The theory that BBL is using in their comp (replacing flash initiator with yoru/vyse) opens up a spot in comp that can be filled with any agent. In this instance they're using a chamber, but what other agents that aren't used because they don't fill a traditional role in a comp do you guys think will be used?
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Yoru-vyse
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Anguibok [#2]I'm kinda sure that the gameplan is to have a better aim than their opponent here...
Yeah if this was tactical they would have definitely played kj instead
I think we're going to see more comp variety than we ever have before honestly. Double sentinel in this map pool is strong, triple initiator could come back, and with more teams adopting yoru, I think double dive with a raze/neon/jett might get some play too. I'd personally like to see a comp with yoru/gekko/breach, maybe on bind or sunset if it comes back.
alchemy02 [#4]I think we're going to see more comp variety than we ever have before honestly. Double sentinel in this map pool is strong, triple initiator could come back, and with more teams adopting yoru, I think double dive with a raze/neon/jett might get some play too. I'd personally like to see a comp with yoru/gekko/breach, maybe on bind or sunset if it comes back.
Sentinel are weak as fuck in the current meta, when the best team gonna play people gonna copy them, we ended the year about 0 sentinel being meta en Bind, Breeze, Abyss and fucking Lotus. Every sentinel where nerf and now we have 2 senitnel meta ? This makes no sense, this new mode gonna stay for like 2 mounth and split 1 we gonna see less and less senitnels (Even more when Tejo will be mastered)
Anguibok [#2]I'm kinda sure that the gameplan is to have a better aim than their opponent here...
That might be their game plan but the thought behind their comp is different. You wouldn't be able to play a chamber as effectively without the flashes from yoru/vyse
Anguibok [#5]Sentinel are weak as fuck in the current meta, when the best team gonna play people gonna copy them, we ended the year about 0 sentinel being meta en Bind, Breeze, Abyss and fucking Lotus. Every sentinel where nerf and now we have 2 senitnel meta ? This makes no sense, this new mode gonna stay for like 2 mounth and split 1 we gonna see less and less senitnels (Even more when Tejo will be mastered)
I don't agree, I think teams will realize that Yoru is a great pick, and that frees up a spot for an extra agent. Sure, teams could go triple initiator, and that will probably be good too. But if you look at the map pool, like 5/7 of the maps are attack sided imo. Fracture, haven, abyss, lotus, and pearl. I think it'd be better to invest in a defensive comp at least on those maps, since you technically can negate some of the attack disadvantages that come with double sentinel.
alchemy02 [#7]I don't agree, I think teams will realize that Yoru is a great pick, and that frees up a spot for an extra agent. Sure, teams could go triple initiator, and that will probably be good too. But if you look at the map pool, like 5/7 of the maps are attack sided imo. Fracture, haven, abyss, lotus, and pearl. I think it'd be better to invest in a defensive comp at least on those maps, since you technically can negate some of the attack disadvantages that come with double sentinel.
Composition without a flash are also good.
3 initiator is an horrible composition, if you remove your sentinel it's fgor a smoker (And 2 smoker comp are strong)
Anguibok [#8]Composition without a flash are also good.
3 initiator is an horrible composition, if you remove your sentinel it's fgor a smoker (And 2 smoker comp are strong)
What teams run no flashes on any map in the pool right now? I'm fairly sure like 95% of teams have a flash agent in every single comp, so idk how that can mean no flash comp would be good.
alchemy02 [#9]What teams run no flashes on any map in the pool right now? I'm fairly sure like 95% of teams have a flash agent in every single comp, so idk how that can mean no flash comp would be good.
Data on 2024 Split 2 (T1+T2) : 0-flash composition représent 14% of compositions, (55% Non Mirror Winrate)
Pickrate by mat
- Lotus 38%
- Icebox 20%
- Ascent 7%
- Sunset 4%
On the last master only
- So lot of team on Lotus
- Lev on Icebox
- Lav and Sen on Ascent
- Lev on Abyss
Anguibok [#10]Data on 2024 Split 2 (T1+T2) : 0-flash composition représent 14% of compositions, (55% Non Mirror Winrate)
Pickrate by mat
- Lotus 38%
- Icebox 20%
- Ascent 7%
- Sunset 4%
On the last master only
- So lot of team on Lotus
- Lev on Icebox
- Lav and Sen on Ascent
- Lev on Abyss
I said in the pool right now, so Lotus is the only map that rlly matters in that data. And its last year's data, from over 6 months ago... pre neon nerfs, pre chamber buff, pre phoenix buff. All things that will contribute to flash agents being mandatory basically. We'll see though, i'll come back to this after kickoff is over.
alchemy02 [#11]I said in the pool right now, so Lotus is the only map that rlly matters in that data. And its last year's data, from over 6 months ago... pre neon nerfs, pre chamber buff, pre phoenix buff. All things that will contribute to flash agents being mandatory basically. We'll see though, i'll come back to this after kickoff is over.
No worry it was already the case before Neon up.
Name one specific reason why no flash are good on Lotus and Icebox (Literally the 2 most different map in the mapool) and it couldnt be sucessfull in other map ? Except Breeze the Winrate of this composition are in positive in every single map.
Anguibok [#12]No worry it was already the case before Neon up.
Name one specific reason why no flash are good on Lotus and Icebox (Literally the 2 most different map in the mapool) and it couldnt be sucessfull in other map ? Except Breeze the Winrate of this composition are in positive in every single map.
I would guess it would have to do with the attacker sided nature of these maps. Flashes are great for attack, but on larger maps more recon is favoured. Also, are you counting gekko as a flash? I'm curious
Vaaero [#13]I would guess it would have to do with the attacker sided nature of these maps. Flashes are great for attack, but on larger maps more recon is favoured. Also, are you counting gekko as a flash? I'm curious
Yup, I did question myself a lot about putting Gekko in vision, but since team use him a lot like that, I decided to consider him as a vision (Played in 1011 games as solovision, played in 589 games as a solo vision T1 + T2 combined in Split 2 only)
Anguibok [#14]Yup, I did question myself a lot about putting Gekko in vision, but since team use him a lot like that, I decided to consider him as a vision (Played in 1011 games as solovision, played in 589 games as a solo vision T1 + T2 combined in Split 2 only)
What comps on icebox were run then without flash? Gekko/kayo was very popular
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