| Country: | Wales |
| Registered: | March 18, 2022 |
| Last post: | May 17, 2024 at 12:00 PM |
| Posts: | 9577 |
I've been pretty vocal about how important looking at deeper stats like traded-first deaths and true-first kills can be when looking at the value of duelists players and their entries.
Idk i just made this thread because I saw a lot of people/threads/tweets equating first deaths == bad player.
Zekken normally boasts a positive first kill win rate , so i havent seen his stat lines been brought up as much as this demon1 game.
First death is a good stat line but it requires more context to be useful.
Of course demon1 will have very high first involvements (first kill + first deaths) because he is the duelist player.
His role of nrg has been to go in first and make space.
Now the real question is how the rest of the team is capitalising on the space.
Is his first deaths getting traded? So maybe his first deaths arent as bad.
Or maybe his entry pathing is unsuccessful, perhaps he requires some more util/info to aid him.
In the context of the nrg game, a lot of Demon1's first deaths were pretty negative with Leviatan having very strong defensive reads/setups that negated his ability to make space.
NRG did plant the spike 5x on sunset, but the man advantages being created by Leviatan create extreme advantages especially with sunset being so retake heavy.
All time:
Right now:
This is a mismatch.
Lev shooting harder.
Better util.
Better macro.
better comps.
It's kinda crazy that JDG might be the biggest flop in vct this year.
What was a top 2 roster in china, dropped their igl due to roster restrictions and are now winless.
I don't watch all of the APAC games but whenever I watch TS (normally versus a top team) they always seem well drilled.
Warbirds and co always have good strategic depth, with a nice use of setplays, good macro and a understanding of what the opponent wants to do.
Invy has always stood out to me as a top initiator in the region.
So.. how come Team Secret always has a middling (still above 50%) win record.
Last year, I felt the same (except the firepower was slightly lower) and they were still the 5th best team in the region.
What is preventing TS from playing at international events?
yeah for sure. Development isn't linear though, playing T2 at the age is still a good achievement.
The czech duo in GoNext is super strong, GoNext have yet to lose a game with Alexiiik.
EMEA next generation is looking stacked:
This is just a few of the players, 18 or younger, playing in t2 rn.
Dplus ... in ascension they were playing so slow that it made emea valorant look fast.
Chronicle.
He's peaked way higher.
For some reason people think he's not that flexible just because fnatic had very structured/fixed compositions last year.
Gamechangers event where each team is required to play 3 duelist....
It's being held in London from the 20th to the 21st.
Surprised barbarr hadn't broken a desk yet watching that defense side.
I haven't seen Koi shoot this hard since that Navi game in 2023.
its a #swerlyworld
Kaajak or Akai for me.
Really hope a T1 org picks up Akai, has a super high ceiling.
Round 3 sums up the issues with M8.
They managed to turn what was a potential bonus round conversion into an absolute calamity.
They wouldn't have ascended if they didn't play this style of valorant, very "in your face" and allows for individual play making.
However, the style crumbles against the top teams.
It's a lack of leaders.
Always had the mechanical talents Brazil just lacks the conductor who could make the pieces work in tandem.
(correct me if im wrong but Brazil didnt have as many igls switch over compared to the likes of NA).
I think you are getting Zikz confused with zecK.
different people, similar names both coached in the EG setups but had different roles.
https://twitter.com/EvilGeniuses/status/1593333165896122370
https://twitter.com/EvilGeniuses/status/1655996061251403797
I believe.
He can definitely perform better than what he is doing right now, hopefully he can show it soon.
Doesn't exactly help that there is a constant cloud of negativity over GE, regardless of what happens.
Needs some more consistency in his OPing (also some positioning issues), his rifling has looked good enough.
Very unfortunate, especially with how limited T1 opportunities can be in LATAM (or just franchising in general).
There's still a lot that you can gain from being in and around a tier 1 team but hopefully he gets his time to shine soon.
It's currently looking like a very astute pickup.
He's slotted in well and has helped to raise the firepower of the roster.
Not exactly sure about the details that led to his "falling out" at mibr/bzka but hopefully his time at KRU continues going smoothly.
KRU have a very nice run of games furia (2-1), Mibr and then EG which provides the team a launchpad to gain confidence for the tougher fixtures.
Keznit-shyy-heat trio is incredibly underrated, shyy in particular with him being a top anchor in the americas.
Atom aswell is someone who gets overlooked, despite how well he did last year.
Breaking into the Americas' top 4 is tough though, its going to require another lcq-esque run to get to an international event.
Probably good to end it there then considering I have constantly mentioned points which go in one ear and out the other.
It's obvious to see the likes of harbor/astra are in a healthy spot when looking at their stats in a pro play scenarios or actually just understanding that their kits require teamwork and macro usage but you are so focused about me bringing up ranked stats because I was trying to emphasise the fact Iso is not a successful ranked agent. Which I literally mentioned when you used the strawman argument for Kay/o.
The basis of the argument is that iso kit has not translated well for either Pro Play or in Ranked.
but you are adamant that he is in a good spot for solo q.
Somewhat but if you look at the trend in free fire viewership, free fire has fallen down.
I dont know enough about freefire so maybe there is some reasonings behind it.
League on the other hand has has some sought of growth over the past few years, with viewership constantly building upon itself.
It's actually ridiculous how big LoL is.
The gap between LoL and the next biggest PC esport is a canyon.
It still has its problems in some region (vietnam aware) but the growth in LEC and LCK this year is crazy.
Chinese viewership isnt available to the general public.
Everyone just goes uses the escharts reported figures, its easier for comparisons etc.
thats cool but we're talking about solo q not pro play dumbass.
The original thread was about Iso's kit as a whole. An agent being useful in either a pro play setting or in a ranked play setting demonstrates some sought of success in their kit. Outside of using popularity and win rate stats the opinionated points surrounding Iso's kit can be easily deemed as subjective.
