serious only. Can someone explain actually how they are so bad? They take the game just as seriously as top challenger teams, have just as many resources, they don't seem to be lacking significantly in mechanics or anything so what's the deal. I genuinely do not understand how they universally lose to random assortments of washed/pugging tier 3 pros/expros in every qualifier.
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grenji [#3]Alexis couldn't hit a parked car. MeL's igling isnt actually being challenged when Flor and Sarah bail out any bad calls she has in GC.
Good point on IGL. Can people who watch a lot of valorant confirm if the quality of IGL specifically is really poor in GC just since generally the competition isn't that high, so when they go against more seasoned players they just get wiped?
moomoomoomeadows [#5]not the full problem but its shown like psychologically women competing against men do worse than when competing against the same men but not knowing
probably hard to overcome the mental block of "i am different from everyone here"
edit: credit selex the term is "stereotype threat"
Whether that's true or not, I do not know. But that sounds like some heavy ass copium.
Like, ur telling me they are coming from being the top 1 GC team in the world, but they lack the mental to play against tier 3 teams? That's just BS. I would get it if they were playing a Tier 1 team, but not Mochi Fanclub and 5donkeyshehe.
Borgroves [#8]honestly its just a skill diff meL and flor deserve to be in challengers the rest don't that simple
Flor for sure, but even meL I don't think so. Half the time she has some really bad stinkers, cuz from what I've seen she can be pretty inconsistent. She is either almost fragging like Flor or bottom fragging.
Borgroves [#8]honestly its just a skill diff meL and flor deserve to be in challengers the rest don't that simple
Not Mel. She can’t shoot well and there needs to be some serious questions raised on her igling when she’s losing to pug teams with the best gc players in the world. Sarah and flor are the real good players on that team, the others are on total fraud watch
AlexSMTxx [#10]Whether that's true or not, I do not know. But that sounds like some heavy ass copium.
Like, ur telling me they are coming from being the top 1 GC team in the world, but they lack the mental to play against tier 3 teams? That's just BS. I would get it if they were playing a Tier 1 team, but not Mochi Fanclub and 5donkeyshehe.
Google stereotype threat. Not copium actually. Pretty well documented and studied. Their level of success in GC is irrelevant and doesn't realistically change anything about this effect. Not saying they would definitely qualify if this wasn't a factor but it does make it harder.
Selex [#13]Google stereotype threat. Not copium actually. Pretty well documented and studied. Their level of success in GC is irrelevant and doesn't realistically change anything about this effect. Not saying they would definitely qualify if this wasn't a factor but it does make it harder.
I disagree with the second part, success can be used as motivation and self reinforcement of you believing in yourself. I don't think the girls will go "yeah we aint that good" after winning GC. I don't think they lack confidence in skill after what they have achieved, and if they do then it's a problem for them to solve. Look at demon1, dude suddenly appeared and even though he wasn't a renowned player he still had the winning and "I'm better mentality" successful players need. Bro went from sub to being EG's MVP at worlds.
AlexSMTxx [#14]I disagree with the second part, success can be used as motivation and self reinforcement of you believing in yourself. I don't think the girls will go "yeah we aint that good" after winning GC. I don't think they lack confidence in skill after what they have achieved, and if they do then it's a problem for them to solve. Look at demon1, dude suddenly appeared and even though he wasn't a renowned player he still had the winning and "I'm better mentality" successful players need. Bro went from sub to being EG's MVP at worlds.
I think most of what you said is pretty irrelevant to what I mentioned. It gives them confidence.That great. But that's not gonna magically remove the psychological effects of stereotype threat. It just isn't lol.
Selex [#13]Google stereotype threat. Not copium actually. Pretty well documented and studied. Their level of success in GC is irrelevant and doesn't realistically change anything about this effect. Not saying they would definitely qualify if this wasn't a factor but it does make it harder.
^^ appreciate it i spaced on the exact wording
Selex [#15]I think most of what you said is pretty irrelevant to what I mentioned. It gives them confidence.That great. But that's not gonna magically remove the psychological effects of stereotype threat. It just isn't lol.
