I am planning to learn initiators especially agents like Sova/kayo.
I know I have to support duelists on entry and comm with them etc., but other than that is there any more things I need to know while I'm learning initiators?
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Playing Initiators
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Denjisideals [#2]Learn the lineups
That's the main thing on initiator
Yeah , especially for kayo i gotta learn flash lineups. I always end up flashing my teammates
KClaw [#3]Perfect util usage including lineups and knowing ur role meaning u gotta understand in what situation or map u are extremely important for entry and executes and thus not throwing ur life away
I will keep this in mind , thanks for the advice :D!
Cluckyistaken [#4]Yeah , especially for kayo i gotta learn flash lineups. I always end up flashing my teammates
It will happen at first
Like with any other role
You just gotta push through
Watch what your teammates are doing and predict what util you can use to help them, don't always wait until they ask you.
If you're used to playing sentinels/controllers, don't forget initiators should be 2nd or 3rd into the site. You should be the person able to trade. Don't hang back unless you've got something like a sova ult.
Maybe paradoxical, but if you start working on util, make sure that you're not only playing util, there's too many initiators that just util dump but don't take fights.
kapteN [#9]Watch what your teammates are doing and predict what util you can use to help them, don't always wait until they ask you.
If you're used to playing sentinels/controllers, don't forget initiators should be 2nd or 3rd into the site. You should be the person able to trade. Don't hang back unless you've got something like a sova ult.
Maybe paradoxical, but if you start working on util, make sure that you're not only playing util, there's too many initiators that just util dump but don't take fights.
Yes I always struggle in taking fights with initiators. Just for some reason when i play smokes and sentinel, my fights feel completely different compared to when i play initiator. Attack somewhat is fine for me but i struggle especially in defense.
Galactc [#8]Don't play breach also just do things when you need to don't think you always have to use util
Breach tbh is easy to use, but yeah i rarely use breach unless i have a reliable duelist duo who needs help with entry
Wezzaa [#7]skye is fun
Only reason i dont play skye is fear of flashing my teammates. I'm just so lost playing initiators so im sticking with 2 agents for now
Cluckyistaken [#10]Yes I always struggle in taking fights with initiators. Just for some reason when i play smokes and sentinel, my fights feel completely different compared to when i play initiator. Attack somewhat is fine for me but i struggle especially in defense.
Initiators end up going in last and end up being the last alive, time your util (sovas recon) for the retake. Learn hotspot shock darts for flooding / after plant. You will be tasked with clutching more rounds than you think and you will be blamed for baiting, get used to it. On defense, unless you are cracked af you might want to hang back and play the retake with your team. Add me and I can show you a shit ton of lineups on every map for all these situations. Btreyu #Brim (peak Ascendant 3)
Cluckyistaken [#4]Yeah , especially for kayo i gotta learn flash lineups. I always end up flashing my teammates
if you have teammates that wont listen, try using the short distance throw around a corner instead of a longer lineup
the key to kayo is to remember you can make basically any play since you have flash, molly, and knife. really great for stalling for time. the key to sova is not to charge all the way to red, you usually dont even need a lineup if you think through the geometry. also sova does really well when working with smokes so get a smokes duo
moomoomoomeadows [#16]the key to kayo is to remember you can make basically any play since you have flash, molly, and knife. really great for stalling for time. the key to sova is not to charge all the way to red, you usually dont even need a lineup if you think through the geometry. also sova does really well when working with smokes so get a smokes duo
if youre learning sova/kayo you might also like fade for that early where are you util combined with the stall outs
moomoomoomeadows [#15]if you have teammates that wont listen, try using the short distance throw around a corner instead of a longer lineup
Alright I will keep this in mind next time. thanks :D
Btreyu [#14]Initiators end up going in last and end up being the last alive, time your util (sovas recon) for the retake. Learn hotspot shock darts for flooding / after plant. You will be tasked with clutching more rounds than you think and you will be blamed for baiting, get used to it. On defense, unless you are cracked af you might want to hang back and play the retake with your team. Add me and I can show you a shit ton of lineups on every map for all these situations. Btreyu #Brim (peak Ascendant 3)
I'm struggling how to use shock darts , for now im only using it for chip damage and breaking sentinal's util while we attack.
But I'd love to learn some tech from you , my username is Clucky#nAts you should have gotten a friend request
Btreyu [#14]Initiators end up going in last and end up being the last alive, time your util (sovas recon) for the retake. Learn hotspot shock darts for flooding / after plant. You will be tasked with clutching more rounds than you think and you will be blamed for baiting, get used to it. On defense, unless you are cracked af you might want to hang back and play the retake with your team. Add me and I can show you a shit ton of lineups on every map for all these situations. Btreyu #Brim (peak Ascendant 3)
I'm struggling how to use shock darts , for now im only using it for chip damage and breaking sentinal's util while we attack.
But I'd love to learn some tech from you , my username is Clucky#nAts you should have gotten a friend request
Nilaksha [#13]I'm playing gold 2,3. playing initiator there is worst nightmare. like if i play sova, even i said go after recon or go after drone. they run like they have fire in the ass to site before the drone goes.
Gold lobby was elo hell for me. It was easier for me to hit diamond than to get out of gold
moomoomoomeadows [#17]if youre learning sova/kayo you might also like fade for that early where are you util combined with the stall outs
Yeah thats what I love about Kay/o despite low win rate in ranked , I feel you can get huge value out of kayo alone from his kit. I only have to learn flash lineups to avoid flashing the team.
For sova i dont have much hours on him so it will take time for me to learn his recon projectiles and get a feel for it.
Only problem with fade is i feel like too many agents to master so im sticking with kayo and sova for now, but once i get hang of them then ill definitely try other initiators as well.
youngbonk [#22]80% of youtube lineup is unusable. just go watch lineup from tournament.
