Apparently Riot is forcing all broadcast organizations to rebroadcast a couple of other VCL's games each week. Spanish stream doing the FF vs SUP from the other day yesterday. Thoughts? At least they're trying
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New tier 2 EMEA initiative
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Targu1n [#3]ngl thought you meant polaris running their rebroadcast (almost) 24/7 to the 4 viewers xD
this is great tbh, an english cast to good t2 games which might have not gotten one otherwise (in this case at least) is something ive been hoping for for a while now
!Radskirider
Targu1n [#3]ngl thought you meant polaris running their rebroadcast (almost) 24/7 to the 4 viewers xD
this is great tbh, an english cast to good t2 games which might have not gotten one otherwise (in this case at least) is something ive been hoping for for a while now
Yeah so basically since there is only 1 VCT game on Wednesday they are gonna fill the space with other regions games. This week is the Sup vs FF so every region broadcast team has to cast the game in all languages. I think is great to interconnect the regions
Glycoroldas [#5]That very well could be the simplest solution that leads to the most meaningful results lmao
Would be great if they broadcast t2 games lives on VALORANT_EMEA channel on non tier 1 days too
I think it needs a lot of work tho. They need to add summaries of like how the leaderboard is going on the other leagues and maybe highlight some players that are doing well. I think that would help a lot too
babysasuke [#8]Why would they rebroadcast them on other channels when people could just watch the VODs?
Wouldn't you like an English stream for the Brazilian games? Because at least in my case, I like a Spanish broadcast for Turkish games
Mortadelo [#9]Wouldn't you like an English stream for the Brazilian games? Because at least in my case, I like a Spanish broadcast for Turkish games
oh, theyre like rebroadcasting with different casters? I thought they were just replaying the VODs on other channels
thats pretty cool ig
babysasuke [#10]oh, theyre like rebroadcasting with different casters? I thought they were just replaying the VODs on other channels
thats pretty cool ig
Yeah so like, spanish casters, Italian casters, German casters, etc... they all cast one of the other leagues game in their language. It's Turkish turn this week, so there is stream for the Turkish game in all languages to fill the gap since there's only 1 VCT game today. I imagine it will be on different league each week
Only downside it that they're couple day old games
fgjx5 [#12]Same for the french broadcast
Yup, apparently all language broadcasts are doing the Turkish game this week. I imagine they all will do another leagues game next week
Idk if u know this, but I was in sergio ferra's stream and he said this:
For me is better to do a 10 mins highlights video for each league, for example, 10 mins for Polaris, 10 mins for east and then with all the EMEA leagues until the VCT game starts
For me this is better, but I'm not angry for this initiative
_angelmrm_ [#15]Idk if u know this, but I was in sergio ferra's stream and he said this:
For me is better to do a 10 mins highlights video for each league, for example, 10 mins for Polaris, 10 mins for east and then with all the EMEA leagues until the VCT game starts
For me this is better, but I'm not angry for this initiative
Yeah the content can be improved, but at least it means they're trying and looking for solutions
_angelmrm_ [#15]Idk if u know this, but I was in sergio ferra's stream and he said this:
For me is better to do a 10 mins highlights video for each league, for example, 10 mins for Polaris, 10 mins for east and then with all the EMEA leagues until the VCT game starts
For me this is better, but I'm not angry for this initiative
might be more exciting for a casual audience so would be something they can (and should) try down the line (assuming they have the staff to cut the highlights together since all the VCLs are all understaffed already xD)
I do prefer the current format IF they're able to consistently find/produce games as good as ff vs smb since this was a great showcase of t2 (and should lead to more new viewers compared to highlight videos imo)
Targu1n [#17]might be more exciting for a casual audience so would be something they can (and should) try down the line (assuming they have the staff to cut the highlights together since all the VCLs are all understaffed already xD)
I do prefer the current format IF they're able to consistently find/produce games as good as ff vs smb since this was a great showcase of t2 (and should lead to more new viewers compared to highlight videos imo)
6,5k viewers watching SUP vs FF in Spanish today
I still don't understand the point in breaking it down into so many regional leagues. It just breaks down the potential viewer base and splits them out across all the different leagues. Only spanish people are going to watch the spanish league, only germans for the dach league etc. Splitting out talent, viewership and money so thin isn't "developing talent" or "giving a chance to new players" its making it much worse for them.
