quality of teams were shit in 2023 apart from two so yes even apac
W Mans
finnwithtwons [#31]depends on how you define 'top-heavy'
there's definitely a massive divide between the good teams and the bad ones but imo theres also a lot of good teams
theres also a lot of good teams
Those "good teams" got shitted on by APAC on Master. More like a lot of mid teams with a couple horrible teams.
sdgdfdrgdrfgdrgdrfttdhy [#28]less than half your team being "all new" is not "basically" all new... that just needless exaggeration to make your point look better.
????????????????????????????????????????????
(3/5) Vitality is half new (Runner Kicks Cender (new talent in 2023)
Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about
(4/5) KC is over half new (Marteen, N4rrate, Sh1n (new talent in 2023), tomaszy)
(5/5) TH is all new (benjy (new in 2023), boo (new in 2023), miniboo, riens, w00t)
Idc about EMEA's new talent/old talent tho.
APAC is the worst region out of AMERICAS/EMEA/APAC and you cannot argue them being > EMEA at all (but you can believe what you want)
sentinelmain377 [#22]not NA...It is Americas
APAC is just top heavy (PRX GENG)
the rest of the region is asssame with AMERICAS
only great/god teams are NRG, SEN, and LOUD (who are looking a bit mid rn)
everyone else in AMERICAS is mid asf
talk about "top heavy"
if you exclude fnc from the picture you guys would have only made it to top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022.
thats 2 out of 7 events that you guys made top 4. (excluding fnc).
We can do the same for apacs best team which is paper rex.
Out of the last 7 international events apac excluding prx would have made it 4 times, including prx and it's 7 out of 7.
Apac has double the amount of top 4 appearances if you exclude each regions best team.
To me it sounds like emea is just a one team region.
Zerphyr1 [#38]talk about "top heavy"
if you exclude fnc from the picture you guys would have only made it to top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022.
thats 2 out of 7 events that you guys made top 4. (excluding fnc).
We can do the same for apacs best team which is paper rex.
Out of the last 7 international events apac excluding prx would have made it 4 times, including prx and it's 7 out of 7.
Apac has double the amount of top 4 appearances if you exclude each regions best team.
To me it sounds like emea is just a one team region.
- "if you exclude fnc from the picture" blud, if we removed PRX in 2023, asia would be nowhere near top 4, let alone removing EG (NA's best team, with their 2nd best losing to billibilli)
- "top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022." FPX didnt attend Reykjavik 2022 because of war, FPX/NAVI made top 4 in Copenhagen, Champs 2022, and LOCK//IN, so realistically 4 times if you do not include the best team (FNC)
- im talking about 2024 dumass. why do you think I included SEN???
- Also yes, EMEA was a 1 team region in 2023, everyone agrees, but not in 2024
USCK [#9]Apac was a joke before franchising and the quality of teams were shit in 2023 apart from two so yes even apac
the quality of teams were shit for emea in 2023 apart from one????
apac had a higher average ranking in international tournaments when you exclude both emea and apacs best team.
sentinelmain377 [#39]
- "if you exclude fnc from the picture" blud, if we removed PRX in 2023, asia would be nowhere near top 4, let alone removing EG (NA's best team, with their 2nd best losing to billibilli)
- "top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022." FPX didnt attend Reykjavik 2022 because of war, FPX/NAVI made top 4 in Copenhagen, Champs 2022, and LOCK//IN, so realistically 4 times if you do not include the best team (FNC)
- im talking about 2024 dumass. why do you think I included SEN???
- Also yes, EMEA was a 1 team region in 2023, everyone agrees, but not in 2024
- If you exclude prx, eg, and fnc from 2023 then apac would still have a higher average ranking compared to emea and americas would have the highest.
- You just said (not including fnc) but then you bring up fnc in your stats????
- in your original post you bring up 2021 until 2024
- Emea is a 0 team region in 2024
sentinelmain377 [#37]????????????????????????????????????????????
(3/5) Vitality is half new (Runner Kicks Cender (new talent in 2023)
Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about
(4/5) KC is over half new (Marteen, N4rrate, Sh1n (new talent in 2023), tomaszy)
(5/5) TH is all new (benjy (new in 2023), boo (new in 2023), miniboo, riens, w00t)
Idc about EMEA's new talent/old talent tho.APAC is the worst region out of AMERICAS/EMEA/APAC and you cannot argue them being > EMEA at all (but you can believe what you want)
2023 is not new talent... In the same way no one considers Demon1 on NRG jakeee on c9 (rip) or runi on c9 new talent anymore no one considers Cender Sh1n or Boo new talent anymore... again you exaggerate to make your point look better... was tenZ new talent in 2022? no. was alfa new talent last year? no. you just want your point to look better...
benjy is far more reasonable to consider new talent as he was only brought in for LCQ
Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about
i never said they were bad? weird hallucination to have... I'm simply pointing out that you exaggerate what a "new player" is to make it look like these teams are some revolutionary new roster when they simply aren't.
