They have the potential to be better than the previous iteration. tuyz has a very high peak already for such a young, relatively unmolded player, and cauanzin has a higher skill ceiling than aspas IMO, which says a lot, but he's nowhere near as versatile as Sacy and is not an S-tier initiator utility-wise. But for both of them, that'll come with time

This LOUD roster could be the undisputed #1 with a mental coach, but I feel the same about C9, Liquid, NAVI, and DRX. Just a matter of time before one of them invests more heavily in that and becomes the pinnacle of VAL

Completely unrelated - what do you think TGRD's chances of making it to Champions League are? I think they are favorites for NA Challengers, and they have a bit of international experience, but getting mentally boomed seems to be their most significant gripe currently

i don't disagree that some more veteran presence would've pushed them through, but we cannot discredit the fact that FNC accomplished that after being up 2-0, choking to 2-2, and being down 11-3

Even still, that is a chink in their armor. A less experienced (no pun intended) caller will always make mistakes at some point even if they make great calls sometimes. Not saying LOUD is bad by any means - just saying they're not indefatigable like a lot of people say they are

I saw, I had edited my message already
Do you really think 7k difference is enough to incentivize individuals to try extremely hard?

1. But with Demon1, anything is possible brother
2. Agreed
3. They almost threw Fracture after saadhaak's 1v3 ace - he got hyped on adrenaline and started calling rushes every round which almost threw the match. Shows a tiny chink in their armor - if he gets revved up, he'll make abrupt calls
4. I think with more time, C9 have potential to be number 1. Playoffs was the first time they got challenged and they got mentally boomed in a few of those matches they lost

hard disagree. Chadhaak's teams have always been better than Chronicle's up until FNC. Don't think you can really call LOCK//IN a lucky win considering how mentally boomed FNC were and how much LOUD were thriving at 11-3 up. The mental resilience to make that comeback is immense - especially already being down 2-0 in the series, saying that LOUD are a far better team overall is... extrapolating, for sure.

re: 2 teams with unknown players... not really. Except for tuyz, all of the players he has played with have been top players in Brazil since aspas & friends was a thing

Either way, don't think Chronicle is the goat even though he is the most accomplished player. He is the best flex player for sure - rated top2 EMEA up until this grand final, but I'd have to argue more for Boaster or Derke being the goat.

If NRG won one pistol on each Ascent and Bind, they probably would have taken both of them, to be fair

Is there money for playoffs? I don't see it on the VLR event page I checked just now and it changed since yesterday

Also, trophy is cool and all, but all teams who made it to grand final across the 3 Champions Leagues got to Tokyo, so the match really isn't super important except for seeding, i.e. teams likely did not go ALL OUT to win it.

That being said, LOUD looked fantastic, NRG did as well. I think that every single playoffs team can win Tokyo, as can NRG, NAVI, DRX, and EDG (i.e. all on similar peak levels). Great to see the game at this level

literally every single VLR user tells you you're wrong
"muh... it's TSM!!!"
wake up

stellar is a fantastic IGL and has shown he has a high skill ceiling. i dont think stellar is the issue, frankly i just think they need to reevaluate the way they look at the game to be more structured like they were with sgares. the team worked great with will and sean - then when an inarguably more skilled player came in under the same leadership structure, they won Red Bull. then when they moved away from that structure, they've started losing.
stellar isn't the issue

this is me being nitpicky, but is disputing 60% vs 70% really worth it?
on your point about needing a better coach... OPTC literally discussed how Mikes was an incredible assistant coach, seangares and other top coaches in the scene said he did great work, and stellar has said in interviews that he has a lot more freedom as an IGL now.
their performance with sean in the team was better, right? when stellar had less freedom?
the coach is not the issue. the issue is with how the structure of the team is set up

thank you for this. this is great info to know, unfortunate for his career that he isn't willing to change his ways after already having issues historically with his attitude

you have the attitude. weirdo

yeah fnatic also werent at their best then. Also, worldwide rankings are

1. fnatic
   2-4. LOUD/DRX/C9
2. NAVI
3. NRG
   7-??. Tossup between EMEA and Americas
   Regions really are not that far off from one another my man

you're smoking

All good broski, have a good night

Each day, it seems there's yet another VLR user who, without reading the entire thread they're commenting on, fails to realize that their claim lacks coherence.

that's what im thinking too, they do have hella potential if they can get their mental in line though. feel like jake is the main weak point but he has some insane moments as is, and he's so young

what are you even trying to say here?

fnatic has
#1 initiator
#1 flex
#1 or #2 duelist
#3 IGL (after FNS and saadhak)
#2 sentinel (skillwise, not brainwise)

none of the other teams are that close

fair enough. we'll just have to see

they beat c9 week 2 of a roster with a brand new IGL while getting blown out on one map that LOUD have been picking since then. not really sure what using the same comps has to do with anything, like i said, they might have stuff cooked up, but the argument that loud won over a month ago isnt really feasible here

