nutab1e [#3]if they get patiphan I'd put them in top 3 maybe
they are likely getting Patiphan according to Flynn
Moi6969 [#2]Without sscary
crws has shown a lot of improvement on smokes as of late. Patiphan is a flexible dude and he could easily play crws' role.
capital_d_colon [#5]Cause drx, prx, T1 are better
T1 looks alright but there is too much role overlap for me to put them in top 4 atm. We'll have to see who their 5th is before we make any decisions.
Flyjin [#9]Even GenG
eh. I'm not sure I agree with you on that one. GenG looks decent at best. They have 1 excellent player in Meteor and then the rest of the team looks mid. TLN on the other hand have 2 hard carries in the form of Patiphan and Kadoom
WinterZ [#6]crws has shown a lot of improvement on smokes as of late. Patiphan is a flexible dude and he could easily play crws' role.
Sscary was by far their best most impactful player, without him I can’t see them as one of the best in apac, with time mb,
But not over drx prx t1
WinterZ [#11]eh. I'm not sure I agree with you on that one. GenG looks decent at best. They have 1 excellent player in Meteor and then the rest of the team looks mid. TLN on the other hand have 2 hard carries in the form of Patiphan and Kadoom
ons core > xerxia core, meteor > kazoom
WinterZ [#19]no way you unironically said this
wdym lmao, xerxia core literally lost to nth, one of the weakest teams in international vct ever. ons core with less than a month of preparation with a new roster managed to beat nth. and is meteor > kadoom really that questionable lmaooo
jimjam789 [#20]wdym lmao, xerxia core literally lost to nth, one of the weakest teams in international vct ever. ons core with less than a month of preparation with a new roster managed to beat nth. and is meteor > kadoom really that questionable lmaooo
XIA core also dominated SEA regionally for this whole year and that's without Patiphan but I don't see you talking about that.
WinterZ [#21]XIA core also dominated SEA regionally for this whole year and that's without Patiphan but I don't see you talking about that.
its almost 2023 and we still think apac is a tier 1 region? when sea's #2 couldnt do shit? if xerxia was shitting on apac, and then proceeded to get shit on by every other team where does that place apac? ok patiphan in, but sscary is also out so its a 1 for 1 trade. not to mention u talk about t1 having role issues when theres both kadoom and pati for tln
WinterZ [#21]XIA core also dominated SEA regionally for this whole year and that's without Patiphan but I don't see you talking about that.
in fact sscary for pati isnt even a 1 for 1 trade if you look at value. youre essentially trading apacs best controller for an additional duelist who hasnt played in vct for a year
jimjam789 [#23]its almost 2023 and we still think apac is a tier 1 region? when sea's #2 couldnt do shit? if xerxia was shitting on apac, and then proceeded to get shit on by every other team where does that place apac? ok patiphan in, but sscary is also out so its a 1 for 1 trade. not to mention u talk about t1 having role issues when theres both kadoom and pati for tln
As I said before, Patiphan is a flexible guy. He can adapt to just about any role thrown at him. Also, you act like East Asia is any better than APAC. East Asia's only consistently good team throughout all their history has been DRX whereas APAC has produced numerous top tier teams over the years.
WinterZ [#25]As I said before, Patiphan is a flexible guy. He can adapt to just about any role thrown at him. Also, you act like East Asia is any better than APAC. East Asia's only consistently good team throughout all their history has been DRX whereas APAC has produced numerous top tier teams over the years.
numerous top tier teams? which ones? ohhh you mean only fucking prx because every other sea team has gotten shit on. the only other decent team was x10 and their best accomplishment was making playoffs just once out of the entire 2021 year. you wanna talk about history? nuturn 3rd zeta 3rd drx 3rd drx 5-6th 5-6th 5-8th > prx 2nd prx 3rd x10 5-8th.