Maybe, but I like my logic more over the sad one that says they will never be able to compete with other tier 2/3 teams because there's a psychological problem that simply won't allow them to perform well. I guess they are doomed to failure then.
AlexSMTxx [#18]Maybe, but I like my logic more over the sad one that says they will never be able to compete with other tier 2/3 teams because there's a psychological problem that simply won't allow them to perform well. I guess they are doomed to failure then.
literally just saying its a factor not a curse upon their lineage bro you dont have to exist in such horrid absolutes
I think you’re misunderstanding how talented tier 2/3 players are
you only think the top GC players are so good or even comparable to mid tier 2 teams in Challengers is because they get more exposure so we see more clips of them popping off
what we dont see is a lot of these tier 2 players grinding for years in these 3rd party tournaments without any recognition
SR is a decent team its just that the expectations for them are blown out of proportions
moomoomoomeadows [#19]literally just saying its a factor not a curse upon their lineage bro you dont have to exist in such horrid absolutes
Of course but my point is, with how competitive Valorant currently is, they would have to be substantially better than other Challenger teams for the "psychological disadvantage" to not be the deciding factor between a win and a loss in the end.
AlexSMTxx [#18]Maybe, but I like my logic more over the sad one that says they will never be able to compete with other tier 2/3 teams because there's a psychological problem that simply won't allow them to perform well. I guess they are doomed to failure then.
Did I ever say that? No I didn't. The OP asked why they kept failing over and over again. There are a couple reasons why including their level of skill (which is at where it's at for them/women in general for many reasons) AND stereotype threat. It's really not that hard to understand.
They, or some other female team, may one day qualify into challengers. Hell, maybe it'll be this very year in premier. Regardless, they'(or whoever it is) are gonna have to overcome a lot of stuff that their male peers will never have to deal with. That's a fact. And nothing new to anyone that's been following esports.
Selex [#22]Did I ever say that? No I didn't. The OP asked why they kept failing over and over again. There are a couple reasons why including their level of skill (which is at where it's at for them/women in general for many reasons) AND stereotype threat. It's really not that hard to understand.
They, or some other female team, may one day qualify into challengers. Hell, maybe it'll be this very year in premier. Regardless, they'(or whoever it is) are gonna have to overcome a lot of stuff that their male peers will never have to deal with. That's a fact. And nothing new to anyone that's been following esports.
Yeah exactly. There's 2 reasons:
- Not enough skill
- psychological threat
And given psychological threat is out of their control because it's psychological, the only option remaining (which is what everyone is saying) is to wait for the girls to keep playing because they aren't tier 3 level good yet, and hope one day they get to the level needed to beat tier 3 players. Or like the old saying goes, wait for them to "git gud"
tuffybass [#17]oh don't worry about it they only lose because of the negative and demeaning actions and thoughts against women and trans players........................................................................................................................
:l
that isnt what the question is, the question is why are they so bad?
its just the difference in level of play compared to t2/3 teams. im a big g2 fan and we saw how different GC is compared to t1 when they played against fut and a young TH.
dont make a question asking why they cant break in the league play about neagtive and demeaning actions, just to push your agenda
TriQo [#20]I think you’re misunderstanding how talented tier 2/3 players are
you only think the top GC players are so good or even comparable to mid tier 2 teams in Challengers is because they get more exposure so we see more clips of them popping off
what we dont see is a lot of these tier 2 players grinding for years in these 3rd party tournaments without any recognition
SR is a decent team its just that the expectations for them are blown out of proportions
straight fax
its may come off wrong but its just basically skill diff/ experience diff. we've seen this before with the GC players playing in t2 comps. this isnt on the players but they are just getting outplayed whether its the igling, the strats on att, the rotations on def, there is a diff.
ive said this b4 and ill say it again ive heard a gc player tell me that there really is a diff when they scrim these T1/2 teams.
if SR really wants to quali for challengers with this team maybe they should look inside the team, because this team is just riddled with consistently not being able to get past the hurdle. maybe its the core of mel and sarah who also couldnt get it done in their C9W days but they got the best GC player in NA.