It should defo be closer to the system that NA has with challengers as its actually interesting to watch. Imagine they split it up into west US, south US, North east and south east leagues. Split up the schedule so that these leagues are all playing at the same time, the prize money is much less. Add in the circuit point system which is a failure in itself as its leads to many pointless games, results between teams who have weeks to play and no chance of qualifying for anything. Would kill the NA scene. So why are we doing it in Europe?
Us Europeans are already used to multiple league systems due to football, I would be more than happy to have a system like that where there are 3 or so leagues, with all the regions competing, with a promotion demotion system and several transfer windows. It's easier to follow, prize pools would be more condensed, and actually reward the teams who are better rather than the region being more developed, easier to support teams when its not just spain vs spain every week etc
Mortadelo [#18]6,5k viewers watching SUP vs FF in Spanish today
and thats the first week where most watchparties didnt know it was happening
and its already an insane baseline for some of the vcls in terms of promotion
ortuh [#19]I still don't understand the point in breaking it down into so many regional leagues. It just breaks down the potential viewer base and splits them out across all the different leagues. Only spanish people are going to watch the spanish league, only germans for the dach league etc. Splitting out talent, viewership and money so thin isn't "developing talent" or "giving a chance to new players" its making it much worse for them.
It should defo be closer to the system that NA has with challengers as its actually interesting to watch. Imagine they split it up into west US, south US, North east and south east leagues. Split up the schedule so that these leagues are all playing at the same time, the prize money is much less. Add in the circuit point system which is a failure in itself as its leads to many pointless games, results between teams who have weeks to play and no chance of qualifying for anything. Would kill the NA scene. So why are we doing it in Europe?
Us Europeans are already used to multiple league systems due to football, I would be more than happy to have a system like that where there are 3 or so leagues, with all the regions competing, with a promotion demotion system and several transfer windows. It's easier to follow, prize pools would be more condensed, and actually reward the teams who are better rather than the region being more developed, easier to support teams when its not just spain vs spain every week etc
You can’t pretend like there only is 50 tier 2 pros in EMEA my friend. If you that counting there is 9 VCLs you’re leaving 400 players without a job and forcing them to compete in a tier 3 which would be A LOT more dead than current tier 2. This might not be the most optimal system but having just 1 league would completely kill all regions in EMEA. I think is very important to leave each region room to develop
Also the system in Americas is the same than EMEA, it’s not like NA is the only VCL there
Mortadelo [#21]You can’t pretend like there only is 50 tier 2 pros in EMEA my friend. If you that counting there is 9 VCLs you’re leaving 400 players without a job and forcing them to compete in a tier 3 which would be A LOT more dead than current tier 2. This might not be the most optimal system but having just 1 league would completely kill all regions in EMEA. I think is very important to leave each region room to develop
Also the system in Americas is the same than EMEA, it’s not like NA is the only VCL there
you also cant pretend that there are 400 players who are tier 2, ie close to tier 1s level. that would literally just be everyone whos radiant, and the skill gap between the average radiant to pros is huge. Being so open and inclusive is nice short term as it gives all these people "an opportunity" to be tier 2, but competition is what drives up ability and interest. No one coming out of half of these smaller regions leagues are ever going to be tier 2 level as they are only playing people who are from that certain tiny region.
and comparing NA challengers to these tiny one country regional leagues is insane lmao, the only reason its NA only and not brazil or latam as well is because of ping differences and distance, eu doesnt have that problem
ortuh [#22]you also cant pretend that there are 400 players who are tier 2, ie close to tier 1s level. that would literally just be everyone whos radiant, and the skill gap between the average radiant to pros is huge. Being so open and inclusive is nice short term as it gives all these people "an opportunity" to be tier 2, but competition is what drives up ability and interest. No one coming out of half of these smaller regions leagues are ever going to be tier 2 level as they are only playing people who are from that certain tiny region.
and comparing NA challengers to these tiny one country regional leagues is insane lmao, the only reason its NA only and not brazil or latam as well is because of ping differences and distance, eu doesnt have that problem
But there literally are 450 tier 2 players in EMEA. 50 players per league in 9 leagues
Wdym this is bad long term? Literally the opposite, giving so many opportunities is what increases the chances of finding good players. You need to give the regions somewhere to develop. If you were to do that for example you would completely kill regions like Italy, you’re literally giving up on the whole region.
