T1 | VLR.gg

#16

Vortexy

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LEC is dogwater compared to Chinese and Korean teams, winning it isn't even anything special, yet Rogue haven't even won it once. A random group of Korean solo queuers could win the league with a little bit of practice.

"it's not like sponsors are going to be less attracted to them due to their trash valorant team"
uhh, news flash, they will 100% be less attracted to sponsor a team/org who is pumping huge money into a team which loses in tier 2-3 tourneys with only triple digit viewership

"they only have room to grow"
so does literally every other team, and so far, almost every other team seems to be growing faster than them

"most fans... are only supporting one of the teams in the org"
Another reason why T1 roster sucks and they should disband to Korea. They have no big name in their roster. Steel? Almost a forgotten name by now. Sorry if you like him but it's the truth.

#17

fracra

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ik you're pretty bias in growing the val scene in KR but esport orgs are looking to spread their brand in the international scene. I never said I agree in fielding that team, but instead i see t1's objective. i'm not a fan of steel, if anything i sorta dislike him. The right way to put it is that most sponsors of t1 are mainly targetting their huge fanbase in league and any other esport team in a plus. I'm sure t1 see's the vision of the potential fanbase they could receive in na, such as the guard and trent's hype train from becoming an unknown tier2 team to representing NA in a lan. I am not against you nor am i against t1 relocating to korea, if anything i think it's good for the region, it's just that the org has other interests.

#18

Vortexy

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obviously I'm bias :) I'm half Korean

The org's interests are winning and making money. To do that it would be logical to relocate to Korea. They'll be far more likely to succeed there and will have more viewers since they have almost none rn (both will contribute greatly to more sponsorship deals) and will be saving money in terms of paying players less and not having to function overseas. At this point, I think it's almost impossible that T1 build a roster that will go to an international LAN one day.

Every concern you're mentioning of would be fixed/greatly improved if they moved to Korea.

#19

fracra

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I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say, winning and making money is obviously the end objective, the POTENTIAL viewers and fanbase in NA will be greater than what can be achieved in korea. I know you don't like to hear it but, drx a crazy team full of stars and a team that could potentially win masters, isn't getting a huge loyal following like an NA team, the guard or optic is. Sure in the short term fielding a team in korea would earn them a decent following from koreans, but the fanbase isn't as big as it is in league. I agree that this roster and the moves the management is making aren't going to reach tier 1 val, which is a problem of it's own. With an org as big as t1, i doubt they would wanna try to grow the kr valorant scene (whether you like it or not an org has it's own personal interests) until it gets 2+ slots, and riot being incompetent may not even give it due to the lower viewership compared to other regions.

#21

Vortexy

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They will get 2 spots if Drx performs well and/or more orgs like T1 invest.

The flaw in your argument here is the word "potential".
AS OF NOW, moving to Korea will give them more viewers than the few hundred they have right now, more fans, more sponsorship because of the aforementioned reasons, and they are tenfold more likely to qualify to international events which is where the big views are and where sponsors want their name to be seen, not small third party tier 3 tourneys.

The problem in your reasoning is that you're basing everything off POTENTIALs that I in no way see happening. I hope I'm wrong but I seriously doubt T1 will build an NA team that can go to LAN in the near or even distant future.

#23

fracra

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aren't you also basing things off potential as well? who knows if t1 management fucks up in valorant and picks up washed players or unproved players. If they're this incompetent in picking up good players in NA I don't see them picking up good players in KR as well. I think you're basing their fanbase and viewership in these third party tourneys, and the reason they don't get views is because they don't matter at all. I would assume the same for korean teams playing in their own tourneys, maybe even less. Hell it's also not even a guarantee drx will reach a good placing in playoffs, and even if t1 invests riot might not give a damn and not give kr 2 slots, (unless all regions like latam, br, jp gets 2 like in berlin) by now it's pretty obvious riot is very unfavorable in giving fair slots for lans thus it's not a guarantee kr will get 2 slots. What could be said instead is as of now t1 should be picking up good and proven pros, which would blow the fanbase in kr out of the water. Like I said i'm not against t1 moving to kr and i think it would be great, but t1's business decisions in staying in NA are clear.

#28

Vortexy

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fraca - "the reason they don't get views is because they don't matter at all"
also fraca - "viewership is a big factor" and "the POTENTIAL viewers and fanbase in NA will be greater than what can be achieved in korea"

k....? Ignoring the fact that you literally said viewership matters, you've been milking this 'more potential viewers and fans in NA than Korea' logic, but now you're saying the amount of views and therefore fanbase is irrelevant?

