I’ll be honest, I’m pleasantly surprised by how good they’re looking — I expected them to go out super early in kickoff and not be that good, but I was wrong. Anyways, sorry for going on a tangent, but I can’t help but feel that Vitality should look into potentially getting an Assistant coach to help Faded out? Faded has also honestly surpassed my expectations as a coach, and I can really see the vision behind some of these comps, but I think they need an assistant coach or an analyst to help him out because that is just too much burden, lol.
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Toph_ [#2]Why would you ever think that? Derke, Regional Sayf, and Less, just shooting them alone would get them relatively far in kickoff.
NRG 2024, who honestly did well at kickoffs, still absolutely scarred me as a fan of that team. That team really showed me that you can’t win off of firepower alone, you know?
Neuronium [#3]NRG 2024, who honestly did well at kickoffs, still absolutely scarred me as a fan of that team. That team really showed me that you can’t win off of firepower alone, you know?
NRG were cooked at fire power demon1 sucks vector crashies knocked out so there's no similiar aspects to VIT
Vitality needs time and needs to bring good IGL+why not redgar) and put sayf at smokes and bench kicks
Toph_ [#2]Why would you ever think that? Derke, Regional Sayf, and Less, just shooting them alone would get them relatively far in kickoff.
Have you seen these kind of super teams play before? Their is like a 60% chance that they just suck, don't mesh, all look worse, and disappoint everyone.
OCARINA [#5]NRG were cooked at fire power demon1 sucks vector crashies knocked out so there's no similiar aspects to VIT
Vitality needs time and needs to bring good IGL+why not redgar) and put sayf at smokes and bench kicks
Damn, that is one of the most absurd statements I have ever read. A peak demon1, the best support player in the world at the time, a really talented core of 3 super successful valorant players, all performing well at the time, and that isn’t a super team? 2024 NRG was the definition of a failed super team. It’s obvious that that lineup was built to contend for championships.
Neuronium [#3]NRG 2024, who honestly did well at kickoffs, still absolutely scarred me as a fan of that team. That team really showed me that you can’t win off of firepower alone, you know?
Yeah, idk what you all were seeing to begin with… crashies was good at the role, sure firepower? No. I'm probably victors biggest hater, he's NOT that good and incredibly overrated. Ethan was good not enough to carry a game just by fragging though, again just really good at his role. Demon1's performance is barely his fault, they just kept forcing him into roles he doesn't belong on. And marved was fine, but again not nearly enough to carry in fragging alone.
Toph_ [#8]Yeah, idk what you all were seeing to begin with… crashies was good at the role, sure firepower? No. I'm probably victors biggest hater, he's NOT that good and incredibly overrated. Ethan was good not enough to carry a game just by fragging though, again just really good at his role. Demon1's performance is barely his fault, they just kept forcing him into roles he doesn't belong on. And marved was fine, but again not nearly enough to carry in fragging alone.
Now what can I even say to this lol. Such a hindsight comment.
zetydy [#6]Have you seen these kind of super teams play before? Their is like a 60% chance that they just suck, don't mesh, all look worse, and disappoint everyone.
What are “these kinds of super teams”? Vitality and T1 imo are the first proper super teams.
Toph_ [#10]What are “these kinds of super teams”? Vitality and T1 imo are the first proper super teams.
That’s insane. 2023 FNATIC was a super team. Literally everyone was calling it that.
Side note: the only successful super-team, too
Neuronium [#9]Now what can I even say to this lol. Such a hindsight comment.
Nothing is hindsight about Victor and Crashies being stupidly overrated. Victor has NEVER in his career been at the level to make up a super team. Sure, demon1 player random roles and Ethan igling is hindsight. But those are just STUPID decisions. If sayf was playing duelist AND igling whilst derke only play jett and smokes, then yeah we'd be looking at a very similar situation. Know one considered nrg a super team because Ethan would be igling and demon1 would be forcing raze... we're basing this super team off their previous performances. If you take them off the roles and positions they have on their previous performances... well then it just defeats the point...
I do think an AC would benefit this team tremendously, but for a first-time IGL 4th at an international is pretty good. It stings a bit because watching them play during swiss it looked like they had the potential to easily reach the grand finals, but 4th will have to do for now. I have faith in this team's ability to grow, especially as sayf gets more and more used to IGLing.
Toph_ [#12]Nothing is hindsight about Victor and Crashies being stupidly overrated. Victor has NEVER in his career been at the level to make up a super team. Sure, demon1 player random roles and Ethan igling is hindsight. But those are just STUPID decisions. If sayf was playing duelist AND igling whilst derke only play jett and smokes, then yeah we'd be looking at a very similar situation. Know one considered nrg a super team because Ethan would be igling and demon1 would be forcing raze... we're basing this super team off their previous performances. If you take them off the roles and positions they have on their previous performances... well then it just defeats the point...
