deserves FUT by far but VIT def could win this game
| Flag: | United States |
| Registered: | June 16, 2021 |
| Last post: | October 7, 2024 at 11:07 PM |
| Posts: | 1101 |
deserves FUT by far but VIT def could win this game
qw1 by far rn but Twisten has a much better raze, jett is just very important and qw1 is playing a lot better on her and is more of his teams carry.
Point is that they're peak has never been very good pre franchising, they had a good run at champs and have been consistently top 8 in 2022 but every person ranked above them should indisputably be since they won events and/or had consistent high placing, higher than DRX.
Theres a lot of things wrong here lol. This post is about pre-franchising to start, and DRX beating FPX twice doesn't make them a better team. FPX won a LAN and tho struggled against DRX that's literally the only team they've every struggled against. Against literally every other team in their two LANs they played they were 13-2. DRX for sure had there number, doesn't mean they were a more elite or successful team. Ya they beat FPX, how about what they did against OG, Loud and even Zeta division lol. They were obviously great in champs which put them up a bit but apart from that they didn't get out of groups once in '21 and in 22 they hard choked against Zeta and in the most important match they played against FPX they didn't win. If they were really that much better than FPX then why didn't they get blown out when they had a chance to get top 4 in Stage 2. They're obviously a good team but man ranking them above teams that won a LAN when they've never even made a final and have only been top 4 once is just comical.
Mazino has been bad recently but the amount of people wanting him dropped atm is crazy.
I really don't love that analysis because the team hasn't actually been given a shot to prove that wrong and people can kinda just get away with saying it without much analysis. ACE dropped their first map of the tournament and then went 8 straight maps wins in their four games before Gambit. They were dominant against Envy(no1 NA), TL(top 3 EU) and beat the best team ITW in a BO5. That's not a fluke at all. I think people mostly think that because they never did anything after but a roster change and zeek mental health issues stopped them from even getting a chance to compete again, and the LAN before they played well and were 1-2 fights away from ending top 4. That team was far from a fluke and were obviously a step behind the top 3 but were a fantastic squad. Also you know that DRX argument at the end there is dumb lol
What have DRX actually done to deserve being called a top 3 team? They never made it out of GS in '21 and their best performance was a 3rd place. How can you possibly put them over FPX and ACE?
I'm going to do this in chronological order, this is not a ranking of the teams but just the 10 I feel like were "elite" during the VCT era(basically the first 6 LANs). My general criteria is top 6 team in two straight LANs, or in some cases being great all year except for one LAN. So... starting chronologically
2021 S2-S3 SEN:
1 LAN win, top 8 in next LAN but lost to top 2 team. 3-2 at that LAN
2021 S3-Champs Gambit:
1 LAN win, 1 second place where they beat another team on the list
2021 S3-champs Acend:
Champs win, 1 5-8 in a very close game, beat another team on the list on the LAN win
2021 KRU(mostly s3-Champs):
Top 3-4 and 5-8, nearly beat Gambit but beat S2 champs and runner up OTW to almost finals. My last pick for this list and likely the least elite team here.
2022 Optic:
LAN win, 2nd place, 3rd place. Most consistent 3 LAN stretch of any team
2022 Loud:
Champs win, 2nd place and a qual for S3 but bad performance
2022 S1-S2 Paper Rex:
2nd place, 4th place in the 2 LANs, only Optic was better. Beat 2 teams on the list in S2
2022 DRX:
3rd at champs, 5-6 at both other LANs. beat 3 of the teams on the list in playoffs during that time
2022 FPX S2-Champs:
1 LAN win, 1 fourth place, 1 qual as a first place team in EU but couldn't play. 4 wins against teams on this list.
2022 FNC S2-Champs:
4th and 5-6th place, if fully roster in S1 would likely be seen as a better team. beat 1 team on this list for champs. Probably second weakest behind KRU.
Teams just missing out: '21 Envy(choked at champs after a top 2 in S3), '21 FNC and TL (both good in first and last stages but never were ELITE), '22 LEV and XSET(never elite but both very good).
My general rankings(very disputable):
Yay Saadhak or Chronicle are the only actual players with arguments.
I mean its pretty easy to see that kiNgg's viper is elite, like top top tier itw, even if his IGLing has fallen off hard. All statistics and eye test can see how impactful he is on the character and LEV is a notably better team when he's playing it versus breach and kayo. Just because his team is ass and he's the IGL doesn't mean he isn't at or above the two we've mentioned.
ya they for sure need ange1 to play cypher that's definitely gonna win them the game instead of any of zypaan raze shao fade or cned jett
MaKo kiNgg Less clear both unfortunately
ange1 is trying to cook too hard instead of just letting zypaan play it with cned on sage
hence why I said coming into this game.....
That's completely fair but both LEV and Furia coming into this game deserved it less than 100T.