No I'm not going off potential. Literally every game of VCT Korea gets more views than T1 participating in tier three third party tourneys. The numbers alone practically prove that T1 would get more views if they participate in KR VCT. I can literally name a bunch of top tier players like Munchkin and many more who you could easily form a top tier team out of with their money and reputation which would AT LEAST be able to participate in VCT. Even if they don't win, you've already got more viewership than T1's current viewership rate.

T1 is not even going to be able to participate in tournaments where they can get more viewers. These small tier three third party tourneys are the best they can participate in. They couldn't get out of open qualifier 1, they lost even more miserably in open qualifier 2, they couldn't even qualify for the group stage and it wasn't even a close miss either. They had to perform well in the group stage they failed at making to THEN move on to the main event.
They are so far away from reaching the level where the views actually are.

#29

fracra

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yes these tourneys are for practice and they don't really matter but I think you forgot about the NA VCT, that racks in way more viewership, and yes those open qualifiers get quite a bit, and also that tourney was happening while zeta and fnatic was happening so that could explain the 3 digit viewership (i think?). That first paragraph is so out of context and just makes me look dumb, i said "viewership is a big factor in determining the slots" which has nothing to do with the team viewership itself, and the second one, it's just true that the potential viewership in NA is greater. That is also if t1 makes it far, but that current roster isn't my point, I was clear that i've criticized t1 management and their picking of players and paying them a lot. And before you hit me with another "iF thEy mOvE to kOrEa tHeY wiLl gEt gUaRaNTees aNd mOrE viEwERs", t1 is obviously eyeing big and short term results are probably not what they're trying to achieve, and theres nothing wrong with expanding to NA, just contracting unproven players may not be the move. In which, sure moving to korea would be way better if they are just gonna shit the bed in every na vct. Like i said before each org has their own motives such as expanding, similar to gen.g, which idk why you're not criticizing, but if 2 household gaming orgs of korea are doing it then surely they have a similar logical goal right? Theres obviously both benefits and drawbacks in staying in NA and moving to KR and t1 just decides to stay in NA. This might be my last post debating with you cuz this is getting quite repetitive, so please don't type something triggering to me that will make me respond, and also i can't wait for the prx drx matchup :D

#30

Vortexy

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"you forgot about the NA VCT, that racks in way more viewership"

Holy crap you're banging your head against a wall. I'm repeatedly telling you that T1 does not even have the skill to qualify to VCT or major events where the real views are. They lose to tier 3 teams in 3rd party tournaments with barely any viewers. They are nowhere close to qualifying to an event with actual views.

"zeta and fnatic was happening so that could explain the 3 digit viewership"

No the viewership was practically the same. As you said yourself earlier I think, many viewers follow individual players which my explain the stagnant viewership rates there, even if there is another major even going on.

"contracting unproven players may not be the move"

There are many free agents and unsigned talents that have proven themselves at international events and abroad. I can name some if you want me to.
On the contrary, T1 are contracting unproven players in NA. Besides maybe steel, none of them have success in Valorant.

gl to prx

#36

fracra

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hhhhh here we go again
Let me make my main point clear since you are just constantly ignoring it, T1 is expanding in NA to gain exposure internationally and attract international sponsors and fanbase. These potentials is what led to t1 and gen.g to do this, and i'm sure they're goal is to reach na vct, which i make my point VERY clear is that i don't agree in the players t1 are contracting, which results in t1 playing these 3rd party tourneys and failing to reach vct, with their money and mangement they could easily contract some pro that have proven themself to have potential.

"On the contrary, T1 are contracting unproven players in NA." ???? yes this is literally the point i am trying to make. Yes, you can mention a lot of FAs and unsigned talent but if you see how incompetent t1 is in picking players, don't you question how they might just ignore those talents and pick up unproven players? Just basing it logically.

T1 is actively seeking fanbase and sponsorships from around the world, instead of only being limited in Korea. In a business point of view, this makes sense for sponsors in many different sectors to hop on t1 due to the diversity of where the teams of t1 hold influence in around the world.

"As you said yourself earlier I think, many viewers follow individual players which my explain the stagnant viewership rates there" I never said this? and if a literal vct masters event is happening during that time people would most definitely watch the masters event instead of the 3rd party event which doesn't mean shit, even regardless of your favorite player wardell or curry is playing in it.
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I have continually clowned t1 and it's management for their NA val team, absolutely questionable additions and even stranger activities, signing a jett player just for them to play smokes???? like what???

I have nothing against t1 going back to korea, i would instead support it as it grows the region and talent pool. It's t1 as a business choosing otherwise and building international fanbases, such as them having the SEA dota 2 team, or gen.g having an na cs team back in 2020.

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