WinterZ [#25]As I said before, Patiphan is a flexible guy. He can adapt to just about any role thrown at him. Also, you act like East Asia is any better than APAC. East Asia's only consistently good team throughout all their history has been DRX whereas APAC has produced numerous top tier teams over the years.
aint no way ur saying east is just drx when northeption, who beat the 2nd best apac, came 3rd in an lcq lmao. EA's 5th > apacs 2nd lmaoo
jimjam789 [#26]numerous top tier teams? which ones? ohhh you mean only fucking prx because every other sea team has gotten shit on. the only other decent team was x10 and their best accomplishment was making playoffs just once out of the entire 2021 year. you wanna talk about history? nuturn 3rd zeta 3rd drx 3rd drx 5-6th 5-6th 5-8th > prx 2nd prx 3rd x10 5-8th.
Team Secret: 5-8th at Champs (only 1 tournament)
XIA/X10C: 5-8th at Champs
XIA/X10C: 7-8th at Masters 2 2021
PRX: 4th at Masters 1 2022
PRX: 2nd at Masters 2 2022
----------------------------------------------------------------------
DRX: 3rd place at Champions 2022
DRX: 5-6th place at Masters 1 and 2 2022'
Nuturn: 3rd place at Masters 2 2021 (only 1 tournament)
ZETA Division: 3rd place at Masters 1 2022 (only 1 tournament)
notice how your only consistent team is DRX? The number of achievements is the same but there is more variety in the APAC region than in EA region. Plus, APAC made grand finals in an international tournament. Can we say the same for EA?
jimjam789 [#27]aint no way ur saying east is just drx when northeption, who beat the 2nd best apac, came 3rd in an lcq lmao. EA's 5th > apacs 2nd lmaoo
I don't think that placing 3rd in an LCQ means much when the first place (who dominated the whole LCQ btw) went out dead last place at Champions kekw
WinterZ [#28]Team Secret: 5-8th at Champs (only 1 tournament)
XIA/X10C: 5-8th at Champs
XIA/X10C: 7-8th at Masters 2 2021
PRX: 4th at Masters 1 2022
PRX: 2nd at Masters 2 2022----------------------------------------------------------------------
DRX: 3rd place at Champions 2022
DRX: 5-6th place at Masters 1 and 2 2022'
Nuturn: 3rd place at Masters 2 2021 (only 1 tournament)
ZETA Division: 3rd place at Masters 1 2022 (only 1 tournament)notice how your only consistent team is DRX? The number of achievements is the same but there is more variety in the APAC region than in EA region. Plus, APAC made grand finals in an international tournament. Can we say the same for EA?
so we considering 7-8th in a 10 team tournament an accomplishment? the only team they beat was CR lmaoo. so essentially internationally, x10 has had 1 good showing internationally and thats simply a quarterfinal appearance.
3rd 3rd 5-6 x2 5-8th > 2nd 4th 5-8 x2
talking about how edg came last when not only did xia and boom come last but PRX APACS #1 COULDNT EVEN MAKE IT OUT OF GROUPS LOL.
yeah better than east my ass, EA 5th > APAC 2
WinterZ [#28]Team Secret: 5-8th at Champs (only 1 tournament)
XIA/X10C: 5-8th at Champs
XIA/X10C: 7-8th at Masters 2 2021
PRX: 4th at Masters 1 2022
PRX: 2nd at Masters 2 2022----------------------------------------------------------------------
DRX: 3rd place at Champions 2022
DRX: 5-6th place at Masters 1 and 2 2022'
Nuturn: 3rd place at Masters 2 2021 (only 1 tournament)
ZETA Division: 3rd place at Masters 1 2022 (only 1 tournament)notice how your only consistent team is DRX? The number of achievements is the same but there is more variety in the APAC region than in EA region. Plus, APAC made grand finals in an international tournament. Can we say the same for EA?
