It's just a placebo effect. It is all in the brain. Although you may argue that not being first seed gives you greater confidence and momentum, who said the first seeds can't either?
It's all in the mental.
I'm open to discussion about this.
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1st seed curse is not real.
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I mean you have less actual game time so there is certainly some downside
I don't see how you could argue otherwise
Testing a strat in scrims is not the same as getting to try it on stage
I did not think about that.
Oops.
Anyways, you can make that up through antistrats, since you'll probably have quite a bit on the team you'll be playing against.
not really. the qualified teams get 1 less day than the 1st seed teams to prepare. that's all there is to it.
actual experience in the arena >>>>> 1 more day of anti-stratting
However, the 1st seed teams will not be as fatigued as the swiss stage teams. However, this is an assumption that swiss stage teams would be fatigued after those matches.
Mmmm. was it 3 days break between swiss and playoffs? i feel like that's already enough to remove mental fatigue and prep.
it just feels like u really want to be the second seed to get even a hint of trial in the matches
There was only a one-day break between the end of swiss (and finding out the matchups) and the matches today. But I still agree you shouldn't be that fatigued playing 2-3 b03s, if anything I think the players would be more excited. Realistically this is what they all dream about and play for, they want to play important international matches on stage, so making playoffs is an energy boost if anything.
ah mb i counted today and the day the first elimination round ended. tho yeah i agree with what u said here
Yes, it might just be me, I have a warped perspective of internationals due to the constant stress of being a Liquid fan, every match with Liquid feels like a struggle and an exhausting series for me.
I would say they are probably more excited and hotter than fatigued after winning, and then also getting a small break in between swiss and playoffs.
Not a curse. It depends on the first seed and the matchup. I think Fur is an example of a team that has a high chance of losing against prx first seed or no.
7/8 first seeds have lost in 12 team master events. I think realistically its probably about even between first seed vs swiss stage qualifiers advantage wise, but history shows that at least in the first round of playoffs they tend to lose.
Ya I agree, realistically it should probably be an advantage, and I think it is dumb in the past when coaches or players from first seed teams have complained because at worst its an even playing field. But I do think that the very first match especially is not as big of an advantage for them, especially when they don't always get a good choice on who they get to play considering the first seed from a region is not always their strongest.
Yes, maybe riot could setup some showmatches between 1st seeds to help decrease the disadvantage of not playing at all for 2 or even 3 weeks.
However, it all really depends on the team, some do really well on their own, but others need some experience.
Absolutely. It doesn't make sense to me how vlr treats a lack of prep time as a horrible disadvantage, and then acts like it's negligible to have an abundance of it plus an absolute footage diff for anti-stratting
The real reason 1st seeds have historically underperformed is bc they were regional farmers who got complacent.
In Santiago, those farmers got grouped, and it's tryhard underdog teams who got 1st that will use every advantage they have
Ehh, a lot of times it's just the first round that the first seed teams are struggling, and you will see a couple of them make lower bracket runs later in playoffs. I think it's just that for one, Valorant is a game that matchups are super important and so when these teams are playing a new team playing a different style from another region, especially coming off of 2 wins and feeling hot, it is hard to perform well after not playing for like a month.
In both Shanghai and Toronto, half of the first seeds bombed out 0/2, which is the literal max since it would be first seeds beating first seeds.
The only one that really went on a run after losing first was Toronto FNC, and tbh they got unlucky with picking last and getting geng
Ya it is inevitable that 2 will bomb out if they all lose first round. 100t made top four at shanghai which is still a decent run (bigger arena) but like I said in another response on here I think it is also due to the strongest teams not always being first seed in the region. Also, like I said above I honestly think most of it comes down to individual matchups in playstyle and map pool being the biggest determining factor at least in a majority of the good teams in playoffs.
I think it is also due to the strongest teams not always being first seed in the region
Yeah that's what I'm saying too. I don't think being 1st seed has an inherent disadvantage, rather it's an issue with the specific teams that tend to get 1st in their region
The other thing is that kickoff and masters really is a marathon with some short breaks, not a sprint, so some teams in kickoff give their all, which exposes them to stuff like antistrats and etc.
This means that many of these 1st seed teams are these said teams.
Its common even in traditional sports for teams with byes to come out cold compared to teams that have been in grind mode
Yes, but theoretically this is all in the mental, they're subconsciously expecting to lose given the circumstances.
it's more because swiss stage teams got the warm-up they needed while seed 1 hasn't feel the stage yet, especially if they are new on the international BBL, NS, and AG
But this assumes that all teams need some actual matches for experience.
What if some dont?
what is "some" in this scenario? As in team that already have international experiences or team that can capitalize on the advantages given to them
I do not know myself, but it could indeed be a team that alr has international experience and one that has a strong mental.
yeah then it's kinda on those teams for losing with the advantages given. I get first match jitters but teams with experiences shouldn't be easily affected by that
Ye, it's all in the vibes, like TL crushed T1, but then gave up to M8s and NRG without a fight
Why I do feel like i'm a succubus invoked by a ritual ?...
We need a statistical analysis on that, evidence... proof... But first, when we talk about first seed curse we only talk about 12 team masters, because if they are a curse for 1st seed it's pronbably only because a team that just start a tournament is just cold while the seed 2 and 3, have already 2 wins and are ready to win. They are no reason we have a first seed curse in a 16 team or a 8 team tournament.
Lets see tournament per tournament the result of 1str seed :
- 2025 : 0-4
- 2024 : 1-3
- 2023 : 3-1
- 2022 : 2-2
- 2022 : 2-2
2022-2023 ERA was pretty normal, slightly above 50% is what we should have. But damn... 2024-2025 this is... I do think this year is the turning point. If seed 1 - 3-1 : 2024/2025 was unlucky
- 2-2 : It's probably okay
- 1-3 : Well, the trend continues and it's conclusive.
What did change between 2023 and 2024 ? In 2023 and before, a team arrive at an international event after playing a full split, in 2024 and beyond, most seed 1 qualify to this event after playing like 4 series, thats not enough game to be ready to play a final 8 against a team that already played 2 or 3 games in this exact tournament, had time to test themself against weakest team, but already have like 10 series to be prepare and improve.
Thats another reason why I dont really like the format, I dont think we are helping seed 1 by giving 3 round of bye.
Yes
The problem is that a lot of the 1st seed teams are usually newer teams, that treat kickoff as a way to go all out, when in reality it is a sprint, which is why a lot of them lose as soon as they play in the playoffs, due to lack of experience and etc.
It's also that first seed played 4 games while the other have already 10 games. It's less true for 2024 and 2025, so I still think it's a question of : When you played 3 games, you already know the scene and it's an advantage
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