2

Japanese problems?

Comments:
Threaded Linear
#1
RA621H

Their players don't have any ambition. Like, Japanese and Korean are one of the most easiest to learn if you know how to speak one another. There's a winning region right next to you. if you want to win, start learning Korean, or English, and go abroad. You see plenty of Koreans playing outside of Korea already in Valo. Saya was already playing in NA and was winning even before franchise. We've seen Americans playing in APAC of all places, and some in EMEA. Some EMEA players in Americas, too.

As for Japanese players, I haven't heard once that their players are looking to find a team abroad or have attended a tryout on a foreign team, so that could play in a winning roster. All they care is to cruise and coast on comfy Japanese orgs, collecting paychecks and building fanbase so that once they retire, they've got a nice place to fall back on. Sayin "NT" and pat themselves in the back once in a while whenever they shit the bed and bomb out of whatever tournaments.

Like, the amount of players who want to stick to T2 is already crazy enough. When your are in a team like RID, I get it. There seems to be a real chance in winning Ascensions and challenging for the spot in the International League. Other than that, if they feel they are good enough but keep playing on T2 'because there's no spot in either Zeta or DFM', welp, what should I say?

Even in LoL, a Japanese player, who's from the region that is by far one of the weakest, a region absolutely deserted up until recently, went to LEC to take his chance, nearing 30 years of age, married and with child, leaving his family behind back in Japan. That is what you call pro-gridnset, the urge to win. I don't see any Japanese Valo players doing that.

#2
IonlywatchvcjXD
1
Frags
+

Aace actually trialed to GE tho, although he didn't go so far.

Imo no wonder players wanted to stay in T2, when all the big orgs had 1 2 3 even 4 imports, there's no need to go outside when your region is basically 40% imports so you're bound to play like you're not in VCJ. It's not as if you're living comfy either, usually big salaries goes to imports since imports stay at big orgs

But I agree tho, the players need more ambition

#3
RA621H
0
Frags
+

That's why I said except RID. By extent Aace as well, since he left his winning roster, to look for a better team. My guy wants to win. But other than him and rest of the RID players?

#8
IonlywatchvcjXD
0
Frags
+

Fennel seems like an ambitious team to me alongside Murash.

Imo, they don't even need to look outside to show you are ambitious enough, just improve and fill the import slots. There's many orgs who are still importing anyways. If Scarz finally drops their bullshit import rosters for full Japanese roster then I think the players are ambitious enough.

#13
RA621H
0
Frags
+

Importing in VCJ feels more like a strucutral problem of higher order, a problem of orgs themselves rather than players. Sure, coaches have most say on rosters, but if the org wants it to be full Japanese, it would be (eg. Zeta). Also, I don't think making VCJ teams fully Japanese for the sake of it being fully Japanese wouldn't solve anything. We see a lot of full-Japanese entrants failing to qualify for the main stage already.

What I'm talking about rn is a more individual problem. To be very honest, I also believed in the strength of VCJ last year, and it did seem like the last Ascension spot was theirs to take. But now that it's quite evident they are lagging behind, I feel like we should be hearing much more news about Japanese players attending tryouts for foreign teams if they really want to win.

Japanese players playing mostly Japanese teams clearly hasn't worked for ghe last 4 years, bar that one Masters in Reykjavik. Standout players should realise that they need standout teammates in order to win.

#17
IonlywatchvcjXD
0
Frags
+

What I'm trying to say is back to #2, assuming that other regions have harder qualification, what makes them able to qualify that when you can't even get orgs to choose you instead of imports anyways. You need to set achievable goals first imo.

https://liquipedia.net/valorant/VCL/2024/Thailand/Split_2/Promotion
Saying full Japanese roster doesn't work is like saying full Indonesian roster or full Thai roster hasn't worked well when that's just how it is, just a team that fails to reach anything. There are 111 Thai players fighting their way for 2 spots in split 2, so most teams are full Thai, of course full thai team is going to fail when 99% of the league are Thai players. This is normal. Besides, Fennel and Murash have shown that you can succeed as a full japanese roster.