its so sad seeing you having to resort to 2021 to even make this argument somewhat close lmao. we literally saw the 2nd worst vct korean team 2 days ago with 2 subs almost beat team secret kekw
WinterZ [#29]I don't think that placing 3rd in an LCQ means much when the first place (who dominated the whole LCQ btw) went out dead last place at Champions kekw
yeah but APAC's 1st also went out in Groups. I don't think it's a viable comparison tbh, especially considering EDG were playing with a sub and it was their first LAN.
that's just my take tho
WinterZ [#28]Team Secret: 5-8th at Champs (only 1 tournament)
XIA/X10C: 5-8th at Champs
XIA/X10C: 7-8th at Masters 2 2021
PRX: 4th at Masters 1 2022
PRX: 2nd at Masters 2 2022----------------------------------------------------------------------
DRX: 3rd place at Champions 2022
DRX: 5-6th place at Masters 1 and 2 2022'
Nuturn: 3rd place at Masters 2 2021 (only 1 tournament)
ZETA Division: 3rd place at Masters 1 2022 (only 1 tournament)notice how your only consistent team is DRX? The number of achievements is the same but there is more variety in the APAC region than in EA region. Plus, APAC made grand finals in an international tournament. Can we say the same for EA?
sea is dogshit stop this nonsense. Prx still hasnt gotten out of groups without a bye. XIA went to 3 straight lans and got grouped all 3 times. SEA fans are deadass the most delusional people on this site.
gordonramsay [#33]sea is dogshit stop this nonsense. Prx still hasnt gotten out of groups without a bye. XIA went to 3 straight lans and got grouped all 3 times. SEA fans are deadass the most delusional people on this site.
Nice try jimjam alt
archetype [#32]yeah but APAC's 1st also went out in Groups. I don't think it's a viable comparison tbh, especially considering EDG were playing with a sub and it was their first LAN.
that's just my take tho
I mean, in all fairness, EDG played better with the sub than when they weren’t. As for the first part, every team has bad tournaments sometimes.
I appreciate how polite you were with this post. Unlike that jimjam guy who keeps baby raging and replying twice to all my posts.
jimjam789 [#30]so we considering 7-8th in a 10 team tournament an accomplishment? the only team they beat was CR lmaoo. so essentially internationally, x10 has had 1 good showing internationally and thats simply a quarterfinal appearance.
3rd 3rd 5-6 x2 5-8th > 2nd 4th 5-8 x2
talking about how edg came last when not only did xia and boom come last but PRX APACS #1 COULDNT EVEN MAKE IT OUT OF GROUPS LOL.
yeah better than east my ass, EA 5th > APAC 2
https://www.vlr.gg/130617/paper-rex-vs-edward-gaming-valorant-champions-2022-group-stage-opening-a
https://www.vlr.gg/51280/team-secret-vs-crazy-raccoon-valorant-champions-elim-c/?game=57943&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/43109/nuturn-vs-full-sense-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubsf
https://www.vlr.gg/43120/northeption-vs-full-sense-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-gf
https://www.vlr.gg/43119/full-sense-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-lbf
https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1
And that’s only some of the examples
WinterZ [#35]I mean, in all fairness, EDG played better with the sub than when they weren’t. As for the first part, every team has bad tournaments sometimes.
I appreciate how polite you were with this post. Unlike that jimjam guy who keeps baby raging and replying twice to all my posts.
I usually treat people with the same amount of respect they give me - so I'm just returning the favour.
Jimjam is a nice person too, he just feels very strongly about this subject matter.
I mean, in all fairness, EDG played better with the sub than when they weren’t.
