Day 4 of posting a pavay in vlr (but as a video so you don't have to read)
Today we gonna ask the question : Is that a good thing APAC Tier T2 go to 16 team instead of 8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8qF2n8I8vmQ
tldr ; I have doubt, but I think I want to see that happen
Anguibok [#2]What I'm the most curious about is, that if T1 team will invest in academics, if thats the cas I'm not sure it was a good thing to give so many spots in premiers before T1 team have time to participate. (I wonder if I wouldn't even want Riot to give directly a spot to T1 that accept to have an aca)
Because Premier serves as a safe station for some of these players from academies. Either they go from premier to academy to main tram(upward trajectory) or premier to academy to tier 2 (solid talent with potential, not good at the moment)
laifu [#4]I don’t get why SA, Korea and JP get 16 teams
While SEA has 6 regions + Mongolia all competing for 16 spots
Jp invests a ton onto vct
Kr due to talent pool ( but anything else kinda sucks which irks me)
SA ( no idea, sorry SA fans)
SEA can't sustain themselves so they have to be merged
Conspiracy time : As for Mongolia, it's probably because for sp3 the views are predicted to fall with no exceptions, riot anticipated this and had to save region that makes them money the most, Jp , meanwhile I have no idea why not merge with Korea instead, SA is too far and that only left SEA.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#5]Jp invests a ton onto vct
Kr due to talent pool ( but anything else kinda sucks which irks me)
SA ( no idea, sorry SA fans)
SEA can't sustain themselves so they have to be mergedConspiracy time : As for Mongolia, it's probably because for sp3 the views are predicted to fall with no exceptions, riot anticipated this and had to save region that makes them money the most, Jp , meanwhile I have no idea why not merge with Korea instead, SA is too far and that only left SEA.
Quality of SA is bad but the regional valorant head is doing a lot he is always organizing offseasons + i think it will be 14 team, 3-4 pak/bangladesh teams + 10-11 indian
This year they have 4 offseason tourney there someone mentioned
Anguibok [#2]What I'm the most curious about is, that if T1 team will invest in academics, if thats the cas I'm not sure it was a good thing to give so many spots in premiers before T1 team have time to participate. (I wonder if I wouldn't even want Riot to give directly a spot to T1 that accept to have an aca)
I find T1 Academy teams playing in T2 to be a bit short sighted. The reason why Riot allowed this in the first place is two fold:
But this is not great in the long run because:
Tbf tho, I don't see T1 teams make academy teams now, and I don't see why they have to do it, unless they're trying to show riot that they are willing to commit to the scene like Zeta and DFM did I don't see why T1 teams should create academy teams.
This is just my opinion tho.
boomer123 [#6]Quality of SA is bad but the regional valorant head is doing a lot he is always organizing offseasons + i think it will be 14 team, 3-4 pak/bangladesh teams + 10-11 indian
This year they have 4 offseason tourney there someone mentioned
I see , as an attempt to market the scene I guess.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#7]I find T1 Academy teams playing in T2 to be a bit short sighted. The reason why Riot allowed this in the first place is two fold:
- The scene is unsustainable and no orgs are investing in T2 so T1 orgs are given the choice to join T2 in order to hold the scene in place.
- To gather more views due to the brand of T1 orgs ( I never see a bleed fan but ykwim)
But this is not great in the long run because:
- This is unfair for T2 orgs. Orgs are leaving because there's no point in investing in T2, adding academy teams solves nothing but making the problem worse, this is because T1 teams compete with a bigger resources than most teams
- This could discourages outside orgs to invests in T2. reasoning number 1
- This could potentially give T1 teams more leverage, unless there are much better candidates for 2027 partner reshuffle then this could lead to a situation where T1 orgs would just leave the scene entirely including T2 and in turn makes T2 unsustainable back again which is what riot intended (according to me ) to avoid in the first place.
Tbf tho, I don't see T1 teams make academy teams now, and I don't see why they have to do it, unless they're trying to show riot that they are willing to commit to the scene like Zeta and DFM did I don't see why T1 teams should create academy teams.
This is just my opinion tho.
Academies streamline talent pipe. Best example is team spirit in CS and Dota. They have scouts setup around the entire russian speaking scene, they pick out the best talent let them develop and then get rid of their previous players to evolve the team. Now their dota team has 4/5 players from the defacto academy and cs has 3/5. Problem is that it's a long term project and franchising just doesn't allow it
Nef0r0 [#11]Academies streamline talent pipe. Best example is team spirit in CS and Dota. They have scouts setup around the entire russian speaking scene, they pick out the best talent let them develop and then get rid of their previous players to evolve the team. Now their dota team has 4/5 players from the defacto academy and cs has 3/5. Problem is that it's a long term project and franchising just doesn't allow it
Why do you think franchising disencourages forming academy teams?
Nef0r0 [#3]Because Premier serves as a safe station for some of these players from academies. Either they go from premier to academy to main tram(upward trajectory) or premier to academy to tier 2 (solid talent with potential, not good at the moment)
Take Korea for exemple, DRX prospect didnt participate to this premier iteration probably because they werent allowed to qual to T2, so they missed half of opportunity to qual, if Riot would have announced it earlier, this would have been more fair for T1 aca teams :/
IonlywatchvcjXD [#7]I find T1 Academy teams playing in T2 to be a bit short sighted. The reason why Riot allowed this in the first place is two fold:
- The scene is unsustainable and no orgs are investing in T2 so T1 orgs are given the choice to join T2 in order to hold the scene in place.