#23
RA621H
0
Frags
+

Well, I'm talking about players that could guaranteed get a spot in VCJ, not those who would lose their spot to imports. I'm not delusional enough to think that someone who can't even find a spot in VCJ would be successful abroad.

As for full-Japanese roster argument that I was making, I should note that I'm talking about two separate things here. On the one hand, like I've said, VCJ purely Japanese just for the sake of making it fully Japanese would only hamper quality. What's the meaning of giving new faces chances, if the competition is much easier? Sure, there were teams like Fennel and MRSH that did well in T2 as full-Japanese roster, but how could you say for sure that other full-Japanese rosters would be of same quality? Hence the argument about fully-Japanese rosters that are failing to qualify for the main stage. I think there's a good chance that the overall strength of VCJ would get closer to those teams that fail to qualify, than Fennel or MRSH should they impose absolute import ban.

As for the point about "mostly Japanese rosters", I'm talking about players that are clearly good enough for the international stage, be it good enough to qualify for Ascensions, or get a seat in T1, that are playing in a "mostly Japanese rosters". They are the ones that I'm arguing that should stop staying complacent and look for winning opportunities overseasz because mostly-Japanese rosters haven't worked for the last two years. This, however, doesn't apply for most of the T2 players.

#25
IonlywatchvcjXD
0
Frags
+

Fair enough

Tbh yeah , they are better off playing outside, having your tier 1 orgs to be incompetent managers ( Zeta ) and one that constantly hates your own players ( DFM) sucks anyways.

Soon, I think, full Japanese roster will look like a better choice for orgs imo, new players keep popping up like Keisu and Satwoshi ( istg pls let him play duelist ).

#4
wololo___
0
Frags
+

he tried atleast

#9
IonlywatchvcjXD
0
Frags
+

Yeah and that's good to see from him and that's why he's always my favourite player in Fennel

#5
Ryandr
0
Frags
+

Japan eSports scene needs to learn something from the sports scene of Japan. Japan is only good in fighting games and mobile game eSports. Also how is PC gaming still niche in Japan? And true it feels like both org and players have no motivation. It's probably cause of the PC eSports culture there but still they need to do something if they want to be at least competitive.

#6
Poh1238
1
Frags
+

cuz spending on 1000 dollar on gaming pc is still considered pretty damn idiot since everyone use macbook and no one want big ahh pc with there small room
just get ps5 and nintendo switch and done
i mean who want to spend on computer that you can literally buy 5-6 nintendo switch and 2 ps5 pro lol

#7
IonlywatchvcjXD
0
Frags
+

They need more PC cafes lol

#14
RA621H
1
Frags
+

Tbf, Riot made Valo as accessible as possible for a game that was released in 2020. You could run it on 60 fps on an average jo laptop no-problem. I don't think hardware accessibility is the problem here.

#10
midzera
0
Frags
+

I agree and disagree with parts of your statement. I definitely agree that Japanese players and teams need to push themselves out of their comfort zone and raise their ceiling to see some sort of progress. I mentioned it in another thread that Japanese teams need to risk-take on their strategies and compositions if they wanna adapt to the meta and keep an edge on teams who are not so strategically prepared. ZETA has shown that they do have the capacity to be creative and have plans to play Valorant well. But they absolutely need to improve their willingness to push themselves beyond their comfort zone.

On top of this, I think the mechanics definitely need to improve for Japanese Radiant players. Meiy is the gold standard for a Japanese player with cracked mechanics, but we need to see more of that. A lot of these players are hunkered down in Tier 2 and I believe it's because Japanese Tier 2 probably has one of the best org investments in comparison to other regions. You could say they're playing it safe, but given that it's their job, it would make sense that they want to live stably before they think about self-actualising their potential.

I don't think Japanese teams and players need to make drastic changes like going to new regions and such since the talent pool in Japan is there. In some instances like Saya at The Guard, it worked, but in other instances it didn't (e.g.: T1 last year). You would always want to make the most out of your current roster and the creativity they can offer alongside the coach before you make a sudden change. It saves money and time as well as allows for the full potential of the roster to be played out.

