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phoenix rework
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Quoting and expanding my reply from another thread:
They could make it so the wall has no equip time, easier to curve, and lasts longer.
His molly and wall could add a burn efect, that keeps the player on fire and deals a low amount of damage for a few seconds (something like 20 damage, to punish people for crossing his wall and molly).
His ult could last longer or make it so he recovers a little bit of ult time per kill (2 sec time recovery per kill seems balanced, idk about healing per kills bc he regenerates back to 100 when the ult ends).
And yeah his flashes are decent, but I gotta be honest, they do not even compare to Yoru and Reyna flashes in terms of utility. Maybe speeding up the use animation (not the flashes' activation time, but Phoenix's hand model), so it's easier to play off your popflashes.
make wall do more damage when u run thru it, similar to viper decay effect. also increase length of the wall to make it similar to vipers as well, its too short
make curveballs last longer when flashed and make them quicker cause they are too easy to dodge
molly should have unlimited range
ult should be cancelable at any time to promote smarter usage of ult and maybe make it last longer
Dolphin [#3]Molly recharges for every kill
Give wall and molly the ability to heal phoenix to 100 by themselves
Slightly buff flashTHoughts?
"Give wall and molly the ability to heal phoenix to 100 by themselves" not good idea
chimpy [#10]What about making his ult 1 less charge/ ult point
just make it 1 ult point at this point
Phoenix is just not possible to keep up to duelist standards unless his whole kit gets a serious buff and change, he’s a duelist and rn every duelist has such good entry power while phoenix has basically nothing that can beat Reyna and jett and raze, he doesn’t have a get out of jail free card like Reyna and jett and doesn’t have satchels that create so much space
FERETON [#8]Quoting and expanding my reply from another thread:
They could make it so the wall has no equip time, easier to curve, and lasts longer.
His molly and wall could add a burn efect, that keeps the player on fire and deals a low amount of damage for a few seconds (something like 20 damage, to punish people for crossing his wall and molly).
His ult could last longer or make it so he recovers a little bit of ult time per kill (2 sec time recovery per kill seems balanced, idk about healing per kills bc he regenerates back to 100 when the ult ends).
And yeah his flashes are decent, but I gotta be honest, they do not even compare to Yoru and Reyna flashes in terms of utility. Maybe speeding up the use animation (not the flashes' activation time, but Phoenix's hand model), so it's easier to play off your popflashes.
i think making all his abilities not have an equip time is a good change.
KssS [#16]i think making all his abilities not have an equip time is a good change.
I don't think that the flash and molly need that kind of buff, bc they have different use options/animations (flashes' got left and right throws, molly's got long and short range), but the wall only goes foward, no other option other than curving it. The best they can do about it is reduce the equip animation for the molly. I think that they've got to remove the wall's equip time, and maybe adding a new throwing option for the flashes, like a foward long range Kayo kind of flash, no gravity so it just goes in 1 direction, and maybe bounces and stops when it collides with a wall, like his actual flash does. Also it's a good idea to give him more healing from his molly and wall, since he's got no movement ability it's a good idea to give him a way to recover from a gunfight. It's definitely a more passive approach to a duelist, but it's the only way to make him playable.
If Riot adds everything that I've said they could save Phoenix, as he doesn't need a lot of buffs to be a better agent, he needs BETTER MECHANICS.
And no. Long range flashes would not make him exactly like Kayo, there's different ways to implement new mechanics to basic agents. All of this could save Phoenix from being useless and eventually, unplayable.
Delusional_Mitch_Fan [#15]Phoenix is just not possible to keep up to duelist standards unless his whole kit gets a serious buff and change, he’s a duelist and rn every duelist has such good entry power while phoenix has basically nothing that can beat Reyna and jett and raze, he doesn’t have a get out of jail free card like Reyna and jett and doesn’t have satchels that create so much space
If iam being honest skye is better duelist than phoenix.
DDenied [#2]give his molly a burn effect and increase damage and healing make wall last longer and increase healing
How would that make him get more played above Raze, Skye, Kayo (& Reyna)? The main thing he lacks compared to them is getting info - roomba, bird, knife
Mbappe [#26]How would that make him get more played above Raze, Skye, Kayo (& Reyna)? The main thing he lacks compared to them is getting info - roomba, bird, knife
The thing is you're comparing Phoenix with initiators, and there's no point of comparison between him and Raze, since she's a primary duelist alongside Jett and shortly, Neon. It would be fair if you compare him with Reyna and Yoru, wich are secondary duelists.
