Just curious why are people rating DFM higher than zeta?
I'm not saying zeta is perfect or far better than dfm but people make it out as if zeta are much worse than dfm
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Zeta and DFM
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Stormyv8 [#2]who people
Go to Any apac tierlist and you will notice that many rated dfm higher than zeta
IonlywatchvcjXD [#3]Go to Any apac tierlist and you will notice that many rated dfm higher than zeta
atp dfm over zeta ofc, idk what happend in the future but yes zeta is fcked
maytheforcebewithyou [#5]maybe due to dfm beat edg and rrq and, u know, meiy effects
Even prior to dfm vs edg everyone seems to think that dfm is better but yeah with dfm winning g against edg no one will change their mind now, just need to wait and see at riot One they will face off
opLOL [#4]atp dfm over zeta ofc, idk what happend in the future but yes zeta is fcked
While I do think zeta has a low prospect of succeeding , primarily because of the role clash between syouta and dep ( they should've just kept hiroronn imo) , but this is still fennel roster and they have the consistency.
highlyte [#7]we need to look at Zeta against Fnatiс and Leviatan to draw conclusions.
At this point if zeta failed at riot One they will get hiroronn back and switch with syouta ( it's possible but kinda scummy tho)
IonlywatchvcjXD [#9]At this point if zeta failed at riot One they will get hiroronn back and switch with syouta ( it's possible but kinda scummy tho)
It would be too ridiculous to change the lineup that has been playing all offseason a month before kickoff.
also i think the coaches should have found a balance between dep and syouta
KClaw [#11]Cause DFM just shit on edg, obviously edg started practicing back again just about 2 weeks ago but still they are world champions and are aiming pretty well so says a lot about dfm
This happened way before dfm vs edg happened
derptz [#14]Because there are korean players playing on DFM that makes them good enough and currently better than ZETA
This fixation on koreans is borderline racist and the fact there's 2 upvotes reaffirms my thought about why imports bring more harm than good to a region.
I know this has always been the case I just don't know for sure yet but now I know.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#15]This fixation on koreans is borderline racist and the fact there's 2 upvotes reaffirms my thought about why imports bring more harm than good to a region.
I know this has always been the case I just don't know for sure yet but now I know.
You can't deny that Akame and Jinboong make the team really good tho.
danii1 [#16]You can't deny that Akame and Jinboong make the team really good tho.
akame is great ( he's no longer igling and can focus on fragging) Jinboong is ok ( he will bring his split 2 stats to dfm if he doesn't improve and if he don't improve I'jm just saying Hiroronn is free agent rn) . They don't care which koreans they bring to DFM, for them it's Korean > Japanese which is why DFM is better than Zeta. You have to understand how braindead this line of thinking is.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#13]This happened way before dfm vs edg happened
Ohh so maybe because DFM built a pretty good roster around meiy who's now even grown to play Jett rally good I guess and while Zeta lost their best player laz that's why I guess but honestly Zeta looks good as well
It could be because of their previous performance during this off-season against EDG and RRQ. Personally, I don't think they're much more superior than Zeta as a team and a team that can conquer titanic teams yet but it's still too early to rate them because its off-season and everybody is getting better atm
IonlywatchvcjXD [#17]akame is great ( he's no longer igling and can focus on fragging) Jinboong is ok ( he will bring his split 2 stats to dfm if he doesn't improve and if he don't improve I'jm just saying Hiroronn is free agent rn) . They don't care which koreans they bring to DFM, for them it's Korean > Japanese which is why DFM is better than Zeta. You have to understand how braindead this line of thinking is.