APAC is the worst region out of AMERICAS/EMEA/APAC and you cannot argue them being > EMEA at all (but you can believe what you want)
nothing i said is in any way related to any of this idk what you are smoking to hallucinate this maybe youre just an AI.
KaedeTsuneta [#36]theres also a lot of good teams
Those "good teams" got shitted on by APAC on Master. More like a lot of mid teams with a couple horrible teams.
think you're overvaluing their masters' performances
and they didnt get "shitted on" lol
KC went 35-33 against PRX in rounds in their match and TH ran PRX close in their 1-2 loss as well
and if you think either of those teams are "mid" you've completely lost the plot
Zerphyr1 [#40]the quality of teams were shit for emea in 2023 apart from one????
apac had a higher average ranking in international tournaments when you exclude both emea and apacs best team.
Thats cause Apac had 2 good teams and the rest were shit do you even read Apacs third place team T1 got smoked by a weaker Fut that still had mojj and qw1 and during that time Fut was not even top 3 emea arguably not even in the top 4
So if your third place team can’t even take a map from a team most considered top 4-5 Emea both times they played that means your region was shit apart from Prx and Drx who were obviously title contenders
USCK [#44]Thats cause Apac had 2 good teams and the rest were shit do you even read Apacs third place team T1 got smoked by a weaker Fut that still had mojj and qw1 and during that time Fut was not even top 3 emea arguably not even in the top 4
So if your third place team can’t even take a map from a team most considered top 4-5 Emea both times they played that means your region was shit apart from Prx and Drx who were obviously title contenders
fut was EMEAs 2nd best placing team in champs????
my point is that emea was a one team region and apac is not
Zerphyr1 [#45]fut was EMEAs 2nd best placing team in champs????
my point is that emea was a one team region and apac is not
Thats kinda cause FUT was in a easy group
that FUT team had a weak link of Mojj and a very inconsistent dualist of Qw1
Zerphyr1 [#41]
- If you exclude prx, eg, and fnc from 2023 then apac would still have a higher average ranking compared to emea and americas would have the highest.
- You just said (not including fnc) but then you bring up fnc in your stats????
- in your original post you bring up 2021 until 2024
- Emea is a 0 team region in 2024
-
LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)
.
TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
(only top 3 teams from EMEA (since 4 teams attended from EMEA, but 3 from APAC))
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)
.
CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
(only top 4 teams from EMEA (since 5 teams attended from EMEA, but 4 from APAC))
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13) -
????????? where
-
you were replying to my reply to #17, so you replied in the wrong place
-
it has only been 1 event so far in 2024, and AMERICAS was a 0 team region for LOCK//IN and Tokyo (half of 2023)
USCK [#46]Thats kinda cause FUT was in a easy group
that FUT team had a weak link of Mojj and a very inconsistent dualist of Qw1
your group argument just proves my point and you can't bring up inconsistency and weaklings as an excuse for a loss and a reason why your region is better.
Zerphyr1 [#41]
- If you exclude prx, eg, and fnc from 2023 then apac would still have a higher average ranking compared to emea and americas would have the highest.
- You just said (not including fnc) but then you bring up fnc in your stats????
- in your original post you bring up 2021 until 2024
- Emea is a 0 team region in 2024
please dont spread misinformation on the internet
EMEA > APAC in 2023 regardless if you exclude FNC & PRX or not
Zerphyr1 [#40]the quality of teams were shit for emea in 2023 apart from one????
apac had a higher average ranking in international tournaments when you exclude both emea and apacs best team.
NO U DUMASS
APAC HAS A LOWER AVERAGE RANKING EVEN IF YOU EXCLUDE EMEA's FNC and PRX in 2023
Itsover [#2]Useless spanish orgs in franchise instead of Spirit or Virtus.pro
I agree Spirit and VP have shown abilities to build rosters across games
Sadly clouted Spanish orgs get the spot and this hurts EMEA.
Barss [#26]? yeah they are
in 2023 they were: FNC top 1 and NAVI FUT TL sneaking in to top 2-4
in 2024 we got NAVI, FUT, VIT, TH, and KC all in top 5 (no order)
sentinelmain377 [#47]
LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)
.
TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
(only top 3 teams from EMEA (since 4 teams attended from EMEA, but 3 from APAC))
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)
.
CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
(only top 4 teams from EMEA (since 5 teams attended from EMEA, but 4 from APAC))
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)????????? where
you were replying to my reply to #17, so you replied in the wrong place
it has only been 1 event so far in 2024, and AMERICAS was a 0 team region for LOCK//IN and Tokyo (half of 2023)
- CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9), LIQ(13)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)
TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9), NAVI(11).
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)
LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)
Your cherry picking the data in your favour for your first response but when you include the full data set apac had a better year.
-
I replied in the right place as you say emea placed top 4 since 2022 excluding fnc but then you bring up fncs champs run as a top 4 emea run. You also include fpx as top 4 as they had visa issues when in reality they might have not made top 4.
-
Agreed with the first part but it doesn't prove anything to do with the argument.
KOI is too young of a team and have no history
GIANTS also haven't done much
Orgs in franchising in EMEA aren't who I would pick to build strong rosters as they seem to lack the experience.
NAVI blinded by nostalgia(I believe that the team can work though). Team Liquid is the def of mid in all their games in the past years.
I strongly believe the ORG is more important than the players and how they manage is #1.
Simply put EMEA orgs are imo below par even though the talent is equal or more than NA/APAC
sentinelmain377 [#50]NO U DUMASS
APAC HAS A LOWER AVERAGE RANKING EVEN IF YOU EXCLUDE EMEA's FNC and PRX in 2023
CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9), LIQ(13)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)
TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9), NAVI(11).
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)
LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)
overall apac had a higher placement with or w/o fnc and prx
sdgdfdrgdrfgdrgdrfttdhy [#42]2023 is not new talent... In the same way no one considers Demon1 on NRG jakeee on c9 (rip) or runi on c9 new talent anymore no one considers Cender Sh1n or Boo new talent anymore... again you exaggerate to make your point look better... was tenZ new talent in 2022? no. was alfa new talent last year? no. you just want your point to look better...
benjy is far more reasonable to consider new talent as he was only brought in for LCQ
Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about
i never said they were bad? weird hallucination to have... I'm simply pointing out that you exaggerate what a "new player" is to make it look like these teams are some revolutionary new roster when they simply aren't.
APAC is the worst region out of AMERICAS/EMEA/APAC and you cannot argue them being > EMEA at all (but you can believe what you want)
nothing i said is in any way related to any of this idk what you are smoking to hallucinate this maybe youre just an AI.
First you say: "recycling washed up players"
Then when I say: "Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about"
You say: "i never said they were bad? weird hallucination to have... I'm simply pointing out that you exaggerate what a "new player" is to make it look like these teams are some revolutionary new roster when they simply aren't."
Zerphyr1 [#53]
- CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9), LIQ(13)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9), NAVI(11).
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)Your cherry picking the data in your favour for your first response but when you include the full data set apac had a better year.
I replied in the right place as you say emea placed top 4 since 2022 excluding fnc but then you bring up fncs champs run as a top 4 emea run. You also include fpx as top 4 as they had visa issues when in reality they might have not made top 4.
Agreed with the first part but it doesn't prove anything to do with the argument.
okay but emeas finishes in tokyo and champs are better if you exclude the top teams or not
Zerphyr1 [#53]
- CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9), LIQ(13)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9), NAVI(11).
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)Your cherry picking the data in your favour for your first response but when you include the full data set apac had a better year.
I replied in the right place as you say emea placed top 4 since 2022 excluding fnc but then you bring up fncs champs run as a top 4 emea run. You also include fpx as top 4 as they had visa issues when in reality they might have not made top 4.
Agreed with the first part but it doesn't prove anything to do with the argument.
ARE U SPED????
THE 5th APAC TEAM DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE EVENT (COUNT THAT IN THE AVERAGE PLACEMENT YOU FKN RETARD)
Zerphyr1 [#53]
- CHAMPS 23: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(4), FUT(7), NAVI(9), GIA(9), LIQ(13)
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(5), T1(9), ZETA (13)TOKYO: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC/PRX: APAC > EMEA
EMEA: FNC(1), TL(5), FUT(9), NAVI(11).
APAC: PRX(3), DRX(7), T1(9)LOCK//IN: Avg Placement with or w/o FNC: EMEA > APAC
EMEA: FNC(1), NAVI(3), VIT(9), FUT(9), GIA(9), KC(9), KOI(17), TL(17), BBL(17), TH(17)
APAC: DRX(3), TLN(5), TS(9), all 7 other APAC teams (17)Your cherry picking the data in your favour for your first response but when you include the full data set apac had a better year.
