Listen man I respect Aspas as much as anyone else but you can't deny he plays for stats. Good stats generally mean you had a good game and contributed to the win, specially if you are a duelist. But going 15-13 when your team is losing doesn't necessarily mean you tried your best. Yes, vlr and reddit forums might say well all of his teammates went negative and he went positive but stats don't mean much when your team loses crucial rounds and you are the last alive as a duelist.
You can see from his games that Aspas is scared of making risky plays when his team badly needs him to. With a guy as skilled as him he will always get his ones and will always win a fair fight but those fight don't necessarily give you the highest odds of winning a round.
BREN IS RIGHT !!
This whole argument is debunked when you see LEV Icebox. Aspas is often looking for first duels so he isnt scared on going first. On Abyss he wasn't entering but that was probably on the coach telling him to play OP. And to top it off he doesn't have as much firepower behind like he did with LOUD in its prime, so being the human drone at the start is probably not a good plan for LEV as I'd imagine they want to get the most out of their best player.
Takes minimal thinking to get stuff like this, so ur either silver of just a baiter if u think he is a bad duelist tbh. Plus if this plan was so bad they wouldn't have won America's and top 3 in Champs.
I_LOVE_LESS [#2]he doesnt have the level of firepower backing him up that he had in LOUD so theres more pressure on him to carry rather than play sacrificial like he did in 2022
That's absolutely not true. tex,kingg, mazino and even c0m are all capable fraggers who can consistently win favorable duels and even unfavorable ones. Valorant is a game of situations, if you create good situations for yourself, you will win more gunfights. Whether LEV as a team creates enough good, favorable situations for themselves can be up for debate but Aspas as a duelist can certainly help in that regard.
Rey55 [#5]That's absolutely not true. tex,kingg, mazino and even c0m are all capable fraggers who can consistently win favorable duels and even unfavorable ones. Valorant is a game of situations, if you create good situations for yourself, you will win more gunfights. Whether LEV as a team creates enough good, favorable situations for themselves can be up for debate but Aspas as a duelist can certainly help in that regard.
if you think tex kingg c0m and mazino are on the level of firepower as Less pAncada Sacy and saadhak you're delusional
AlexSMTx [#4]This whole argument is debunked when you see LEV Icebox. Aspas is often looking for first duels so he isnt scared on going first. On Abyss he wasn't entering but that was probably on the coach telling him to play OP. And to top it off he doesn't have as much firepower behind like he did with LOUD in its prime, so being the human drone at the start is probably not a good plan for LEV as I'd imagine they want to get the most out of their best player.
Takes minimal thinking to get stuff like this, so ur either silver of just a baiter if u think he is a bad duelist tbh. Plus if this plan was so bad they wouldn't have won America's and top 3 in Champs.
Also Lev team generally doesnt have bangs or stums for quicks attack.
When Aspas is on Neon, which is a more individual agent, the comp has stums and bangs.
Bur with Jett, the team usually plays for info and in a more slow pase.
AlexSMTx [#4]This whole argument is debunked when you see LEV Icebox. Aspas is often looking for first duels so he isnt scared on going first. On Abyss he wasn't entering but that was probably on the coach telling him to play OP. And to top it off he doesn't have as much firepower behind like he did with LOUD in its prime, so being the human drone at the start is probably not a good plan for LEV as I'd imagine they want to get the most out of their best player.
Takes minimal thinking to get stuff like this, so ur either silver of just a baiter if u think he is a bad duelist tbh. Plus if this plan was so bad they wouldn't have won America's and top 3 in Champs.
May be he is too comfortable on Icebox, one map can be an outlier. Regardless, the point is to get out of his comfort zones sometimes. Make crazy plays, ask your team to help you. Take risks and if you look like a fool then be it. Win as a team, lose as a team. Imagine Aspas making that Kangkang play with the guardian or that jawgemo bucky play on Ascent, because I can't. He might get an impressive 3k but that is most likely going to happen mid round when the opportunity presents itself and he just hits his shots.
I_LOVE_LESS [#6]if you think tex kingg c0m and mazino are on the level of firepower as Less pAncada Sacy and saadhak you're delusional
I would actually debate with you that Saadhack = King in term of firepower.
But yeah, there is no way Tex = Less in firepower.