Also no, if Br, Latam and NA didn’t have ping issues they would all still be different regions wdym? It’s literally how it works in all 3 regions.
Mortadelo [#24]But there literally are 450 tier 2 players in EMEA. 50 players per league in 9 leagues
Wdym this is bad long term? Literally the opposite, giving so many opportunities is what increases the chances of finding good players. You need to give the regions somewhere to develop. If you were to do that for example you would completely kill regions like Italy, you’re literally giving up on the whole region.
Also no, if Br, Latam and NA didn’t have ping issues they would all still be different regions wdym? It’s literally how it works in all 3 regions.
when i said you cant pretend there are 400 tier 2 players i meant skill wise, obviously they would technically be considered tier 2 but this system puts little to no value on the term tier 2 as realistically skillwise none of them are close to this level. It feels more like game changers where its giving opportunities to, in this case, regions who arent as fully developed instead of creating a competitive ecosystem.
In americas, theres NA, LATAM North/south and Brazil. If it was the same as the mess of eu there would be a league for Bolivia as the Bolivian talent pool isnt that large and needs some support to develop.
Its way too inflated at the moment, at the end of the day, inclusivity seems really nice on paper, and im sure the italian players really appreciate the opportunity to play against other italian players, but long term, maybe 1 italian player max is going to get scouted from these teams as the level of play is so low, and playing against the same low level players isn't how scenes develop. Say one of these italian players got onto a team in one of potentially 3/4 mixed leagues, maybe eu Mediterranean league they would have a much much larger chance to get picked up by an established team.
ortuh [#25]when i said you cant pretend there are 400 tier 2 players i meant skill wise, obviously they would technically be considered tier 2 but this system puts little to no value on the term tier 2 as realistically skillwise none of them are close to this level. It feels more like game changers where its giving opportunities to, in this case, regions who arent as fully developed instead of creating a competitive ecosystem.
In americas, theres NA, LATAM North/south and Brazil. If it was the same as the mess of eu there would be a league for Bolivia as the Bolivian talent pool isnt that large and needs some support to develop.
Its way too inflated at the moment, at the end of the day, inclusivity seems really nice on paper, and im sure the italian players really appreciate the opportunity to play against other italian players, but long term, maybe 1 italian player max is going to get scouted from these teams as the level of play is so low, and playing against the same low level players isn't how scenes develop. Say one of these italian players got onto a team in one of potentially 3/4 mixed leagues, maybe eu Mediterranean league they would have a much much larger chance to get picked up by an established team.
Bro what. Think it through again
1st of all, ofc there are not 450 top tier 2 players and there never will if you do not give them somewhere to develop.
This is a long term project, look at it this way, if NA has to replace someone they have 50 candidates for the job, if EMEA does they have 450. The chances of building good players are insanely high and you have to fucking give them time to develop and become competitive.
What you’re proposing literally means that if a region is not good the second year of Valorant they will never be, you’ll wipe their scene.
2nd Tf you’re saying bro, why do BR and LATAM not share VCL then? There’s no ping issues there. Bolivia speaks the same language as all of LATAM and that’s why they’re the same region. EMEA has a lot of VCL’s but it’s because they’re completely different communities. Why do JP and KR not share VCL? Because they’re just not the same region
Mortadelo [#26]Bro what. Think it through again
1st of all, ofc there are not 450 top tier 2 players and there never will if you do not give them somewhere to develop.
This is a long term project, look at it this way, if NA has to replace someone they have 50 candidates for the job, if EMEA does they have 450. The chances of building good players are insanely high and you have to fucking give them time to develop and become competitive.What you’re proposing literally means that if a region is not good the second year of Valorant they will never be, you’ll wipe their scene.
