Besides champs, edg were a very poor team in terms of results before that. If you are basing the list off recency, then in no world does he deserve a spot over jawg and buzz like you claim he does. If you're basing the list off all time, then he doesn't deserve a spot over them even more so.
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KangKang
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All time, I would say he definitely deserves a spot over buzz. You're telling me EDG wasn't doing that great last year without champs but what has Buzz won on his teams like ever? Even if he does win this masters, that's still doesn't equate to winning Champs like at all. And KK has been performing good ever since he's arrived on the international scene just like Buzz has (although Buzz has been doing it for longer) so idk how there's no world where buzz is below KK on the all time list. If anything, if you want to include team accolades like you said you do, there's no world Buzz is above KK. With Jawg, honestly maybe. Both have champs, both have played well internationally, and both have been recently been playing kinda mid. I think it's debatable and there is defintiely not "no world" where KK isn't above Jawg lol.
You are clearly being biased. There is no clear player ahead unless you include accolades, which you want to do. Then there is a clear player ahead and it's KK. What has buzz won? Even if he wins this masters, that's not equal to a champs at all. I like Buzz, but he has not proved himself to be a top 5 duelist of all time.
When I mentioned recent performances, you were talking about how EDG was performing poorly last year besides champs. So you're clearly implying it does impact an individual's personal standing to an extent, which, I actually agree with. I think winning like one or two masters (preferably two) or a champs is needed to stand a chance with the other top dogs. Also, believe it or not, I'm not really that big of a fan of KK. I just don't like it when people take a recent performance of a player as a chance to say he's worse than he actually is.
If anything, I'm an Aspas glazer and I think that KK was the better duelist in Champs.
That is quite an incredible stretch, you're grasping at straws that I said anything about accolades. I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't put words in my mouth. Nevertheless, comparing the global kill leader, one of the most consistent of all time, making quality runs almost every single time, the currently better player to kk who was on one of the worst performing teams before one good run at champs, is laughable. The obsession with even considering this as debatable is very strange ngl.
All I'm saying is that Buzz has never produced winning results while KK has and I think that's quite important. Most of what you are listing involves longetivity and I think that's like the only thing he's got over KK. And it's not like EDG has never been competitive before lol. If you are looking at all time, then Kangkang has been performing well since he's been on the international stage and they were competitive in 2023 Masters as well. The Champs run, in my opinion, pushes him over Buzz on the all time list. You trying to make it seem like it isn't even close is what is strange imo.
The fact is, only to a kk fan like you is it close. Again, you've been putting words in my mouth and just straight up lying.
You just said considering longevity, he has it over kk. You also said "if you are putting buzz above KK, then the list is clearly based on recency bias." Do you see the problem here?
You've literally admitted buzz over kk, both longevity and recently. It's wild how you're defending such a false belief, yet you fumble over your own words and literally straight up admit he's better both ways. Like surely you can't argue your way out of this? You literally just admitted both longevity and recently buzz is better.
Bro you literally said it was strange I consider it to be close between KK and Buzz what words am I putting in your mouth? And you know what's funny, the fact that I said I didn't like KK that much and you're calling me a KK fan. Like aren't you literally putting words in my mouth?
I'm not fumbling around my words, longetivity and recent performances aren't even close to the only factors in determining how good a player is all time lol. He only has longetivity because he's been playing longer, not because he's been playing better. KangKang ever since he's joined the international scene has been playing better overall compared to Buzz. Not only that, Kangkang has a much higher peak than Buzz who hasn't won shit. That is what pushes KangKang over Buzz imo.
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