I_LOVE_LESS [#6]if you think tex kingg c0m and mazino are on the level of firepower as Less pAncada Sacy and saadhak you're delusional
He should have just stayed on Loud then? Do you even realize that you saying this makes Aspas look less of a player? You are basically slandering him LOL
I_LOVE_LESS [#6]if you think tex kingg c0m and mazino are on the level of firepower as Less pAncada Sacy and saadhak you're delusional
bro kingg mazino and tex are definitely better than saadahk and sacy stop tweaking, even kingg and mazino might be on par with pancada and kingg and less are very similar
Rey55 [#10]He should have just stayed on Loud then? Do you even realize that you saying this makes Aspas look less of a player? You are basically slandering him LOL
im not? im saying he is clearly on a worse overall team in terms of firepower so theres more pressure on aspas to frag because he cant count on his team to win a 4v4 against the best teams in the world
I_LOVE_LESS [#6]if you think tex kingg c0m and mazino are on the level of firepower as Less pAncada Sacy and saadhak you're delusional
c0m > sacy
kingg > pancada
tex < less
mazino > pancada
?? ur still stuck in 2022 let it go bro
AlexSMTx [#4]This whole argument is debunked when you see LEV Icebox. Aspas is often looking for first duels so he isnt scared on going first. On Abyss he wasn't entering but that was probably on the coach telling him to play OP. And to top it off he doesn't have as much firepower behind like he did with LOUD in its prime, so being the human drone at the start is probably not a good plan for LEV as I'd imagine they want to get the most out of their best player.
Takes minimal thinking to get stuff like this, so ur either silver of just a baiter if u think he is a bad duelist tbh. Plus if this plan was so bad they wouldn't have won America's and top 3 in Champs.
And another thing about Icebox, they play without flash(omen bang isn't good in icebox). Instead of two initiators, they have two controllers, this make the entry so much harder, and even without the support, he is able to won 1v1. Ok, he doesn't take high risk like KangKang, but he WON 1v1 more than KangKang (based on try). KangKang got 26 first kill in the final, this is absurd, but he DIED 26 too... So, EDG, SEN and LEV have different playstyle, people try to compare Aspas with KangKang and Zekken entry, but they don't talk about the fact Aspas is a duelist who have way less support from his team.
I_LOVE_LESS [#12]im not? im saying he is clearly on a worse overall team in terms of firepower so theres more pressure on aspas to frag because he cant count on his team to win a 4v4 against the best teams in the world
NO. You are implying Aspas is a nothingburger without his former teammates. How is that praising him? tex, mazino and kingg are all capable fraggers. Mazino literally carried them in regular season, tex was going nuclear on fkin KJ winning every duel. wdym?
Aspas had really bad game once and then I open vlr and this guy has 15-13 scoreboard with a 1+ rating. Like do you realize, the way he plays he CAN NOT have bad ratings, irrespective of who his teammates are. This was the same at Loud too except less and pANcada were top 5 players back then but you can not have that at every team. And if you do then you don't have the claim to be the undisputed best player! I am sorry
Rey55 [#15]NO. You are implying Aspas is a nothingburger without his former teammates. How is that praising him? tex, mazino and kingg are all capable fraggers. Mazino literally carried them in regular season, tex was going nuclear on fkin KJ winning every duel. wdym?
Aspas had really bad game once and then I open vlr and this guy has 15-13 scoreboard with a 1+ rating. Like do you realize, the way he plays he CAN NOT have bad ratings, irrespective of who his teammates are. This was the same at Loud too except less and pANcada were top 5 players back then but you can not have that at every team. And if you do then you don't have the claim to be the undisputed best player! I am sorry
i am literally saying that when a duelist is forced to play selfish the team suffers
this is not a result of aspas being bad at the game it is a result of him being so much better than his team
he was never a super high rating duelist in LOUD because he could trust his teammates to close and could sacrifice himself for them (how duelist is meant to be played)
dort [#13]c0m > sacy
kingg > pancada
tex < less
mazino > pancada?? ur still stuck in 2022 let it go bro
com = sacy
kingg >/= saadhak (in mechanics i have no doubt kingg is better, but in igling i still put saadhak above, kingg is above currently but at the start of the year they lost to loud with qck simply because of how much better saadhak is at calling)
tex << less (as a lurker he isnt really good and he is more unconsistent on frags, next year he´ll surely improve tho)
mazino >/= pancada (pancada is back in the same shape but mazino has been nuclear on important instances for lev this entire year, against edg and heretics he was the best and on americas he carried both grands and lower)
I_LOVE_LESS [#16]i am literally saying that when a duelist is forced to play selfish the team suffers
this is not a result of aspas being bad at the game it is a result of him being so much better than his team
he was never a super high rating duelist in LOUD because he could trust his teammates to close and could sacrifice himself for them (how duelist is meant to be played)
I dont think the Lev guys would appreciate being told theyre deadweight so aspas has to prioritize himself, and I doubt aspas would ever say that either. Irrespective of it all, Lev are a super team who play at a high level, and if aspas still cant trust his teammates to frag and clutch, then I think it falls more on him than anything. Plus, I think the issue is more with how aspas heavy the team is, like oxy with c9, they focus a lot on making sure aspas is doing well and creating chances where he can excel, this leads to situations where they save for aspas, or have aspas save and not do a risky play just so he can keep a rifle next round.