LOUD is likely hiding stuff for masters, but i dont think you can really say they've definitively over C9 after what they've been showing. struggling against EG, KRU, getting blown out by NRG
NAVI have some shit cooked up for sure, these Yoru comps are so troll but they're locked in so i guess we'll see how they do there. same as LOUD though - with current form, i dont think we can definitively say they're better than c9

id agree. c9 has potential but isnt internationally proven

explain. runi is performing consistently better when it comes to fragging, like i said, likely not a better IGL, but im not sure how you can claim boaster is more skilled. he has his moments, but isn't extremely consistent

i didnt make a claim about who was better you fragile donkey. fnatic would win

Assuming they beat KRU easily like they should, they'll only be second to fnatic when it comes to round differential with 3x the maps lost (+71, 3 maps vs +92, 1 map), and by a thin margin at that.
If fnatic loses to NAVI, then C9 can overtake them, but we all know that's quite unlikely.

leaf gets just under 2x as many first kills as first deaths, more assists per round than the majority of Americas' duelists, and has crazy consistency.
derke is ever so slightly behind leaf in the FK/FD department, at 1.75x as many FK as FD, a bit behind the curve when it comes to APR, but still has crazy consistency.

runi > boaster skillwise, tough to say who's a better caller.

alfajer > zellsis skillwise, but the presence/motivation zellsis brings is unparalleled

chronicle > xeppaa. man's insane

leo is clearly best init in the world, not even close. runi's got work to put in

who yall got winning?

nah, LOUD just haven't updated their Split and it's readable. they're not hiding anything on Split guaranteed

m80 fan

how does it compare to BotW? haven't read anything about it, would love the lowdown from some fellow VALORANT gremlins

in 2023 apparently

it's unfortunate you have good taste in literature for being such an odd human

where does it say benched

...why would I lie?

for those who can't see the link
https://imgur.com/S93ujKv

the regional advantage/disadvantage of pearl wasn't something i'd considered, but that's a great point. the map should be removed and reworked, honestly, B site simulator gets old quite quickly

i think Tokyo is gonna be a free win for FNC, not gonna lie. with LOUD's inconsistency, it's hard to say if they're trying new stuff or if they're just off kilter, i think it's more the latter, because tuyz and saadhak have been fragging quite poorly for a bit now which seems to open holes for teams with more consistent players to open wider. NAVI need to rein cned in a bit, he's been inting quite a bit recently, just going for hyper aggro plays, which has led to SUYGETSU not doing as well as he was last year. not necessarily crucial for their success, but that seems to be what flips NAVI between good and great - letting him get in on the action more.

C9 have a chance to beat FNC if they get a great mental coach starting now. otherwise, facing a team with better skill across the board and a great caller, better than LOUD, could just break them. but they didn't break against LOUD, so i'd be curious to see how well they do.

i haven't watched TL closely enough to say if i agree with you or not. how would you rank EMEA currently? even after yesterday I'd still go

1. FNC
2. NAVI
3. Giants
4. FUT
5. TL
6. KOI

not on this forum often enough to hold a consistent debate

regardless, this discussion is pointless. the only point I was debating was your argument that EMEA/APAC had close games between presently high and low seeds due to there being a similar level of team across the regional board. i never made a claim about LOUD - point being, context can be crucial to a conversation, but in this case, I came in to debate you solely on your perspective on EMEA/APAC, not Americas.

if we want to get into that - EMEA>Americas>APAC when it comes to team quality, Americas inconsistent as fuck (NRG and Cloud9 are on the up, LOUD is undefeated but look shaky in every win), EMEA teams are semi-consistent, but top teams seem to show greater consistency (FNC, FUT, Giants before yesterday), APAC... after this morning, I don't know what to think

then stop being so aggressive? do you think you're going to get anywhere in life by aggressively forcing your beliefs on others? it's just distasteful

since you seem like a logical mind, how do you think Americas compares to EMEA? i've watched essentially all of Americas and EMEA because my job is extremely flexible, and from what I've seen, EMEA has a better pool of team than Americas. hell, LOUD isn't even completely consistent - the only team in Americas proving themselves to be consistently improving is C9, and NRG to an extent, but that's a hot topic

FNC, FUT, Giants (except for this match), NAVI (kinda in same spot as LOUD) all look pretty solid

fair point. i would note, though, that pulling stats from one map out of a three map series is not really the best way to prove that point, though. especially when out of those three maps, he doesn't seem to have performed that horribly.

regardless, i see what you were going for now. i appreciate you clarifying

you're the hostile one brother. you're intentionally trying to bait people into arguing with you, stop being weird

no, im asking if you were trying to make the argument he was a bad player, why did you not originally just send his stats for the entire league?

didnt check

...so why did you cherry pick one map to make that argument?

literally cherry picking 1 map out of the hundreds the man has played for why he isn't good LOL

"he refuted my points with logic, and I don't have the intelligence to refute his, so I'm going to ad hoc him and 'win'. got him"

close? it would probably be 2-0, or potentially 2-1 with stomps on split and haven considering how close it is. trent is also switched onto tex's role, net onto trent's, so they're essentially bringing it this close while having a partially different set of roles

and I quote: "Americas other than LOUD is weak"

that is a similar claim but not the same as "LOUD is trying some stuff", so don't try to backtrack on your original claim

i also never claimed anything about LOUD or other Americas teams. I was disputing your points about EMEA/APAC. don't put words in my mouth

all the LOUD stans malding in the twitter dms...

that's when KOI weren't trolling and NAVI were trolling

FNC had a sub, + BBL is good people just don't realize

DRX haven't been as consistently good since adding in Foxy9, and both GE and RRQ have had meteoric rises in form

your arguments are fundamentally flawed brother