2nd Tf you’re saying bro, why do BR and LATAM not share VCL then? There’s no ping issues there. Bolivia speaks the same language as all of LATAM and that’s why they’re the same region. EMEA has a lot of VCL’s but it’s because they’re completely different communities. Why do JP and KR not share VCL? Because they’re just not the same region
Building up scenes for certain regions is a good idea on paper, but this is all theoretical. Teams in these minor regions arent going to improve at a rate higher than those with good competition, they will not be able to catch up in this format. Language barrier excuse doesnt apply, as you dont need to be able to talk to your opponents? You can play with italians, just against actual competition. Do you think teams are going to pick up players who are stomping against unproven talent? Scouting rarely happens and everything is normally achievement based.
I come from rocket league, and a minor region of saudi arabia and the middle east has been developed into an actual contender vs eu and na. They were awful for so many years, just playing against other middle east teams, then they started getting invited to play in european event with all the other EU teams, actual real competition against teams better than them. Now the top ME team is a very strong side, and the region as a whole is pushing out talent after talent. None of these players would have had any recognition or opportunity if they hadnt played against teams outside of their region. They would have stayed at the same level, never getting to play against actual pro level teams asides from scrims.
Splitting everything up doesnt inspire growth as there is no challenge, and nothing to prove. Players like tomaszy who are stomping their regional league, may never get a chance to join a well established team, as he cant join any team outside of portugal unless theyre in ascension or franchised. And at that point would you take the gamble and sign someone like that who has no experience? It makes no sense for orgs to gamble like that, it could be that the Portugal region is so weak that him stomping means literally nothing.
ortuh [#27]Building up scenes for certain regions is a good idea on paper, but this is all theoretical. Teams in these minor regions arent going to improve at a rate higher than those with good competition, they will not be able to catch up in this format. Language barrier excuse doesnt apply, as you dont need to be able to talk to your opponents? You can play with italians, just against actual competition. Do you think teams are going to pick up players who are stomping against unproven talent? Scouting rarely happens and everything is normally achievement based.
I come from rocket league, and a minor region of saudi arabia and the middle east has been developed into an actual contender vs eu and na. They were awful for so many years, just playing against other middle east teams, then they started getting invited to play in european event with all the other EU teams, actual real competition against teams better than them. Now the top ME team is a very strong side, and the region as a whole is pushing out talent after talent. None of these players would have had any recognition or opportunity if they hadnt played against teams outside of their region. They would have stayed at the same level, never getting to play against actual pro level teams asides from scrims.
Splitting everything up doesnt inspire growth as there is no challenge, and nothing to prove. Players like tomaszy who are stomping their regional league, may never get a chance to join a well established team, as he cant join any team outside of portugal unless theyre in ascension or franchised. And at that point would you take the gamble and sign someone like that who has no experience? It makes no sense for orgs to gamble like that, it could be that the Portugal region is so weak that him stomping means literally nothing.
Nope, not the same case at all. First of all there is competition and it's called Ascension, and I get that it's not regular and for everyone but yk what is regular and for everyone? Praccs, they all scrim each other
Look at it as smaller game changers, small competitions dedicated to small communities to help them establish and grow with the biggest reward they could have given them which is Ascension at the end of the year
Mortadelo [#28]Nope, not the same case at all. First of all there is competition and it's called Ascension, and I get that it's not regular and for everyone but yk what is regular and for everyone? Praccs, they all scrim each other
Look at it as smaller game changers, small competitions dedicated to small communities to help them establish and grow with the biggest reward they could have given them which is Ascension at the end of the year
They could also scrim other teams, while playing in competitions that are also competitive? This is just a downgrade where its all about inclusivity rather than meritocracy. A team like apeks or les pettit bouffons are gonna get left out of ascension while an immo 2 italian team is gonna make it in. Now you take the best team out of these smaller regions and they have even less competition to play against. Replace the good team that left with a team thats worse than all the other teams and these leagues aren't developing
ortuh [#29]They could also scrim other teams, while playing in competitions that are also competitive? This is just a downgrade where its all about inclusivity rather than meritocracy. A team like apeks or les pettit bouffons are gonna get left out of ascension while an immo 2 italian team is gonna make it in. Now you take the best team out of these smaller regions and they have even less competition to play against. Replace the good team that left with a team thats worse than all the other teams and these leagues aren't developing
Ig we're not gonna agree so let's just drop it
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