no clue i didnt even notice lol

DRX 2-0 FPX

Minecraft clears

i'll start the lessons tommorrow

Dort will be here soon, you've summoned the demon

do you remember who grouped geng

Tragic, but I knew they weren't gonna win it all anyways. Spot belonged to OXG.

Cuz TSM had Myth Daequan and Hamlinz so im obligated to root for them

you really think they lost because they got anti-stratted? They got full anti-stratted on Lotus, Split, Ascent, Haven and Bind? Or are we having trouble admitting other teams were better?

Basically all the evidence points to full strength EG beating FNC at Tokyo

Something literally took them to champs finals immediately, and further than fnatic at 3 straight events.

Last line is a bit subjective, to be great in my book you have to be the best in the world at some point in time.

it was to safely retrieve the bomb, so that the AK player has to make a decision to stay or rotate

I TAKE BACK WHAT I SAID HOLY FUCK

That wasn't a fake

But yeah they aren't playing to win rn

You were typing in broken english so I thought you were using google translate

What is more unfair? Giving a trophy to a team that wasn't the best? Or calling it out?

glad we agree!

I don't hear no fat lady singing! (copium)

not gonna ascend playing like this anyways but we have hope!

A mod in the chat just confirmed that if tsm win they qualify

The whole story: They have 1 trophy (the worthless one broke) that they didn't deserve

In valorant the world championship is at the end of the season. They are masters winners, not world champions. But when they won their masters they were not the best.

a preseason, single elimination tournament with no qualifiers cannot be used to determine who the best team is. That is why it is not S-tier like masters or champions. It doesn't matter if liquidpedia says it is.

Tokyo was S-tier, but they were not the best team in the world when they won Tokyo. The entire post explains why PRX and EG were better.

Hopefully that translates well.

having a tiktok attention span is not a flex!

You are wrong, they never where champions, it was Acend, LOUD, EG, EDG

1. No team has won 2 champions
2. Fnatic hasn't even won 2 masters
3. Fnatic was not the best team in the world when they won their 1

TSM sucking will never change 1, 2, or 3.

Theres no way to prove it, obviously

But there are multiple lines of evidence that strongly suggest it:

No reason to believe Fnatic got worse from Tokyo -> Champs

Nerfed EG pushes fnatic hard at Tokyo (see the main post) -> 1 month later Full strength EG clearly better

Something is at his best, but can't attend -> 1 month later Full strength PRX is outperforming FNC, this continues for 3 events, even with the monyet iteration

skuba seems like an obv choice

i didn't say that, I said i'm gonna give it to them to keep the post short, since the focus is on FNC for this post. Theres many things you could say about the Acend run that bring its legitimacy into question, starting with the gifted win due to a cypher cam that could see 3 feet deeper than usual.

But I'm not gonna dive into all of that because the focus of this is FNC.
----------------------------------------------------------------

FNC absolutely slapped PRX in tokyo

Scroll up to the top of ur page and read the 'PRX' section.

EG 3-0 although there were 2 close maps it was still a 3-0

Scroll up to the top of ur page and read the 'EG' section.

Reading too hard? Heres a summary:
Full strength EG and PRX > FNC
FNC could not legitimately or definitively say they were better than them

There was a clear gap between the level PRX, EG, and LOUD were playing at - they were all fairly competitive with each other - vs Fnatic, who kinda got smacked by Loud. Yes X>Y>Z is never perfect, but the only way to judge how good teams are is to see who beats who and how they beat them. There is literally no other way.

Furthermore, do you see either of LOUD, EG, or PRX at that time getting 13-1'd on their own map pick by DRX (the perma 5-6th team)? We actually have the answer for EG.

Its pretty obvious the gap between EG, PRX, and LOUD was smaller than the gap between LOUD and FNC (and the rest).

Kru

you didn't get the news?

They were not dominant internationally, there are obvious reasons to believe that there was 2 teams in the world that would've beat them at Tokyo if not for out-of-game stuff. Also the form fall off is all hindsight, people only started saying that after they lost to save face (they didnt fall of btw they got exposed). Nobody at the time had any reason to believe they had fallen off in the 1 month between events.

Its not like they were playing matches at the time and started losing them like SEN after madrid. In the group stage they were still smacking teams in a way people expected of them. Nobody at the time suggested and nothing had indicated they fell off.
-----------------------------------------------------------
So what makes you think FNC would've beat the team that beat Loud if Loud beat them so resoundingly?
The maps between FNC and Loud were:
13-11
13-6 *FNC map pick

13-4 FNC map pick
13-9 FNCs only win
13-7
Thats not a close loss(es), meanwhile Loud vs PRX:

13-15
13-2 *Less god mode lmao
13-10

There was a big gap between the level FNC was playing at and the level Loud/PRX/EG was playing at

No matter what happens they're still not making idk what ur celebrating

No you cannot explain everything this way,

Sen Reykavic - you can not name any team in the world that was better at the time
EG Los Angeles - you can not name any team in the world that was better at the time
FPX Copenhagen - you can not name any team in the world that was better at the time (if PRX decides to troll thats their fault)
GMB Berlin - you can not name any team in the world that was better at the time
etc.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Optic 22' - You can make the case that FPX could've possibly beaten them at that time, given they were barred from attending and won the next event. This case is somewhat weak because FPX only played at that level for that one event, and optic was once again better at champs, and the core was better later on (and before). But you can definitely debate this. Optic's win has an asterisk on it
ACE 21' - This one is very tricky but i'll give it to them and leave it alone to keep this short

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
FNC 23' - OH BOY. Both the star players from the other 2 regions(china didn't matter) best teams both have visa issues that affect team performance. One can't practice with his team and the other literally can't attend.