something has to give here. the sr management needs to decide what it is. it doesnt matter that you are the best team in GC when u have a superteam but it all goes away when u play in t2/3 if qualing to challengers is ur main goal
and the fans, could also learn to temper their expectations. for years weve seen it, its nothing new. i hate to say it but in the words of Jose Mourinho they maybe a specialist in failure
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The teams SR are playing against are very good teams, even if they are not in challengers league, many of the players could easily substitute for certain players in challengers league. I know many of these players because I participated in collegiate, lots of them are insanely talented, there's just not enough spots in challengers league. Example, jakee on C9 was a collegiate player and he slotted into franchising just fine.
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SR definitely has an overconfidence issue, due to the nature of the GC system, they easily mop teams that are much worse. The problem with having overconfidence is that when it is shot down, you lose all of it, which is easily visible in these matches we're watching. They lose one map vs an "unknown" team, and they start whiffing against classics with vandals.
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GC is less competitive, meaning it is difficult to know whether certain strats or concepts are even valid. It doesn't matter if they did a mid default if the opponent has immortal 2 players that are clueless. When they play vs teams with greater individual skill, their strats suddenly don't work so seamlessly. This can especially hurt duelist players, because duelists rely on certain plays to get entries, but if those plays suddenly stop working, it is hard to adapt on the fly. Also, SR seems to get punished for taking unnecessary peeks, which is directly a result of the SR players commonly aim diffing GC players.
TriQo [#20]I think you’re misunderstanding how talented tier 2/3 players are
you only think the top GC players are so good or even comparable to mid tier 2 teams in Challengers is because they get more exposure so we see more clips of them popping off
what we dont see is a lot of these tier 2 players grinding for years in these 3rd party tournaments without any recognition
SR is a decent team its just that the expectations for them are blown out of proportions
really well said
Selex [#13]Google stereotype threat. Not copium actually. Pretty well documented and studied. Their level of success in GC is irrelevant and doesn't realistically change anything about this effect. Not saying they would definitely qualify if this wasn't a factor but it does make it harder.
Can you send sources please ? If what you say is true VLR really need it (Because without evidence it sounds a little bit like Copium but if that's true that will make change people mind a lot.)
Borgroves [#8]honestly its just a skill diff meL and flor deserve to be in challengers the rest don't that simple
mel is a bad igl. She is not even the best at gc level as daiki cleared her at GC finals and thanks to flor they had won the GC championship
hard truth is that GC is just straight up way less competitive then Tier 3. It's harder for them to qualify for Challengers than to sweep GC not because of the little things adding up like inflated egos or whatnot, it's only because its simply just harder. The team overall is less disciplined for this kinda jump of competition and they've often been getting outclassed in terms of macro plays consistently that's been hard bailed out by flor most of the time.
They make too many mistakes and aren't polished enough to make it whatsoever, but you can't really blame them for not fixing all of that if they've been doing just fine in GC for an entire year. Like they've genuinely been playing the same game they were playing in Brazil, it's just that now they're vsing teams that are capable of punishing them hard.
balax [#24]that isnt what the question is, the question is why are they so bad?
its just the difference in level of play compared to t2/3 teams. im a big g2 fan and we saw how different GC is compared to t1 when they played against fut and a young TH.
dont make a question asking why they cant break in the league play about neagtive and demeaning actions, just to push your agenda
every offseason there is some drama about not being given a chance because of gender that is what i'm talking about
they are obviously worse at the game at the highest level and no team should be in trouble or be getting heat for not signing or giving a fair chance to a girl/trans person when there hasn't been proof that they can compete
it's always brought up that it is hard to get any support and everything is negative towards them as some sort of excuse as to why they lost. Also not sure why the coach is always saying that they "didn't show up" or something similar. why not just say that the other team was better and that we need to be better to beat them? there is no accountability and there is an excuse for every bad result, every bad play, every little thing.
it is quite literally just like the nba and wnba. worse competition, less money flow, only exists because the group competing can't compete with the big league, always complaining about something whether it's viewership, support from community/team, salary.
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