His q acts as a fade seize that lasts longer and is on a duelist
All his Q/"Undercut" provides is the fragile effect.
Fade's seize provides a decay, restricts movement and deafens the enemy. Whilst also providing a slight indicator to whether an enemy was hit or not. That's not even mentioning the other util Fade provides.
His C (which ironically is a tool for taking space contradicting your earlier point) is a better harbor wall for taking space.
Iso's one charge thin wall is not better than Harbor's two charges which has the option to stopped.
Even outside of the frequency of the wall, Harbor's wall also provides a slowing effect and lasts longer.
The indestructibleness can be useful but it stills weak in comparison.
Besides it's all good to argue about each ability in isolation but what makes an agent useful is the way they can use their abilities in tandem. With the comparison with Reyna you are forgetting the flexibility of use cases that the devour/dismiss combo allows for. Reyna's kit works well for individual expression which it was made for, Iso has individuality in some of his abilities but in unison the kit does not function as smoothly or as usefully as Reyna.
Of course ranked pickrates/winrates do not always correlate with the overall state of an agent.
But when you bring the argument that Iso is "in a completely OK state rn outside of pro play" and equate his performances to a similar agent like reyna despite the fact he his massively underperforming her in every metric it seems ridiculous.
I don't think Kay/o needs a buff because he's utility translates over to a structured pro play scenario very well, which is shown in his pick rates in a pro play.
You are making the argument that an agent that has no popularity in pro play and no popularity on the ladder is in a "ok state" which is laughable.
His kit is indeed on the selfish end of things however his kit is still far weaker than other agents that fall in this category.
He's not in an "ok state" his current kit is very underwhelming and does not provide any space creation or any advantage over another agent in the roster.
Despite both agents being viewed as "ranked agents" Reyna still does have a small presence in pro play.
Reyna has been played at every VCT event this year (this includes every regions kick//off and Masters Madrid).
Iso has not been played a single time.
In terms of ranked presence in 8.04 for all ranks, which was last patch. (according to metasrc).
Reyna is the 2nd most popular with a 11.13% pick rate. (highest rank win rate, 50.62%)
Iso was the 4th least popular with a 1.55% pick rate. (3rd lowest rank win rate, 49.40%)
Yes Iso's kit can be viewed as selfish but i wouldn't say he is an OK state right now.
In terms of ranked pick rate he is still like bottom 5 at all rank levels.
If you changed his E (DOUBLE TAP, the ability that provides a shield to ISO) so that it granted an initial shield upon activation as well as a refresh on kills, would that be too OP?
It would help to improve his ability to make/create space dramatically.
You could always reduce its up time and some changes to its costs/charges to make it more balanced.
Currently, he's not in a very good state especially at the highest level.
Other than that change, you would probably need to rework his kit.
How?
In terms of the GiantX squad he has done pretty well so far.
I was pretty impressed with the ideas surrounding set plays that they used at champs.
Their IGL (rhyme) decided to retire after 2023, which resulting in them needing to bring in redgar.
Had a tough group at Kick//off but still were competitive, lets see how they perform in split 1 before we jump to conclusions.
Hype has Polaris residency which Nukkye does not have.
By removing Hype, Apeks would not be eligible for Polaris at this moment in time.
That was Rhyme, the Norwegian former IGL for Giants.
Also I could easily see Valve cramping down on CS skin gambling again because of this.
Which would be good to see, its such a vile industry.
Scamming gambling site pays people to storm the stage in "protest" of another scamming gambling site!!!
like yeah man you look completely sane doing this.
Renting 10 girls to dance behind you on stream definitely makes you look like the sane guys.
The game is older.
The demographic is also older.
The venues and the players are more historic.
European crowds have more "Ultras" like the Golden Hornets, these are in valorant but they are not as involved.
These things take time to develop.
The Madrid crowd was good though.
Best player outside of the top team in the region now riding the bench for a year.
Yes, it makes sense for PRX to do this considering the reason for getting Monyet in the first place is now gone.
Hopefully Monyet can leave PRX in the off//season, a player of his calibre is too good to be a 6th.
Neither NAVI or NRG were superteams last year?
Superteams are created when you combine multiple big pieces from different teams into one.
NAVI kept a 4 man core.
NRG kept s0m who was unproven internationally at the time + the optic pieces were more of the support core rather than the star pieces. (still very good players).
FNC was, and they were a success.
Outside of the top 10 it becomes a lot harder and more opinionated.
It's kinda hard to judge how good teams were now and how could they could be based on such a limited sample size.
Almost every team haven't even revealed their whole map pools either.
KC 13-8 FPX ICEBOX
KC 13-10 FPX LOTUS
HERETICS 13-5 SEN SUNSET
HERETICS 13-10 PRX LOTUS
KC 13-6 PRX LOTUS
So 5 maps won. 3 on lotus, 1 on icebox and 1 on sunset.
Heretics also beat PRX on Lotus. (if you are talking about the head to head, heretics beat them on split + lotus in EMEA groups.)
Both teams are very close to each other though.
My main way of comparing KC and Heretics were on how they fared versus Sentinels.
I felt watching the game heretics were slightly better in comparison.
Beating PRX always requires some sort of experience versus their style, which both teams lacked and PRX games quite often have a lot of variance in their performances.
This cloud9 roster should have never gone ahead.
The roster was built by Zellsis with the plan of him transitioning into an IGL role. (igl being arguably the most important piece in roster construction).
However, he then left to join Sentinels after he was given a good deal to be a 6th man. (can't blame him really, good pay + try content creation).
So now we have a roster which was built around... no one?
The players aren't really the problem, we now just have a roster built without a reason or purpose anymore.
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