And EG pushes you that hard even with that going on?
And both of them are the finalists at the next tourney?
and they both beat the Loud, who smacked FNC?
And even though EG disbanded, PRX are better for than them for a long time afterwards?
Fraudulent win.

everyone lost to zombs in 2021

Yeah, up until franchising their greatest accomplishment was that first run where they made finals and went 0-5 vs zombs in total. We are in agreement.

ur acting like PRX NRG and EG having issues were fnatics fault they wouldve won regardless

they wouldve won regardless

So why didn't they win the next tourney just a month later when EG and PRX where at full strength?

Are you gonna pullout the classic 'only loud could beat them' excuse?

Also NRG was never gonna beat them, I just pointed out Ardiss played historically dogshit map 2

I only hate fnatic as a team/org and neon as an agent. My favorite player is also from EMEA

Nothing is bait - every single point from the 0-5 record vs Zombs to only 2 maps vs nerfed EG being decisive is true.

The only point that anybody ever seriously challenged was in #41 (saying the game basically came down to a smoke spam).

Everything else is coping or just trying to ignore the truth "iDc tHeY sTiLl hAvE 2 TrOpHiEs"

Thats a pretty big oversimplification. Its not like both teams aren't playing to build ult economy or that even then those rounds are guaranteed. I also don't think you understand what a miracle round is. This is a miracle round. Pulling off a man disadvantage by itself does not make a round a miracle round. Neither does winning an eco automatically make the round a miracle round. The only round that was really a miracle round on either side was the "New king of hell round" for EG (insane shots and heroics)

plat 3 in just 2 months is pretty good, just keep playing and you'll be there one day

shocks to break trip, darts can be used longer distances, sova ult kill potential + potential for combo trap plays are the big reasons why sova is better for sunset than fade

Full potential sym is the best player in the world

you think there is not much to learn about cypher because you are in diamond and are still learning the game. Try anchoring on breeze B site in high rank and being expected to be good for one against a full site hit and you'll see there's levels to it.

initiator is the worst for ranking up because your relying on setting up your teammates to get value (you should be able to identify the problem here)

but if you really want to play those two

Sova - Ascent Haven Breeze Icebox Sunset

Fade - Bind Lotus

either - pearl

neither - split (play skye or breach here)

lookup Johnnypkay and Tseeky for sova guides, Tseeky and Ztol for Fade guides
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killing enemies off guard is not my thing and feels very dirty

I know you're new to the game and i fully understand why people think cypher is ratty, but in general this game is about making the fights you take as unfair as possible. If you are in a situation where you give someone a fair fight when you could be using util to make it unfair, you aren't playing the game right and are bad.

I know, I think the dream roster pickups would be +N4rrate +Zander/Skuba

Shit is like the fortnite plane and mech meta, anyone who thinks it belongs in the game is just stupid

I personally consider Jawg the #1 raze but I wanna see what yall think

Who's playing raze?

btw, if you weren't trying to desperately find an excuse for why fnatic can only win when other teams are nerfed, you would have noticed that Optic's win at reyk has a similar issue to Fnatic's at tokyo.

But you are blinded by the cope

shanghai - patitek was not a true sub, this wasn't a c9 curry slotting in for 1 event situation. He played with them a good chunk of the year. They were also arguably better with him
Madrid - they did have a full roster, a roster change is different from not being allowed to play with your actual roster because of visa issues
LA 23 - they did have a full roster, a roster change is different from not being allowed to play with your actual roster because of visa issues
Tokyo 23 - its true for EG and especially PRX
Sao paulo - not a major so who really cares that much
Loud 2022 - Gambit existed that year buddy
https://www.vlr.gg/68995/funplus-phoenix-vs-gambit-esports-champions-tour-stage-1-emea-challengers-week-2
https://www.vlr.gg/112607/m3-champions-vs-team-liquid-champions-tour-emea-last-chance-qualifier-gf/?game=90932&tab=overview

NT THO!

fnatic did better than prx at lock in

🐁🐁🐁

absolutely better than prx in tokyo

Giving off heavy raptors beat Warriors without KD energy

an you just accept that youre a small hater and move on with it

I am the biggest fnatic (and neon) hater (truth teller) on this site. Do me justice

https://www.vlr.gg/381306/stats-data-science-majors

#7,#11

5 days a week fully remote

Every second of free time that I can use to tarnish Fraudnatic's fake legacy is a second well spent

https://www.vlr.gg/381306/stats-data-science-majors

#7, #11

Yeah but liquid beating fnatic was a fluke and we all know it.

PRX beating GENG in a bo5 was not a fluke. They were competitive with GENG for the first half of the year https://www.vlr.gg/296747/gen-g-vs-paper-rex-champions-tour-2024-pacific-kickoff-winners-c/?game=155165&tab=overview

People forget that they were the favorites to win shanghai going into it. They just got jingg back (they were champs finalists with him) and when they beat GENG (Madrid #2) in the bo5 alot of people had them winning shanghai.

PRX started to fall off throughout 2024. They ended 2023 as champs finalists (better than FNC). did decent at madrid (better than FNC). and Ok at shanghai (still better than FNC).

I don't think it was ever revealed, probably screwface tho cuz he was the 6th right?