I hate to be that guy, but literally everyone considered 2024 NRG a super team.
Neuronium [#11]That’s insane. 2023 FNATIC was a super team. Literally everyone was calling it that.
Side note: the only successful super-team, too
“Everyone” half of the people here didn't even know who leo WAS before he was on fnatic and chronicle literally did nothing in 2022... you can't say they're the only successful "super team" when the 2 others haven't even had a full year.
Toph_ [#12]Nothing is hindsight about Victor and Crashies being stupidly overrated. Victor has NEVER in his career been at the level to make up a super team. Sure, demon1 player random roles and Ethan igling is hindsight. But those are just STUPID decisions. If sayf was playing duelist AND igling whilst derke only play jett and smokes, then yeah we'd be looking at a very similar situation. Know one considered nrg a super team because Ethan would be igling and demon1 would be forcing raze... we're basing this super team off their previous performances. If you take them off the roles and positions they have on their previous performances... well then it just defeats the point...
Demon1 didn't play random roles. He played primarily duelist, with a few controllers mixed in on certain maps—just like he did in EG when they were winning. And Victor was the only one you could MAYBE argue to be a weak link in the roster, but even he was a Masters winner and was at least pretty good. Crashies, Marved, Demon1, and Ethan all had incredibly high prospects and a lot of firepower.
Neuronium [#14]I hate to be that guy, but literally everyone considered 2024 NRG a super team.
Yes... and every single one of you were idiots... same way everyone said NRG would win kickoff and even bangkok... and I've said since the beginning that team would FLOP. Sometimes evidently... the majority is wrong...
Toph_ [#10]What are “these kinds of super teams”? Vitality and T1 imo are the first proper super teams.
NRG, Sentinels with Sacy/Pancada, Lev last year, these are all teams that you could—and many did—consider a superteam. Even if you don't think they personally were a superteam, their results did not match up with the loads of firepower that they had.
Sort of embarrassing that I can only remember America's "superteams" off the top of my head, but point still stands. Firepower can disappoint and does not always equal success.
Toph_ [#15]“Everyone” half of the people here didn't even know who leo WAS before he was on fnatic and chronicle literally did nothing in 2022... you can't say they're the only successful "super team" when the 2 others haven't even had a full year.
Brother, we must have been watching two different games in late 2022 and early 2023 😂. And of course, I mean that FNATIC is the only successful superteam up-to-date. I’m not cursing all superteams and saying they can’t be successful no matter what. Objectively speaking, FNATIC still is the only successful superteam in Valorant. (Also, real ball-knowers will know that Leo was regarded as one of the best initators in EMEA at the time, chron’s always been known as an exceptional player with great util, and that FNATIC was, in the eyes of most, a superteam.) The only reason that wasn’t reflected in rankings (at least for lock in) was that Boaster and FNATIC had a reputation for choking when it mattered most.
Toph_ [#17]Yes... and every single one of you were idiots... same way everyone said NRG would win kickoff and even bangkok... and I've said since the beginning that team would FLOP. Sometimes evidently... the majority is wrong...
Doesn’t change the fact that that was still a superteam. Now that I think about it, I don’t think you know what a superteam is lol
Wingull [#13]I do think an AC would benefit this team tremendously, but for a first-time IGL 4th at an international is pretty good. It stings a bit because watching them play during swiss it looked like they had the potential to easily reach the grand finals, but 4th will have to do for now. I have faith in this team's ability to grow, especially as sayf gets more and more used to IGLing.
I’m super happy to see that Sayf’s IGL’ing wasn’t horrendous and that there was potential. Also, kicks’ midrounding was super impressive to me, and generally, kicks just really impressed since kickoff.
zetydy [#16]Demon1 didn't play random roles. He played primarily duelist, with a few controllers mixed in on certain maps—just like he did in EG when they were winning. And Victor was the only one you could MAYBE argue to be a weak link in the roster, but even he was a Masters winner and was at least pretty good. Crashies, Marved, Demon1, and Ethan all had incredibly high prospects and a lot of firepower.
He played raze... and omen... random demon1 did not play a single game on either of those agents at Tokyo or champs, why's he playing them. There is no maybe Victor is mediocre. He had Prime yay, Prime marved, and the best igl in the world at the time when he won masters and was literally the 4th rated play on the team at that tournament, BARLEY above FNS... Crashies is good at the role not firepower. Marved ill give you, Ethan good at the role wouldn't consider him firepower .