I replied in the right place as you say emea placed top 4 since 2022 excluding fnc but then you bring up fncs champs run as a top 4 emea run. You also include fpx as top 4 as they had visa issues when in reality they might have not made top 4.
Agreed with the first part but it doesn't prove anything to do with the argument.
Zerphyr1
if you exclude fnc from the picture you guys would have only made it to top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022.- You said that since 2022, excluding FNC, EMEA has only gotten top 4 - 2 times
- However, that is false though, FPX got top 4 in Copenhagen, Champs 2022, and NAVI got top 4 in LOCK//IN. Reykjavik 2022 should also be included as top 4 for FPX, but they couldnt attend because of war and I do not include them in stats.
sentinelmain377 [#58]ARE U SPED????
THE 5th APAC TEAM DIDNT EVEN MAKE THE EVENT (COUNT THAT IN THE AVERAGE PLACEMENT YOU FKN RETARD)
Yes it is true that it's slightly unfair that I included the top 5 emea teams but not top 5 apacs but that's because it's impossible without making either emeas or apacs average biased.
It's like if you invite all of the 10 emea teams to champs 2023 but keep the same amount of apac and americas teams.
Emea would have an even greater chance of getting into the top 4 for example but their average placement would be lower. I'm sure you can see how if u exclude emeas worst performing team in the event it messes up the data.
Zerphyr1 [#61]Yes it is true that it's slightly unfair that I included the top 5 emea teams but not top 5 apacs but that's because it's impossible without making either emeas or apacs average biased.
It's like if you invite all of the 10 emea teams to champs 2023 but keep the same amount of apac and americas teams.
Emea would have an even greater chance of getting into the top 4 for example but their average placement would be lower. I'm sure you can see how if u exclude emeas worst performing team in the event it messes up the data.
then include 4 EMEA and 4 APAC???
dont include the 5th if APAC doesnt have a 5th team at the event as well
now dont say APAC > EMEA in 2023
EMEA was better than APAC in 2023
sentinelmain377 [#60]Zerphyr1
if you exclude fnc from the picture you guys would have only made it to top 4 at an international event TWICE from now until the start of 2022.
- You said that since 2022, excluding FNC, EMEA has only gotten top 4 - 2 times
- However, that is false though, FPX got top 4 in Copenhagen, Champs 2022, and NAVI got top 4 in LOCK//IN. Reykjavik 2022 should also be included as top 4 for FPX, but they couldnt attend because of war and I do not include them in stats.
I don't agree with your last sentence but I now see that I made a mistake and that emea has indeed made it to top 4 in 3 different occasions out of the last 7 international events if you exclude fnc.
One thing people forget about prefranchising EMEA is that they ran much more of a P/R league while NA/BR/KR/JPN/etc. ran open circuits. Orgs would be much more stable in EMEA because they would not have to worry about dropping out of tier 1 as much, making it much easier for top talent to rise to EMEA. Runs like The Guard's would have never been possible in EMEA, and if NA had a proper P/R league, teams like TSM probably stay in the tier 1 scene throughout 2021-2022. Hell even Sentinels found themselves being at risk of being relegated to stage 2 during the Stage 2 NA Qualifiers in 2022.
Zerphyr1 [#48]your group argument just proves my point and you can't bring up inconsistency and weaklings as an excuse for a loss and a reason why your region is better.
The reason that group was easy is because the third place apac team was in overall Emea was better than Apac last year as a region and not looking at individual teams but this year I think Apac has taken over Emea even tho Apac is yet to win a trophy to cement themselves
sentinelmain377 [#62]then include 4 EMEA and 4 APAC???
dont include the 5th if APAC doesnt have a 5th team at the event as wellnow dont say APAC > EMEA in 2023
EMEA was better than APAC in 2023
Excluding EMEA's worst-performing team would skew the data in favor of EMEA, as they would have a higher chance of achieving better average placements with fewer teams.