koromast [#17]com = sacy
kingg >/= saadhak (in mechanics i have no doubt kingg is better, but in igling i still put saadhak above, kingg is above currently but at the start of the year they lost to loud with qck simply because of how much better saadhak is at calling)
tex << less (as a lurker he isnt really good and he is more unconsistent on frags, next year he´ll surely improve tho)
mazino >/= pancada (pancada is back in the same shape but mazino has been nuclear on important instances for lev this entire year, against edg and heretics he was the best and on americas he carried both grands and lower)
c0m is better than sacy by far. sacy hasnt had a good tournament since 2022
dort [#19]c0m is better than sacy by far. sacy hasnt had a good tournament since 2022
exactly, he was frying on loud in 2022
2022 Sacy clears C0M imo (not anymore tho tbf)
dort [#13]c0m > sacy
kingg > pancada
tex < less
mazino > pancada?? ur still stuck in 2022 let it go bro
As much as I don’t root for either loud, lev, or any of the players on those teams in particular, I think that aspas was, while not playing as good as before, it was largely in part to having a poorer system to play around.
Player to player wise, all of the players from that 2022 LOUD roster would clear the current LEV players at any point (except maybe saadhak i guess).
While it’s true that these same players are no longer in the same form they were back then, it doesn’t change the fact that aspas now has a weaker team around him, on multiple fronts: aim, game sense, and overall chemistry. If anything, the fact that he is still able to perform as his is now with these setbacks should be a testament to his ability.
WhoseTao [#18]I dont think the Lev guys would appreciate being told theyre deadweight so aspas has to prioritize himself, and I doubt aspas would ever say that either. Irrespective of it all, Lev are a super team who play at a high level, and if aspas still cant trust his teammates to frag and clutch, then I think it falls more on him than anything. Plus, I think the issue is more with how aspas heavy the team is, like oxy with c9, they focus a lot on making sure aspas is doing well and creating chances where he can excel, this leads to situations where they save for aspas, or have aspas save and not do a risky play just so he can keep a rifle next round.
that issue doesnt just appear out of nowhere, they clearly found more success in scrims by prioritizing aspas (which i think is the correct thing to do with this exact roster) because they dont have another player on that level to empower if aspas is dead
Rey55 [#15]NO. You are implying Aspas is a nothingburger without his former teammates. How is that praising him? tex, mazino and kingg are all capable fraggers. Mazino literally carried them in regular season, tex was going nuclear on fkin KJ winning every duel. wdym?
Aspas had really bad game once and then I open vlr and this guy has 15-13 scoreboard with a 1+ rating. Like do you realize, the way he plays he CAN NOT have bad ratings, irrespective of who his teammates are. This was the same at Loud too except less and pANcada were top 5 players back then but you can not have that at every team. And if you do then you don't have the claim to be the undisputed best player! I am sorry
dude, what he's saying is just that aspas had more support in Loud to make his path easier. now he seems much more overwhelmed because lev's playstyle is completely individualistic...
dort [#19]c0m is better than sacy by far. sacy hasnt had a good tournament since 2022
cap he has better stats than c0m on champs, he has more assists, he carried on groups, c0m this year had 2 good bo3´s and so did sacy, but the difference is sacy played out of his mind in the death group and they managed to beat fpx and gen.g with him going insane while c0m didnt really do much on a group with vit talon and trace, they the same and sacy is more valuable due to his agent pool tbh, only playing sova and fade works on this meta but at the start of the year c0m was solely the reason lev couldnt beat loud or sen
nella3 [#21]As much as I don’t root for either loud, lev, or any of the players on those teams in particular, I think that aspas was, while not playing as good as before, it was largely in part to having a poorer system to play around.
Player to player wise, all of the players from that 2022 LOUD roster would clear the current LEV players at any point (except maybe saadhak i guess).
While it’s true that these same players are no longer in the same form they were back then, it doesn’t change the fact that aspas now has a weaker team around him, on multiple fronts: aim, game sense, and overall chemistry. If anything, the fact that he is still able to perform as his is now with these setbacks should be a testament to his ability.
