OH NO NO NO LMAO.
But actually, if Gen G beats sen 2-0 or 2-1 here they're probably better than fnatic (iceland peak) UNLESS Sen make a lower bracket comeback and then roll Gen G.
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Gen G >> Fnatic
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If that is so, then why can't we say that sentinels are the ones who have gotten worse?
And that maps argument is so dumb, soniqs got one map off sentinels but got smashed in the other two, fnatic vs sentinels every map was extremely close, it's obvious that fnatic and sentinels are more evenly matched u don't need maps to prove it.
Of course its possible that they got worse, but we dont know that because we havent seen their LB run yet. We know that Sentinels always come in clutch in the LB, but we have to wait and see. If they do bad in LB and flop, then we can make the conclusion they've gotten worse. The soniqs example isnt really valid, as that was sentinels' first tourney match in months, and almost every team lost a map as well. Soniqs isnt a tier 1 team either, and sen probably didnt practise enough/ was rusty. If you wanna use a valid example, use one from actual tier 1 tourneys like challengers/playoffs. But oh wait, NA teams took maps off sen in playoffs as well. other top NA teams could've beaten fnatic at iceland, like Envy, 100T and C9.
huh? what does yoru have to do with anything? he's a viable pick on bind tbh, and sentinels are showing that. They've just changed their comp.
"also im sure SEN prepared a lot for fnatic over their month break, given that they were guaranteed to play fnatic as long as they beat KRU"
not necessarily, this is an unproven assumption. they probably did a bit of prep on every team because they had no way of knowing what teams were the best before the matches actually happened.
Obviously not 1 to 1, but it definitely exists on some degree logically speaking. It's just logical, and 99% likely, obviously not factual, because we will never know who would win, anything could happen, but we're talking about how likely certain things are.
Example, if envy beats 100T tomorrow then its 99% likely they would've beat V1 as well.
If you wanna talk then at least use proper examples bro lmao. That SRN example is not valid at all because its open qualifiers. Everyone loses maps, and you dont got footage on the teams.
Losing maps and series against tier 1 teams that you can prepare for and that prepare for you however, is obviously the real discussion to be had.
Your logic is really disingenuous tbh
And how is this map loss against GenG any more valid? If you wanna talk about preparation, NA teams have significantly more practice and generally play a lot more against SEN so obviously Fnatic who could only watch outdated vods of SEN and only had 2 weeks of prep for iceland will not do as well against SEN compared to SEN's domestic rivals. Plus, I'd probably say that SEN rn does not look as good as they did in iceland, but obv thats just based off the eye test and subjectivity
Because Gen G took down a top 8 NA team (andbox) ? and gen g are definitely a solid team now? Also, "NA teams have significantly more practice and generally play a lot more against SEN so obviously Fnatic who could only watch outdated vods of SEN and only had 2 weeks of prep for iceland will not do as well against SEN compared to SEN's domestic rivals"
this is not a valid argument at all lmao. all the teams at iceland had equal chances to play sen exclusively if they wanted to, even more than NA. scrimbux dont matter either way. EU had the same preparation options as NA, that isnt an argument at all.
NA takes maps off Sen because they're just a better region, and more competitive, but its extremely close between EU and NA.
"this is not a valid argument at all lmao. all the teams at iceland had equal chances to play sen exclusively if they wanted to, even more than NA. scrimbux dont matter either way. EU had the same preparation options as NA, that isnt an argument at all."
oh my god you just missed my entire point, im not trying to excuse fnatics loss, im saying the reason NA generally is more competitive with SEN compared to how the international scene did against them is due to NA having significantly more practice against SEN than the teams at iceland did. GenG has probably scrimmed and played against SEN SIGNIFICANTLY more than Fnatic, so no shit theyd be able to take a map at some point. I'm not trying to discredit GenG, cuz they played very well, but saying "oh well this team in NA took who has played and probably scrimmed against SEN several times more than fnatic took a map against SEN and fnatic couldnt, so obviously GenG is better than fnatic" is just stupid
"h my god you just missed my entire point, im not trying to excuse fnatics loss, im saying the reason NA generally is more competitive with SEN compared to how the international scene did against them is due to NA having significantly more practice against SEN than the teams at iceland did."
no, thats exactly the 'point' im debunking here.. It doesnt matter that NA teams play more, it literally doesnt. you act as if they play 24/7, no, they dont. Scrimbux dont matter either. They're just better teams than EU mostly, but again, its very close between the regions. Theres no excuse for Fnatic not even being able to take a map off them lmao. They had the same amount of time to prepare as any other NA team would, and even more tbh. Literally 2 weeks.
"GenG has probably scrimmed and played against SEN SIGNIFICANTLY more than Fnatic, so no shit theyd be able to take a map at some point."
Unproven, and either way, both have same prep possibilities. Fnatic probably had more tbh, 2 weeks in iceland compared to 4 days in NA finding out the bracket. Scrims dont matter once again. You cant just say 'no shit they'd take a map', no, taking a map is significant and it shows that the teams are in close contention. FNC not taking a map just shows they're much worse off.
it doesnt matter that NA teams have played significantly more matches against SEN????? This is just stupid. More time playing against SEN= more tendencies to pick up on, easier to pick up on trends, better grasp of their defaults/strats, etc.
"Unproven, and either way, both have same prep possibilities. Fnatic probably had more tbh, 2 weeks in iceland compared to 4 days in NA finding out the bracket. Scrims dont matter once again."
Unproven yet still likely. And the results of scrims may not matter, but what you find in those scrims and what tendencies you pick up from scrimming DOES matter. Just please don't speak again, even shahz and the players on SEN themselves don't agree with you.
yeah, it doesnt matter at all, because both have same prep possibilities. Its not likely, either bro. You can find many tendencies and info from VODs, once again. 100T doesnt even scrim against sen lmao and took a map and was 2 rounds away from 2-0ing them. I couldnt care less what the sen players say, they're biased towards themselves and its obvious. It doesnt work like "Pro Opinion = 100% fact Instantly and you cannot question it" thats just not how it works.
You keep saying "it doesnt matter that theyve played more matches because they have the same prep possibilities" yet past matches themselves are prep possibilities. do you think that fnatic had the same prep possibilities in the grand finals as they did when they first faced SEN? of course not, not only did they have an extra vod, but they also had a lot of stuff they learned in the game while it was playing out, which is something NA teams have significantly more of. Just stop it bro
Nah, past matches are not prep possibilities because teams evolve and adapt their strats and tendencies. Unless it was like literally a few days ago then it doesnt count. Fnatic had even more prep possibilities in the grand finals, probably more than any other NA team, because more vods, more tendencies, yet still couldnt take a map. This alone disproves your argument of 'scrimming and playing matches'.
I mean most top tier NA teams are probably better than fnatic either way because they're trash rn and not as good as they were during iceland. But even fnatic at their iceland peak would lose to some NA teams bc the NA teams took maps off sentinels right before they went to iceland while FNC couldnt.
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