There's objectively more talent in Korea than in Japan. But I do understand. Japan needs to develop more of their talent instead of Korean talent
danii1 [#21]There's objectively more talent in Korea than in Japan. But I do understand. Japan needs to develop more of their talent instead of Korean talent
I agree with both, it's just I think some people here are being ridiculous judging a team based on their nationalities, not on who the players are
IonlywatchvcjXD [#22]I agree with both, it's just I think some people here are being ridiculous judging a team based on their nationalities, not on who the players are
Okay that's true. I agree
At REDBULL HOMEGROUND APAC, ZETA's victory over DFM was simply due to the difference in their level of development at that time. ZETA was a team made up of 2 core members and 3 FL core members, which resulted in a 2+3 formation. While their potential for growth was limited, they already had a certain level of completeness at that point. On the other hand, DFM kept only Meiy and brought in 4 new members from different teams. This resulted in a lower level of initial completeness, and with two Korean players on the team, there were communication challenges as well. Additionally, there was not enough time for Art's IGL role to fully settle in. However, despite being formed only about two weeks prior, DFM managed to defeat TLN and even outperformed ZETA in terms of content. If DFM and ZETA were to face off now, DFM would likely dominate.
Laski [#24]At REDBULL HOMEGROUND APAC, ZETA's victory over DFM was simply due to the difference in their level of development at that time. ZETA was a team made up of 2 core members and 3 FL core members, which resulted in a 2+3 formation. While their potential for growth was limited, they already had a certain level of completeness at that point. On the other hand, DFM kept only Meiy and brought in 4 new members from different teams. This resulted in a lower level of initial completeness, and with two Korean players on the team, there were communication challenges as well. Additionally, there was not enough time for Art's IGL role to fully settle in. However, despite being formed only about two weeks prior, DFM managed to defeat TLN and even outperformed ZETA in terms of content. If DFM and ZETA were to face off now, DFM would likely dominate.
While their potential for growth was limited, they already had a certain level of completeness at that point.
All are still young , growth potential is still there. And there's no guarantee they're that ready yet, look at zeta's performance, notice how only Dep and Sugrazero were fragging while FL members were not. Zeta isn't complete yet.
two Korean players on the team, there were communication challenges as well.
Both Koreans are fluent in Japanese.
However, despite being formed only about two weeks prior
and all 4 of them have trialed for a long time. If anything DFM is actually more complete than zeta from the start just because of this fact
If DFM and ZETA were to face off now, DFM would likely dominate.
The only reason why I favour DFM winning against zeta is because of the confidence boost from this event.
everything [#29]Although it is just an off-season, dfm managed to beat edg sooo u know
I'm talking about way before that match
sanknight [#31]dfm all round surpassed zeta last year
and man I love zeta but playing like that last year with 900 coaches was kinda weird I wont lie
but both of the JP teams look really nice
Ngl zeta's roster move last year confuse me either, this season they will potentially repeat the same mistakes again in syouta role issues
IonlywatchvcjXD [#32]Ngl zeta's roster move last year confuse me either, this season they will potentially repeat the same mistakes again in syouta role issues
yuran and hiroronn were top prospects in t2 at the time
it definitely was either coaching issues or roles
this new fennel crossover is promising tho they looked good in the HG qualifier
sanknight [#33]yuran and hiroronn were top prospects in t2 at the time
it definitely was either coaching issues or roles
this new fennel crossover is promising tho they looked good in the HG qualifier
Hiroronn definitely is, while I don't see how Yuran is a top prospect he got picked by Sengoku recently so I choose to trust them. It's definitely coaching ( too many cooks in the kitchen) and role problem ( Hiroronn and possibly Yuran since he's replacing Impact who is a sentinel player)
Because nobody rates the Fennel's 3 core players as highly as you do. Fennel ruined the regular season and also lost to Riddle. And what happened to Riddle at Ascension?
Just few doubts Syouta, but he doesn't go into a team with Laz, he replaces him. Laz got all kinds of unfair criticism, but he was the best Japanese player in stage 1, and the second best in stage 2 behind Meiy. Are you sure a tier 2 player will be better than him?
Other than Syouta, the other 2 were mid players in tier 2, just hiroron level players, so the team basically hasn't changed. DFM on the other hand is making people curious because nothing is known about the players.
As you said, some people underrate them because they don't care, but many people see them low because they've seen enough. It's hard to call them unfair.
Biostar [#35]Because nobody rates the Fennel's 3 core players as highly as you do. Fennel ruined the regular season and also lost to Riddle. And what happened to Riddle at Ascension?
Just few doubts Syouta, but he doesn't go into a team with Laz, he replaces him. Laz got all kinds of unfair criticism, but he was the best Japanese player in stage 1, and the second best in stage 2 behind Meiy. Are you sure a tier 2 player will be better than him?