I mean Valyn previously stated that he was open to playing on teams as either controller or initiator. We just haven't seem him on initiator because Guard is best when Trent and Jonah are on those. He knows how to play that role and if its Tenz Zekken him Marved and insert sentinel player the roles would work completely fine IMO.
Flyuh has over 600 rounds on all three sentinels+viper and plays a bunch of initiators. His agent pool is huge and would allow Bang and Asuna to play virtually whatever they wanted to. I see your point with Valyn but Valyn calling and fragging>>>>Stellar to the point where him having to learn KJ and/or initiators wouldn't be that big of a deal.
I mean I'd still much rather have Flyuh Johnqt or Valyn if I am 100T next year. IMO those three, Runi, Boostio, and FNS should be the IGLs in NA next year with 2 of them going to SEN/100T and the other winning ascension.
Or just put Sacy on it and Zekken on Sova he's honestly a better sova than sacy and Sacy is obviously a better breach
Atleast people know he's ass, Mwzera has been riding the hype from his Raze in 2021 and has had zero results to show for. He's genuinely good at initiators but if they're gonna rely on him to frag out on raze and run double duelist then they're fucked atm
Chronicle Leo Mako is still top 3 but after that Alfa is the best sentinel which instantly makes him a top 6-7 player in my eyes
I did an NA one and I'm bored so EU time
A Tier(Top 2 by far)
FNC is still number 1 until proven otherwise but since the KOI loss and the team comps have solidified more NAVI has been looking like a top 4 team ITW. Excited for this matchup but no matter the result I personally will have FNC as my favorite to win EU's playoffs
B Tier (group of good not great)
EU is pretty easy to rank because the worse teams lose to the better teams that they play. TL can't beat NAVI or FNC but can beat GIA, and GIA, despite the ugly loss to TH, beats all the teams below them. Both are 3-2 in their last 5 but TL beat GIA in an extremely close series. Even in a BO5 these teams probably go to the final map.
C Tier (Turkish meh teams)
FUT started much better but at this point BBL looks much better. Started 0-4 but have been 3-1 in their last 4, beating the bottom half teams and playing TL fairly close(Turkish Ascent BTW). FUT started hot and are a for sure tier above the teams below them but aren't good enough at this point to compete with the top 4. I see both of these teams qualifying but still losing(BBL needs to beat FUT to qual IIRC).
D Tier(IDEK with these guys)
Vitality are in the same spot that SEN are for me. Could actually make playoffs and are for sure better than these teams below them, but god have they looked bad recently. They did have a tough stretch of games and will likely beat TH but they don't inspire much confidence.
F Tier(Order these bums in anyway it doesn't matter)
TH>KCORP>KOI>TH in h2h rn so all of them in theory can beat the other, and they all blow so much that who really cares. I believe they can still technically qual with FUT and TH wins next week but none of them deserve it. I ordered them this way because TH did beat GIA just now and are positive in maps with Weber, and KOI at least have taken maps in their recent losses, which KCORP haven't. Either way they all suck so it doesn't really matter. Definitely all on DFM KRU MIBR level (may sneak GEN.G in there at this point).
Concise List
Cryo is honestly better atm
I completely agree, similar to old Optic losing right at the end of groups and regional play then dominating on LAN. I just feel like they're below the 2 NA Teams atm.
foxy9 is playing pretty mediocre despite playing on by far the best team in a 1 team region. Jingg Saya and Something currently clear and he's gotta show he's better than Buzz on it for me to call him anywhere close to top 5.
A Tier(favorites)
All three are pretty interchangeable but based on current form C9 is undefeated and 10/11 on maps in their last 5 games so they should be number 1, and NRG just beat LOUD and recently has been performing better versus tougher opponents. Their first map performance, though still a great team, is starting to become a real problem.
B Tier(should be playoff teams)
Call me NA biased but 100T loses to the top tier teams and clears out the rest of the teams around them, based on current form they're the next best. EG dropped a match to Furia but beat LEV and played Loud well for 2 maps. They aren't the strongest team but recent form has been high
C Tier(Weak even if they make playoffs)
Furia is above LEV because at least they can beat teams in their own tier of play, but their loss against 100T puts them below EG for me. LEV has been looking bad and can currently only beat the teams below them in the power rankings. Even if they make playoffs they're gonna need a miracle to win games
D Tier
Other two teams are firmly below but this SEN team isn't beating either LEV or Furia I'm sorry. I'd love to see them prove me wrong in 2 days but IDK
F Tier
Yes I ranked the 0 win team over MIBR. Atleast what I can give KRU is that they're competing in their series that they've played recently. Since starting 2-1, MIBR has yet to win a map. They've averaged 4 round wins per map their last 2 games. They can barely even get to OT against bad teams. If they rematched I'm confident KRU wins.