This is true, but Life was the starting player so they switched out Smoggy for Life, even though Life had health issues during the tournament. I would agree with Jimjam here though. East Asia has a better record than APAC - they even win in the H2H matchup between APAC teams and EA teams (DRX & ZETA both beat PRX, Northeption beat Xerxia, and I think APAC's only win vs an East Asian team at a major tournament was TS & X10 vs CR at Champs & Masters back in 2021)
EA 3x 3rd place, 2x 5-6th place, 1x 5-8th place vs APAC 1x 2nd place, 1x 4th place, 2x 5-8th place overall
EA 2x 3rd place, 2x 5-6th place vs APAC 1x 2nd place, 1x 4th place in 2022
Like, East Asia just looks better. It's even more favourable for East Asia because PRX got guaranteed 8th place minimum at two tournaments because of the shitty seeding format. There will always be that asterisk regarding PRX's true performance because the only time PRX started in Groups they never made it to playoffs. In fact I believe every APAC team that started in groups never made it to playoffs, whereas only 2 EA teams failed in groups (Northeption at Copenhagen and ZETA at Champions)
IMO, EA got better results than APAC even though EA always started in Groups whereas APAC got an instant bye to playoffs. Xerxia were the 2nd best team in APAC, always 2nd fiddle to PRX, and got grouped every tournament this year. They even lost to Northeption, a maybe 4 month old team with comm issues. I think it's a similar story as to how people view DRX to KR - PRX is just the dominant team from APAC and the other teams are just kind of meh. East Asia has not only DRX, but also ZETA and EDG.
WinterZ [#36]https://www.vlr.gg/130617/paper-rex-vs-edward-gaming-valorant-champions-2022-group-stage-opening-a
https://www.vlr.gg/51280/team-secret-vs-crazy-raccoon-valorant-champions-elim-c/?game=57943&tab=overview
https://www.vlr.gg/43109/nuturn-vs-full-sense-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubsf
https://www.vlr.gg/43120/northeption-vs-full-sense-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-gf
https://www.vlr.gg/43119/full-sense-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-lbf
https://www.vlr.gg/39490/global-esports-vs-damwon-gaming-champions-tour-asia-pacific-last-chance-qualifier-ubro1And that’s only some of the examples
LMAO THANKS FOR BRINGING UP THE HEAD TO HEAD
EA vs SEA = 9-9 WITHOUT DRX
so they have an even record when include sea's best team prx and exclude EA's best team drx LMAOOOO
so together, its 12-9
not to mention majority of sea's wins in the head to head is in 2021 and it was against JAPAN. if u wanna do KR vs SEA the record is so much better
nice try idiot
theres no way u were linking head to head matchups in the lcq are completely disregarding the times where EA beat SEA in that same event kekw
jimjam789 [#38]LMAO THANKS FOR BRINGING UP THE HEAD TO HEAD
EA vs SEA = 9-9 WITHOUT DRX
so they have an even record when include sea's best team prx and exclude EA's best team drx LMAOOOO
so together, its 12-9
not to mention majority of sea's wins in the head to head is in 2021 and it was against JAPAN. if u wanna do KR vs SEA the record is so much better
nice try idiottheres no way u were linking head to head matchups in the lcq are completely disregarding the times where EA beat SEA in that same event kekw
Bro that’s literally my point. My point is that DRX is pretty much the only consistently good team in East Asia. If it weren’t for DRX, EA and APAC are the same, as proven via the h2h comparison. Which takes us right back to our point that TLN would be a top 3 team in VPL. The top 3 VPL teams imo are as follows:
1st Place: DRX
2nd Place: PRX
3rd Place: TLN
WinterZ [#39]Bro that’s literally my point. My point is that DRX is pretty much the only consistently good team in East Asia. If it weren’t for DRX, EA and APAC are the same, as proven via the h2h comparison. Which takes us right back to our point that TLN would be a top 3 team in VPL. The top 3 VPL teams imo are as follows:
1st Place: DRX
2nd Place: PRX
3rd Place: TLN
Idk about that take. Pati is good but he's coming off a wrist injury, TLN don't have sScary, their best player, and this same XERXIA core lost to Northeption, which was 100% a weaker team than current GEN.G and T1 (don't forget NTH had comm issues and JoXJo had to translate on the fly)
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