Other than Syouta, the other 2 were mid players in tier 2, just hiroron level players, so the team basically hasn't changed. DFM on the other hand is making people curious because nothing is known about the players.
As you said, some people underrate them because they don't care, but many people see them low because they've seen enough. It's hard to call them unfair.
This. I also doubt they will perform against mid table team.
Except if one of their player hard carry just like meiy. Having laz retired is a big hit for zeta.
Biostar [#35]Because nobody rates the Fennel's 3 core players as highly as you do. Fennel ruined the regular season and also lost to Riddle. And what happened to Riddle at Ascension?
Just few doubts Syouta, but he doesn't go into a team with Laz, he replaces him. Laz got all kinds of unfair criticism, but he was the best Japanese player in stage 1, and the second best in stage 2 behind Meiy. Are you sure a tier 2 player will be better than him?
Other than Syouta, the other 2 were mid players in tier 2, just hiroron level players, so the team basically hasn't changed. DFM on the other hand is making people curious because nothing is known about the players.
As you said, some people underrate them because they don't care, but many people see them low because they've seen enough. It's hard to call them unfair.
Fennel ruined the regular season and also lost to Riddle.
It's not Fennel's fault that Derialy took a break and almost ruined fennel. The fact they went all the way to grand finals is already very good in on itself.
And what happened to Riddle at Ascension?
Went close against SPG and eventually took 4th place.
Laz got all kinds of unfair criticism
just hiroron level players
While Laz gets to prove to everyone by playing his usual roles, Hiroronn was unfairly criticized for playing a role that's not what he's known for. He wasn't even given the chance to prove himself to the crowd and even if he eventually did it's too late already. He got shit on all year while having to play with handicapped. Laz left Zeta having accomplished something while Hiroronn left Zeta with a bitter note that's not even his fault. .Who's getting more unfair criticism here? Everyone gets criticism but without anything to defend or even prove a point against I'm more certain that Hiroronn had it much worse than Laz
DFM on the other hand is making people curious because nothing is known about the players.
More like people are looking at Meiy only. It's very convenient to look away from bad records like SSeeS's bad result last year, Jinboong's mid showing in split 2 ( he looked completely different from his split 1's performance) and even when we're talking about positive record do people except few even know or remember that Akame's the IGL for Reject? No, people only see Meiy and Meiy only. People just don't care, and it's pointless to argue with that hell I'm even questioning what's the point of this thread when no one is going to care anyways.
opLOL [#4]atp dfm over zeta ofc, idk what happend in the future but yes zeta is fcked
zeta was the apac runersup in redbull quali..
and zeta won against DFM in that tourney.So we can assue its a fair battle
IonlywatchvcjXD [#38]Fennel ruined the regular season and also lost to Riddle.
It's not Fennel's fault that Derialy took a break and almost ruined fennel. The fact they went all the way to grand finals is already very good in on itself.
And what happened to Riddle at Ascension?
Went close against SPG and eventually took 4th place.
Laz got all kinds of unfair criticism
just hiroron level playersWhile Laz gets to prove to everyone by playing his usual roles, Hiroronn was unfairly criticized for playing a role that's not what he's known for. He wasn't even given the chance to prove himself to the crowd and even if he eventually did it's too late already. He got shit on all year while having to play with handicapped. Laz left Zeta having accomplished something while Hiroronn left Zeta with a bitter note that's not even his fault. .Who's getting more unfair criticism here? Everyone gets criticism but without anything to defend or even prove a point against I'm more certain that Hiroronn had it much worse than Laz
DFM on the other hand is making people curious because nothing is known about the players.
More like people are looking at Meiy only. It's very convenient to look away from bad records like SSeeS's bad result last year, Jinboong's mid showing in split 2 ( he looked completely different from his split 1's performance) and even when we're talking about positive record do people except few even know or remember that Akame's the IGL for Reject? No, people only see Meiy and Meiy only. People just don't care, and it's pointless to argue with that hell I'm even questioning what's the point of this thread when no one is going to care anyways.