FERETON [#28]The thing is you're comparing Phoenix with initiators, and there's no point of comparison between him and Raze, since she's a primary duelist alongside Jett and shortly, Neon. It would be fair if you compare him with Reyna and Yoru, wich are secondary duelists.
I am comparing phoenix to the agents he lost his space in pro comps to, there is all the point of comparing them because they are the reason phoenix fell out of the meta
Mbappe [#31]I am comparing phoenix to the agents he lost his space in pro comps to, there is all the point of comparing them because they are the reason phoenix fell out of the meta
But there's no need for him to come back in the same spaces, and pro comps are different to ranked comps in a few ways, so with a rework there's the possibility that he takes positions he could never have covered before.
i_come_from_hltv [#13]maybe make his ult like suicide bomb after time runs out? yes im idiot
make it drop a molly when his ult dies?
FERETON [#32]But there's no need for him to come back in the same spaces, and pro comps are different to ranked comps in a few ways, so with a rework there's the possibility that he takes positions he could never have covered before.
Wouldn't mind them turning him in to a smoker. Riot talked about having two classes with wall smokers and dome smokers. Phoenix could me a more agro version of Viper. But i don't know if changing agents category is a thing they want
DELUSIONAL_LAKIA_FAN [#9]make wall do more damage when u run thru it, similar to viper decay effect. also increase length of the wall to make it similar to vipers as well, its too short
make curveballs last longer when flashed and make them quicker cause they are too easy to dodge
molly should have unlimited range
ult should be cancelable at any time to promote smarter usage of ult and maybe make it last longer
"molly should have unlimited range"
lmao mans just yeeting a ball of flame hundreds of metres on breeze
Mbappe [#34]Wouldn't mind them turning him in to a smoker. Riot talked about having two classes with wall smokers and dome smokers. Phoenix could me a more agro version of Viper. But i don't know if changing agents category is a thing they want
Nah there's no way they make him a smoke duelist, it's not effective at all only having 1 wall, and if his single wall is not even used imagine having 2 and not even using them for 5 rounds in a row. With the changes I proposed in my reply down below (#8, #17) I see him almost as a Raze/Reyna mix kind of role (a Yoru-like secondary duelist with vision/push denial abilities like Reyna and Raze have).
It's impossible for him to be even close to Viper only with a 7 sec wall, and Riot wouldn't make him a controller type duelist (i hope so).
FERETON [#36]Nah there's no way they make him a smoke duelist, it's not effective at all only having 1 wall, and if his single wall is not even used imagine having 2 and not even using them for 5 rounds in a row. With the changes I proposed in my reply down below (#8, #17) I see him almost as a Raze/Reyna mix kind of role (a Yoru-like secondary duelist with vision/push denial abilities like Reyna and Raze have).
It's impossible for him to be even close to Viper only with a 7 sec wall, and Riot wouldn't make him a controller type duelist (i hope so).
You know they can change the duration of a wall smoke and add new util if needed for a category change right. Thats like the point of this thread. They can increase his wall smoke time (with the healing still active), give him some orb smoke instead of the molly (because thats not useful for a aggro smoker) and keep the peek flash so he can still take 1v1 duels and maybe increase the Ult time
Mbappe [#37]You know they can change the duration of a wall smoke and add new util if needed for a category change right. Thats like the point of this thread. They can increase his wall smoke time (with the healing still active), give him some orb smoke instead of the molly (because thats not useful for a aggro smoker) and keep the peek flash so he can still take 1v1 duels and maybe increase the Ult time
But increasing the duration of his wall will not make him a smoke duelist, and they're not changing a complete ability like the molly for a smoke orb. Riot always tries to keep the abilities of their agents the same, they just change some stats or mechanics, not creating completely new abilities for an agent. Giving Phoenix a new ability means tanking it from a future agent. Keeping the peek flash is not a bad idea but it's also a reason why he's so unusable comparing him to e.g: a Yoru flash.
The objective is not to change his abilities for new ones or just buff them with damage, healing and durations, it's to make them better by adding new mechanics.
give a burn effect on both molly and wall. create a passive that when he gets 2 kills, his bullets deal burn damage for a certain duration. and maybe make some changes to his abilities like shorter pullout time and longer durations/size. also you could make it that during his ult, his bullets deal burn damage but it may be kinda op so you may have to tweak ult duration
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