Concise list
Ethan has only played iniators this year apart from one yoru game, c0m has also played a lot of sova but his only two agents he plays are sova and viper so I count him as the flex. In general they flex their controller role more than their initiator role.
Shao is a flex for the team he has nearly double the rounds on non initiators than he does to actual initiators. He'll likely be number 2 on my flex list tho. As for qraxs he's basically a kayo one trick which isn't a bad thing especially in EU where the agent is more valued but I just don't think he's ahead of anyone I listed.
I'm counting him as a flex and Carpe as their main, he'll probably be on my flex list but he's playing more Harbor and viper than initiators
God Tier Players Tier
H.M
invy, MOLSI, Xeppaa
I've already done sentinel and duelist at this point so I think I'm just going to complete the series, next up being controller after this.
For this tier list, I put most of my value into their skye play, as well as breach and sova being very important. For me, the current meta for main initiator players (so not flex players like Chronicle) is being able to play Skye and Sova at a high level with breach on 1-2 maps, which is why Kayo and Fade isn't as important to my rankings. THEIR ABILITY ON NON INITIATORS HAS NO BEARING ON THESE RANKINGS.
Starting at the top it's undeniable that Leo is number one and I won't take any other answer. After him we get Crashies, NZR, and Zyppan who all feel like amazing players at their roles. Crashies is the consistency god and plays Sova and Skye so well, as well as being able to play Breach Kayo and Fade very well. NZR has quietly joined him in being a god tier support on the same two characters, but he's a step below because he brings less fragging. Zyppan has a weirder agent pool because NAVI doesn't play Breach and Shao as their flex is their sova player, but his flash initiators are some of if not the best in the world.
Ethan Jamppi and Cloud all fall into the next tier because I like one or two specific of their agents but they aren't on the level of the three above them. All three are extremely underrated and posses good qualities for different reasons. Ethan is great on flashes, Jamppi is a fantastic fragger on skye while Cloud is amazing on sova(both top 2 in each agent) while playing the other one fairly well. With Jamppi you just need to see more consistency and with Cloud he honestly just needs a better team supporting cast and I think he could be top 5.
Cauanzin and Stax round out the jack of all trades tier, playing a ton of different agents but I wouldn't say they're as high of level as the guys ahead. For stax in particular he would be much higher if his IGLing didn't hinder his playstyle, but he's still amazing and the second most consistent initiator of all time behind crashies. Cauanzin had a great start to the year but has fallen behind quite a few Americas initiators. Still a great player who plays the 3 most important initiators. As for Trexx, I saw it as needing one more guy in the top 10 and since he's technically KOI's initiator I wanted to add him. He may be the best Kayo in the world and plays both skye and sova very well, another story of put him on a top tier team and he looks like a god.
honorable mentions mostly come down to having too small of an initiator pool and being more flex players, but I think if all three transitioned to full time initiator they would be top 10 players.(in Invy's case he only plays breach and kayo well which sucks in this current meta when you'd want him on sova and playing better on skye)
Overall regional rankings:
EU: 5/10
Americas: 4/10
APAC: 1/10
EU and Americas dominate this role compared to APAC, who really only has stax and the argument for invy and Bazzi(or F0rsaken if he sticks with the role). Americas have 3 of the top 5, but EU has the best and 4 of the top 7 so you still probably lean there for initiator players. LMK if there's any guys I might've left out or if my ranking is just dogshit
Boostio is over John even before this game
no way u actually think Optic was the second best team in their region after S1 when they 2-0ed the guard to qualify but lost in 5 games in the grand final that they expiremented with new comps and maps that were usually perma bans
IGLing is the biggest weak point for every BR team that doesn't have Saadhak, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be putting the best team around them. I disagree with dropping Khalil but qck for sure.
def should be qck lol, not once this year has he shown he's franchising level and khalil already plays sentinels. Replace him, bring in pancada is the most simple easy fix.
Ya they were the best in their region, but so was Optic and they actually won something. Just because FPX beat them many months later in a completely different tournament doesn't mean you can discount Optic or boost up FPX. It's a super flawed argument.
The final sentence of ur post is such a stupid argument. There's no way to neither prove nor deny if they were better but they didn't beat Optic in Stage 1 and Optic did win, so how can you discount them over an unprovable argument.
ya one stage of FPX over them is crazy seeing as they were also the best before wiping the floor with the whole world
They're closer to second best in APAC than they are to third and I think you can make an argument for them over PRX in some ways but Saya is looking like the second best player in that region and Ban has improved so so much but PRX's core 4 (sorry mindfreak) have been so good it's hard to not choose them over
none of the apac duelists would compete with Mako so he probably would still get it.
not when mako exists lol
EG is better than LEV, MXM is better than current OXG, M80 is not better than NRG. This is just lazy.
I mean Furia is probably not even top 6 in Americas even if they qual after that loss to 100T who I would've previously said is 7th place
Dawg obviously C9 instead of Furia lol
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