As a last point, I think Japanese Radiant players need to have more ambition as a whole. The top of the leaderboard is dominated by Thai, Korean and Indonesian players for a reason. They are very serious about going pro and then after that winning games on the big stage. Not to say Japanese players aren't as serious, but you can feel the hunger from players like Kush, Francis and Primmie when they're dominating with their filthy aim. Players like Aace and Caedye will probably enter Tier 1 soon. They're young and they have that fight in them. It's just a matter of when for them.

#11
IonlywatchvcjXD
1
Frags
+

Their leaderboards aren't that bad tho, it's certainly improving. I started to see many new names in the leaderboards now compared to before.

There are players with cracked mechanics and they are improving so I'm waiting lol

#18
danii1
0
Frags
+

like gyen right? He's cracked but he just can't show it in his games at DFM, at least not yet...

#19
IonlywatchvcjXD
0
Frags
+

Not really, the reason why I said I'm waiting is because most of them are 16 17 lol, and they only started playing so I need to wait and see.

#20
danii1
0
Frags
+

I see, hopefully Japan looks way better next year...
Also how is the work ethic of Japanese players overall? If you know something about that

#21
IonlywatchvcjXD
1
Frags
+

tbh, idk, so far I only focus on roster moves or the players.

Eventually they will be better, it's just I don't expect immediate results, I'd prefer to see a solid tier 2 in order to have a solid tier 1.

#22
danii1
0
Frags
+

Yeah for sure

#15
RA621H
0
Frags
+

I know it's actually hard to tell these players to chase ambition in place of stable pay in Japanese T2, since it's literally their living, and since they are already at a disadvantage once they retire from the scene and pursuit another career, but I wanted to point out that, even so, it's pretty darn disappointing that you don't see a single notable Jaoanese player going abroad.

#12
Astar
1
Frags
+

their t2 scene have a good salary its hard to think outside the box like that when you're in comfort zone. its more like their organization is the problem. their orgs need to be more ambitious to achieve win whatever it takes

#16
RA621H
0
Frags
+

Maybe decimating VCJ and destroying their comfort zone will actually force good players to look outside for opportunities lol.

#24
Biostar
0
Frags
+

Salaries are stable, but not ridiculously high.

VCJ's salaries range from 200,000 to 800,000 jpy. The median salary is probably much closer to 200,000.
Furthermore, it's not uncommon in esports contracts (especially in the financial vulnerable tier 2) to only get paid when you play a match and have your roster inactive in the offseason.

The minimum annual salary for Tier 1 (67,000,000 krw = 7,322,500 jpy) is quite high in Japan and will only be available to a small group of players and imports.

The vast majority of players are paid like convenience store cashiers, and they shouldn't be paid less than that to “cultivate their competitive spirit”.

#26
Astar
0
Frags
+

they should try the SEA orgs method of payment. "i'll pay you with free unlimited access to my internet cafe and 3 meals a day and maybe if you guys qualify something i buy y'all an iphone"

and lets see what happens

#27
Biostar
0
Frags
+

In Challengers Korea, half of the teams are unorganized and they get treated similar to what you said. The other half are salaried.
half of them get paid like dog chew peanuts. They have sponsors, but they just get some pocket money.
The other half are LCK orgs, who spend millions of dollars a year on LOL teams. They're bigger organizations than Zeta or DFM, and the players get a steady paycheck that doesn't require them to go to Japan (but it's shitty too, and still not much more than a convenience store cashier).

There's not much difference between the three. SPG was somewhere between the first group and second group.

#28
doli928
0
Frags
+

i remember that korean t2 team 'i need sponsor'. those guys were terrible tho

#29
Biostar
0
Frags
+

I Want Sponsor (IWS) is fine, but they haven't gotten a sponsor.

#30
doli928
0
Frags
+

are they fine? i only saw stats of a single match. i hope they could get a sponsor

#31
Biostar
0
Frags
+

Unfortunately, it's unlikely to remain into next season...

  • Preview
  • Edit
› check that that your post follows the forum rules and guidelines or get formatting help
Sign up or log in to post a comment