I'm watching sinatraa and fakeananas and learning how they play their agents. Porblem with VCT is ranked teams aint that coordinated compared to tournament teams , but i still could use few lineups from them
Rugsssssss [#25]lineups aren't everything, learn timings on utility, comm well, on single duelist comps be ready to be second entry, be adaptive and learn to counter enemy comps
all i could think of on the spot
Agreed. I also don't think lineups are everything. But yes I need to learn timings on utility , that's where im struggling rn.
Cluckyistaken [#12]Only reason i dont play skye is fear of flashing my teammates. I'm just so lost playing initiators so im sticking with 2 agents for now
If so, you should avoid kayo, his flash is much harder to use than skye's and has a higher chance of flashing your teammate
A bit late but the biggest thing I see low elo initiators do is solely rely on their util for info. Ie playing Sova and you hear 2+ people running off rip start of round you do not need to dart for info as you already know they’re there.
Also try to mix up start of round darts with holding for exec / reclear darts. If you’re using start of round darts maybe 2-3 times a half, combo it with Sova ult when you have it or fast rotates when you don’t. The less you use start of round darts the more effective they become. Also small thing but say if you play B on ascent every round when you get ult start the round on A, if people ult track then you will have a small opportunity to take advantage.
Make sure you have multiple retake lineups for each site on each map, and mess around with shock darts to have so you can easily hit the planter - think CT on C site haven you can bounce off platform with no lineups.
Exec lineups are fine but it’s more important to be present in attack rounds so you aren’t 2 hours away from the entry. Often I will just shoot the dart in simple locations and follow the entry out rather than being further back with a lineup.
Finally don’t feel like you have to save your ult for key moments or the right time, try to use as soon as you get it or at most the round after.
AfterGlow22 [#27]If so, you should avoid kayo, his flash is much harder to use than skye's and has a higher chance of flashing your teammate
Sure , then I will focus on recon agents right now. Someone was advising me to use fade since im already learning sova
Cryptic88 [#28]just a warning u may not frag out a lot and might get carried
My opinion initiators really have huge impact in your games , reason for me to swtich from smokes/senti to initiator is only because of the impact issues. Not saying smokes and senti dont have impact , but i feel in ranked aspect , you not only have util for ur team , but util to setup urself as well.
As a viper and cypher main , in 1v1's i dont have much util to setup myself other than ratting around cages and orb for lurks.
But as initiator I feel i have a flash to play around , some info recon abilities to help team for executes etc.
ortuh [#29]A bit late but the biggest thing I see low elo initiators do is solely rely on their util for info. Ie playing Sova and you hear 2+ people running off rip start of round you do not need to dart for info as you already know they’re there.
Also try to mix up start of round darts with holding for exec / reclear darts. If you’re using start of round darts maybe 2-3 times a half, combo it with Sova ult when you have it or fast rotates when you don’t. The less you use start of round darts the more effective they become. Also small thing but say if you play B on ascent every round when you get ult start the round on A, if people ult track then you will have a small opportunity to take advantage.
Make sure you have multiple retake lineups for each site on each map, and mess around with shock darts to have so you can easily hit the planter - think CT on C site haven you can bounce off platform with no lineups.
Exec lineups are fine but it’s more important to be present in attack rounds so you aren’t 2 hours away from the entry. Often I will just shoot the dart in simple locations and follow the entry out rather than being further back with a lineup.
Finally don’t feel like you have to save your ult for key moments or the right time, try to use as soon as you get it or at most the round after.
This is exactly what I have noticed from sinatraa and derrek in their ranked games. Sinatraa always uses his shock and recon for the retake in many unique ways, and as you mentioned the ult thing , I noticed pro sova players don't even hesitate to use their ult the moment they tag somebody.
Only problem im facing rn is too much utility so i am super lost sometimes when i am supposed to use. So im learning the utility usage rn , but yeah Huge advice man , thanks a lot :D
Cluckyistaken [#30]Sure , then I will focus on recon agents right now. Someone was advising me to use fade since im already learning sova
Fade is an awesome initiator, you really can't go wrong picking her. The prowler is also really good in 1v1s if used correctly
Denjisideals [#2]Learn the lineups
That's the main thing on initiator
Overrated. I'm not pro obviously but from my ranked experience and even watching bunch of pros play iniator on stream almost no one uses lineups or maybe use like one or two basic lineups. Lineups are never bad ofc, but trying to memorize or learn multiple is pretty hard and not worth it for most part. Legit most useful ranked lineups are cross the map ones from site A to site B to support team if enemy rushes, in my experience.
Most important is just to know how the abilities function and hows the distance etc. After that its just freestyling.
Soddalele [#34]as a sova/kayo enjoyer myself. lineups are important(for sova some of the more complicated ones require non-existent timing with others in ranked)
kayo flash lineups can be fucking broken if u have a duelist that asks for util(the best duelists do this alot)
Yeah I have friends who main duelists , which is why im learning kay/o , plus in mumbai servers double duelist comp is very popular
voxsu [#35]Midround info gathering is very important against try hard sweats try working on it as well, granted you have lineups and comms down. Or just re-clearing areas of the map where your team has lost control and there’s a pause in the play.
Noted! I will keep this in mind , but yes I often waste util early of the round , ill try adapting next time. thanks for the advice :D
Denjisideals [#2]Learn the lineups
That's the main thing on initiator
gold spotted, trolling aside learning lineups is not that useful on ranked, all you need is a few basic sova darts and kayo flashes that anyone can learn
the main thing on initiator is balancing ur util and gunplay and also getting the most value out of ur util (especially in ranked)
inlucid [#36]just shoot heads and spare all your util to use on the last enemy alive
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