Quit twisting my words around plz. I gave a generic reason and you're picking words. Fennel lost. Riddle also lost. In a tournament that was clearly below Tier 1 level and had no meaning other than winning. Say honestly, you don't think BME will be a top VCT either, do you? I'm just saying that Fennel players are at that level. I'm completly not interested in their story or possibilities, just like you're not interested in the possibilities of Koreans.
The "unfair criticism Laz has received" is also just a comment on his skills. Why should I be criticized for not caring about Hirorons environment for you? Do I need to know his human suffering for you? He's just one of the worst tier 1 players in my eyes. cuz his stats are. Laz's stats aren't. 'Unfair criticism' means that.
"Hiroron level players" is quite literal. Hiroron only had a rating of 1.08 even in his champion season, and I only say similar because Clz and Xdll are also 1.0 rated players. It doesn't mean anything else.
Can't we just take it literally? Plz, Couldnt you hold the end of my sentences and do not use ad hoc arguments? You're over-emoting and saying you don't understand people who don't have emotions.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#38]Fennel ruined the regular season and also lost to Riddle.
It's not Fennel's fault that Derialy took a break and almost ruined fennel. The fact they went all the way to grand finals is already very good in on itself.
And what happened to Riddle at Ascension?
Went close against SPG and eventually took 4th place.
Laz got all kinds of unfair criticism
just hiroron level playersWhile Laz gets to prove to everyone by playing his usual roles, Hiroronn was unfairly criticized for playing a role that's not what he's known for. He wasn't even given the chance to prove himself to the crowd and even if he eventually did it's too late already. He got shit on all year while having to play with handicapped. Laz left Zeta having accomplished something while Hiroronn left Zeta with a bitter note that's not even his fault. .Who's getting more unfair criticism here? Everyone gets criticism but without anything to defend or even prove a point against I'm more certain that Hiroronn had it much worse than Laz
DFM on the other hand is making people curious because nothing is known about the players.
More like people are looking at Meiy only. It's very convenient to look away from bad records like SSeeS's bad result last year, Jinboong's mid showing in split 2 ( he looked completely different from his split 1's performance) and even when we're talking about positive record do people except few even know or remember that Akame's the IGL for Reject? No, people only see Meiy and Meiy only. People just don't care, and it's pointless to argue with that hell I'm even questioning what's the point of this thread when no one is going to care anyways.
I can't help but say the same thing about the last one. What do you want, a ton of attention for japanese teams? were DFM and Zeta big international favorites? did they win masters or champs? of course no one cares. a bunch of Ascension losers found teams this offseason, do you know them all? it's only natural that people are only interested in their own teams. No wonder people only know Meiy! Of course, "curious" is also relative. GYEN got a little bit of attention at vlr because no one had ever heard of him. ART got a few people saying "who is he?" because no one had ever seen him play either. I mean, more interest than the three Ascension qualify losers. Not everyone in the world.
They started getting everyone's attention after they beat champion EDG, and you know how absolute the change in perception was afterward.
Biostar [#41]Quit twisting my words around plz. I gave a generic reason and you're picking words. Fennel lost. Riddle also lost. In a tournament that was clearly below Tier 1 level and had no meaning other than winning. Say honestly, you don't think BME will be a top VCT either, do you? I'm just saying that Fennel players are at that level. I'm completly not interested in their story or possibilities, just like you're not interested in the possibilities of Koreans.
The "unfair criticism Laz has received" is also just a comment on his skills. Why should I be criticized for not caring about Hirorons environment for you? Do I need to know his human suffering for you? He's just one of the worst tier 1 players in my eyes. cuz his stats are. Laz's stats aren't. 'Unfair criticism' means that.
"Hiroron level players" is quite literal. Hiroron only had a rating of 1.08 even in his champion season, and I only say similar because Clz and Xdll are also 1.0 rated players. It doesn't mean anything else.
Can't we just take it literally? Plz, Couldnt you hold the end of my sentences and do not use ad hoc arguments? You're over-emoting and saying you don't understand people who don't have emotions.
While I still believe that the gap between Zeta and DFM isn't as big as people make it out to be, you're right I'm arguing in bad faith, I'm just frustrated by vlr recently and just wanted to blow of some steam.
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