Exactly bro. For me, sacy is better than c0m both in aim and in game perception. Although saadhak is not as good mechanically, his intelligence makes up for it, which makes him one of the best igls, that is, loud 2022 clears current Lev
I_LOVE_LESS [#22]that issue doesnt just appear out of nowhere, they clearly found more success in scrims by prioritizing aspas (which i think is the correct thing to do with this exact roster) because they dont have another player on that level to empower if aspas is dead
Well I completely disagree, c0m was lifting his weight on EG, Kinggg has consistently been one of Americas best performers in terms of mechanics, Tex was by far the second best player on the team after aspas despite a role swap and mazino is the only one I dont rate as high. Prioritizing aspas seems like a bandaid fix to levs issues, but for championships you need more than a bandaid, and in my eyes you have to create a system where every player individually is supported and allowed to frag really well.
koromast [#26]cap he has better stats than c0m on champs, he has more assists, he carried on groups, c0m this year had 2 good bo3´s and so did sacy, but the difference is sacy played out of his mind in the death group and they managed to beat fpx and gen.g with him going insane while c0m didnt really do much on a group with vit talon and trace, they the same and sacy is more valuable due to his agent pool tbh, only playing sova and fade works on this meta but at the start of the year c0m was solely the reason lev couldnt beat loud or sen
Fraud stats from the first GenG game where he got a lot of exit frags.
novato1 [#27]Exactly bro. For me, sacy is better than c0m both in aim and in game perception. Although saadhak is not as good mechanically, his intelligence makes up for it, which makes him one of the best igls, that is, loud 2022 clears current Lev
nah that's gotta be the biggest copium i have ever seen. No way you think sacy has better aim than c0m lol. Sacy loses 80% of his favorable aim duels.
WhoseTao [#18]I dont think the Lev guys would appreciate being told theyre deadweight so aspas has to prioritize himself, and I doubt aspas would ever say that either. Irrespective of it all, Lev are a super team who play at a high level, and if aspas still cant trust his teammates to frag and clutch, then I think it falls more on him than anything. Plus, I think the issue is more with how aspas heavy the team is, like oxy with c9, they focus a lot on making sure aspas is doing well and creating chances where he can excel, this leads to situations where they save for aspas, or have aspas save and not do a risky play just so he can keep a rifle next round.
In fact, this strategy of having a "star player" is quite common to get the most out of him, like demon1 was in EG and KK was in EDG. Compared to the other teammates, aspas fits perfectly because of his consistency. Think about it, it's always good to have someone to trust in pressure situations, someone to solve things...
Rey55 [#30]nah that's gotta be the biggest copium i have ever seen. No way you think sacy has better aim than c0m lol. Sacy loses 80% of his favorable aim duels.
LOL thanks now I'm sure you don't watch Sacy's games man AND MUCH LESS c0m's games LOL
novato1 [#32]LOL thanks now I'm sure you don't watch Sacy's games man AND MUCH LESS c0m's games LOL
https://prnt.sc/T10apfD1jRfD This is your GOAT?
Rey55 [#33]https://prnt.sc/T10apfD1jRfD This is your GOAT?
LOL you had to put sacy's stats for a year and even so they are better than c0m's (even though sacy has more games than him), mainly in assists per round, showing that he provides better support than c0m. And worst of all is you trying to show that his stats are bad, when he doesn't even care about that, he himself said in an interview that he doesn't care about numbers, what really matters is winning... that's a champion's mentality and yes saty is my goat. one last question following your stats logic, aspas is your goat? lol
novato1 [#34]LOL you had to put sacy's stats for a year and even so they are better than c0m's (even though sacy has more games than him), mainly in assists per round, showing that he provides better support than c0m. And worst of all is you trying to show that his stats are bad, when he doesn't even care about that, he himself said in an interview that he doesn't care about numbers, what really matters is winning... that's a champion's mentality and yes saty is my goat. one last question following your stats logic, aspas is your goat? lol
Of course he doesn't care because he knows it's bad. Stats are not made up numbers. Stats are not everything but they paint a picture of real events. You are down to call Aspas the GOAT because he has the best stats but when it comes to sacy, stats don't matter? LMAOOO
Rey55 [#35]Of course he doesn't care because he knows it's bad. Stats are not made up numbers. Stats are not everything but they paint a picture of real events. You are down to call Aspas the GOAT because he has the best stats but when it comes to sacy, stats don't matter? LMAOOO
dude you didn't read anything i said. the real point of the discussion is that even in terms of numbers, sacy outperforms c0m. and i asked the question about aspas to demonstrate your contradiction... you put the numbers into play and even so, they are against what you said. you appealed to statistics, showing once again that you don't watch the games. you're just another troll who tries to distort what other people say to try to validate your argument lol
The discourse around Aspas being the goat is legit the weirdest thing in Esports history. The fact that the "Argument" (not really an argument, it's just angry Brazilian fanatics shoving "Aspas goat" down everybody's throat and then they bombard you with insults when you actually try to say anything remotely critical) even exist is a testament of how insane Aspas' pr team is. Somehow you got people calling someone the goat even tho that said someone has never performed as the best player in a SINGLE international event let along a whole year. Yeah he dropped 47 vs sentinels but at the end of the day it's regular season, nobody should look at a regular season match and actually make an argument about someone being the Goat off of it EVER.
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