Neuronium [#20]Doesn’t change the fact that that was still a superteam. Now that I think about it, I don’t think you know what a superteam is lol
I never said that changed anything, I'm explaining why the majority thinking something doesn't make it true. You THINKING it's a super team doesn't make that the case within reality. Guess what I don't need to THINK they're not a super team, they PROVED they weren't by failing to make an event and dropping 2 players before stage 2. That only hindsight if I actually thought they were a super team. You thinking they were is irrelevant to me.
Toph_ [#22]He played raze... and omen... random demon1 did not play a single game on either of those agents at Tokyo or champs, why's he playing them. There is no maybe Victor is mediocre. He had Prime yay, Prime marved, and the best igl in the world at the time when he won masters and was literally the 4th rated play on the team at that tournament, BARLEY above FNS... Crashies is good at the role not firepower. Marved ill give you, Ethan good at the role wouldn't consider him firepower .
Demon1 played Astra and Brim during champs, though? How is that so different from Omen. And besides, he played 2 total maps of Omen. And, shocking, in a Raze meta he was expected to try Raze. As a top duelist, he should've been able to adapt. Just like if the meta shifted to a duelist Derke was worse on after the team was formed, he would still be expected to play it, get better, and remain a top duelist.
I do think with hindsight Demon1 is obviously less flexible than Derke, but this is hindsight once again.
Neuronium [#3]NRG 2024, who honestly did well at kickoffs, still absolutely scarred me as a fan of that team. That team really showed me that you can’t win off of firepower alone, you know?
bro said nrg did well at kickoff (they didnt), they almost let furia get 11 rounds on a map, and barely won vs c9
i get your point, but you cant lie to make statements supporting your proof
zetydy [#18]NRG, Sentinels with Sacy/Pancada, Lev last year, these are all teams that you could—and many did—consider a superteam. Even if you don't think they personally were a superteam, their results did not match up with the loads of firepower that they had.
Sort of embarrassing that I can only remember America's "superteams" off the top of my head, but point still stands. Firepower can disappoint and does not always equal success.
NRG didn't have firepower, but it's clear people apparently saw something in those players that I wasn't seeing... SEN same problem with NRG brother, they had sacy on viper and omen...their results didn't match up because they're being put on stupid roles. That to me is not a failure. Because they were never good on those roles. Lev??? Are we being serious?
Neuronium [#7]Damn, that is one of the most absurd statements I have ever read. A peak demon1, the best support player in the world at the time, a really talented core of 3 super successful valorant players, all performing well at the time, and that isn’t a super team? 2024 NRG was the definition of a failed super team. It’s obvious that that lineup was built to contend for championships.
All of them sucked once they gathered didn't you see demon1 how he became ? Crashies and victor also sounded lost with ethan okayish IGLing but vitality everything is good they atleast needs time or small changes
OCARINA [#27]All of them sucked once they gathered didn't you see demon1 how he became ? Crashies and victor also sounded lost with ethan okayish IGLing but vitality everything is good they atleast needs time or small changes
The point did a 360, a backflip, a high kick, and completely flew over your head
zetydy [#24]Demon1 played Astra and Brim during champs, though? How is that so different from Omen. And besides, he played 2 total maps of Omen. And, shocking, in a Raze meta he was expected to try Raze. As a top duelist, he should've been able to adapt. Just like if the meta shifted to a duelist Derke was worse on after the team was formed, he would still be expected to play it, get better, and remain a top duelist.
I do think with hindsight Demon1 is obviously less flexible than Derke, but this is hindsight once again.
Why are you comparing demon1 and derke... You're thinking at face value... no one in their right mind is going to put cryo or yay on neon just because they're good at jett another duelist... Notice Yay-Victor, Cryo-Asuna/Zekken, Demon1-Jawgemo... 3 times and its a pattern then aren't the sole duelist... because they don't entry... thats not what they're good at... And a coach should be more than capable of realizing this. This is not how the game works, lmao. Same with astra and brim... you don't think theres a reason tenz didn't switch to astra for abyss or play brim on bind when those are objectively the best picks for those maps? Its not his play style omen enables him to be aggressive which he is. Brim and astra don't enable demon1 to be aggressive. It's not just tenz you can literally see it in the difference of how karon plays astra to how he plays omen.
LostMyAccount [#4]Too late, team Heretics will come back to their top form and Vitality wont win anything
yea heretics are gonna pull a fnc 24, lose out in the qualfying match to 1st masters, then dominate
vitality might not even qual 2nd masters ngl
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