Zerphyr1 [#63]I don't agree with your last sentence but I now see that I made a mistake and that emea has indeed made it to top 4 in 3 different occasions out of the last 7 international events if you exclude fnc.
since Copenhagen 2022 (since Reykjavik 2022 didnt have EMEA's strongest teams):
if you exclude PRX (best team in Pacific since 2022 overall) and FNC (best team in EMEA since 2022 overall)
top 4 appearances for APAC: 3 - DRX in Champs 2022, DRX in LOCK//IN, GENG in Madrid
top 4 appearances for EMEA: 3 - FPX in Copenhagen 2022, FPX in Champs 2023, NAVI in LOCK//IN
USCK [#65]The reason that group was easy is because the third place apac team was in overall Emea was better than Apac last year as a region and not looking at individual teams but this year I think Apac has taken over Emea even tho Apac is yet to win a trophy to cement themselves
I agree but yet again my point is that if u get rid of apac and emeas best team then apac would be the better overall region in 2023
Zerphyr1 [#66]Excluding EMEA's worst-performing team would skew the data in favor of EMEA, as they would have a higher chance of achieving better average placements with fewer teams.
obviously
but then consider that EMEA and APAC both have 5 teams, and that APAC's 5th best team is worse than ZETA (4th best team)
APAC will again have a lower placement
sentinelmain377 [#67]since Copenhagen 2022 (since Reykjavik 2022 didnt have EMEA's strongest teams):
if you exclude PRX (best team in Pacific since 2022 overall) and FNC (best team in EMEA since 2022 overall)
top 4 appearances for APAC: 3 - DRX in Champs 2022, DRX in LOCK//IN, GENG in Madridtop 4 appearances for EMEA: 3 - FPX in Copenhagen 2022, FPX in Champs 2023, NAVI in LOCK//IN
you forgot zeta in reykjavik
Zerphyr1 [#70]you forgot zeta in reykjavik
"Since Copenhagen 2022"
i cant converse with you no longer
but know:
2021: EMEA > AMERICAS > PACIFIC
2022: AMERICAS = EMEA > PACIFIC
2023: AMERICAS > EMEA > PACIFIC
2024 so far: AMERICAS > PACIFIC > EMEA
sentinelmain377 [#69]obviously
but then consider that EMEA and APAC both have 5 teams, and that APAC's 5th best team is worse than ZETA (4th best team)
APAC will again have a lower placement
that is true but you are just speculating and I think you forgot that I believe emea was better in 2023 but my whole argument about all this is that apac is better if you exclude prx and fnc.
and so I would consider emea a one team region
sentinelmain377 [#71]"Since Copenhagen 2022"
i cant converse with you no longerbut know:
2021: EMEA > AMERICAS > PACIFIC
2022: AMERICAS = EMEA > PACIFIC
2023: AMERICAS > EMEA > PACIFIC
2024 so far: AMERICAS > PACIFIC > EMEA
Why do u keep cherry picking data?
Zerphyr1 [#72]that is true but you are just speculating and I think you forgot that I believe emea was better in 2023 but my whole argument about all this is that apac is better if you exclude prx and fnc.
and so I would consider emea a one team region
even excluding FNC and PRX
the whole combined EMEA from 2nd-10th is better than APAC 2nd-10th
sentinelmain377 [#74]even excluding FNC and PRX
the whole combined EMEA from 2nd-10th is better than APAC 2nd-10th
your just speculating but I agree.
remember my point is that emea was a one team region in 2023.
Even though EMEAs worst teams is most likely better than apacs worst teams, my point still stands
Zerphyr1 [#75]your just speculating but I agree.
remember my point is that emea was a one team region in 2023.
Even though EMEAs worst teams is most likely better than apacs worst teams, my point still stands
proving that takes too long
sentinelmain377 [#56]First you say: "recycling washed up players"
Then when I say: "Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about"
You say: "i never said they were bad? weird hallucination to have... I'm simply pointing out that you exaggerate what a "new player" is to make it look like these teams are some revolutionary new roster when they simply aren't."
First you say: "recycling washed up players"
Then when I say: "Also Sayf and Trexx are not bad players, so idk what ur on about"
Good job lying :). that quote was in response to a different comment entirely talking about EMEA as a whole not TH KCP or VIT in particular. The fact you have to say such a bold face lie to try and get a point across shows how you just want to be mad and will mald at the drop of a hat.
Come back with another lie to try and make your point more valid. You intentionally took a generalized point on a DIFFERENT COMMENT and misinterpreted it to be specifically about two players who I never mentioned and were irrelevant to the point of that comment its truly impressive you think lying so blatantly will make you look better.
cocoluna [#54]KOI is too young of a team and have no history
GIANTS also haven't done muchOrgs in franchising in EMEA aren't who I would pick to build strong rosters as they seem to lack the experience.
NAVI blinded by nostalgia(I believe that the team can work though). Team Liquid is the def of mid in all their games in the past years.
I strongly believe the ORG is more important than the players and how they manage is #1.
Simply put EMEA orgs are imo below par even though the talent is equal or more than NA/APAC
yea riot should have selected BIG and Spirit instead of Koi and Giants
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