- To gather more views due to the brand of T1 orgs ( I never see a bleed fan but ykwim)
But this is not great in the long run because:
- This is unfair for T2 orgs. Orgs are leaving because there's no point in investing in T2, adding academy teams solves nothing but making the problem worse, this is because T1 teams compete with a bigger resources than most teams
- This could discourages outside orgs to invests in T2. reasoning number 1
- This could potentially give T1 teams more leverage, unless there are much better candidates for 2027 partner reshuffle then this could lead to a situation where T1 orgs would just leave the scene entirely including T2 and in turn makes T2 unsustainable back again which is what riot intended (according to me ) to avoid in the first place.
Tbf tho, I don't see T1 teams make academy teams now, and I don't see why they have to do it, unless they're trying to show riot that they are willing to commit to the scene like Zeta and DFM did I don't see why T1 teams should create academy teams.
This is just my opinion tho.
"This is unfair for T2 orgs."
I disagree with that. that's true that a T1 org will have less money to win the T2 league, but the objective of a T2 team is to win ascention, and Academics team are not allowed to participate into ascension, so that mean academics team will not reduce the amount of chance for T2 team to win their primarly objective (They might even help them because they upgrade the scrim quality level). And if that argument is undermined, then the 2nd argument is undermine too (It might even be the contrary)
Having one good academics team leaving will not shake the entire T2 scene, this is kinda a too huge statement (And it's probable the team that will replace them will also have an aca team)
Scout is the best way to win long term, would be a bad plan to not invest in aca.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#5]Jp invests a ton onto vct
Kr due to talent pool ( but anything else kinda sucks which irks me)
SA ( no idea, sorry SA fans)
SEA can't sustain themselves so they have to be mergedConspiracy time : As for Mongolia, it's probably because for sp3 the views are predicted to fall with no exceptions, riot anticipated this and had to save region that makes them money the most, Jp , meanwhile I have no idea why not merge with Korea instead, SA is too far and that only left SEA.
For SA, the additional slots will be used to finally integrate Pakistan and rest of the region into the ecosystem.
Anguibok [#14]"This is unfair for T2 orgs."
I disagree with that. that's true that a T1 org will have less money to win the T2 league, but the objective of a T2 team is to win ascention, and Academics team are not allowed to participate into ascension, so that mean academics team will not reduce the amount of chance for T2 team to win their primarly objective (They might even help them because they upgrade the scrim quality level). And if that argument is undermined, then the 2nd argument is undermine too (It might even be the contrary)Having one good academics team leaving will not shake the entire T2 scene, this is kinda a too huge statement (And it's probable the team that will replace them will also have an aca team)
Scout is the best way to win long term, would be a bad plan to not invest in aca.
Welp I guess vcj teams really are visionaries , because a lot of them already invested in academy teams far before the announcement 😂.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#12]Why do you think franchising disencourages forming academy teams?
because the slot is for 4 years, correct? so it started in 2023, ends in 2027, academies picking up in 2025. Problem is, if you set up an academy and then get booted from franchising, what happens to the academy? does it get acquired as a package to the new org, or is it disbanded completely?
Nef0r0 [#18]because the slot is for 4 years, correct? so it started in 2023, ends in 2027, academies picking up in 2025. Problem is, if you set up an academy and then get booted from franchising, what happens to the academy? does it get acquired as a package to the new org, or is it disbanded completely?
DFM announced building an academy team not long ago, this is probably to show commitment towards the scene, at least this might give riot an impression that they are a great org to have as partner. ( but I don't really think this is enough ofc).
Usually if you're good enough you'll get acquired like how riddle acquired 2023 zeta academy core( caedye , aace , yatsuka).
It might be possible for the team to disband tho.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#19]DFM announced building an academy team not long ago, this is probably to show commitment towards the scene, at least this might give riot an impression that they are a great org to have as partner. ( but I don't really think this is enough ofc).
Usually if you're good enough you'll get acquired like how riddle acquired 2023 zeta academy core( caedye , aace , yatsuka).
It might be possible for the team to disband tho.
problem is that academies might create a situation where either you have a salary in the academy or you play for orgless teams. Basically you have like 10 academy slots per Japan, others are left out to dry.
IonlywatchvcjXD [#17]Welp I guess vcj teams really are visionaries , because a lot of them already invested in academy teams far before the announcement 😂.
It's so sad they couldn't participate into promotion XD, ZetacaA and ZetacaB got scammed making them think they couldn't participate to playoff
laifu [#4]I don’t get why SA, Korea and JP get 16 teams
While SEA has 6 regions + Mongolia all competing for 16 spots
SEA is now too saturated and something may have to be done, to me they are 2 solution, play on SG serv and take out HKTW and MN and put them in another place for ping reason (Japan ? China ?), if we count the number of team qualified + structure that hasnt been qualified we are at 23, remove MN-HK-TW we drop to 18, 16 might be doable in that case.
Other solution would be to split SEA in 2 based on server, and that would make sense to go in APAC full "1 serv" = "1 T3" = "1 T2". Se we would have SEA-HK (HK-TW-PH-VN-MN), SEA-SG (SG-MY-ID-TH) but 32 team might be a little bit too mush, not impossible but doable, counting qualified team, structured team and potential academics team SEA-SG is at 15, and SEA-HK is at 12, so this isnt totally unrealistic.
A mid solution would be to make 3 group of 24, East (HK-TW-PH-MN), Malay (SG-MY-ID-Brunei-Timur), MainlandSEA (TH-VN-Cambodia-Myanmar-Laos), but kinda break the 16 standardisation
If you want to make your own math :
MN The MongolZ
MN Trinity
HK Oblivion Force
TW Ex-ONE Team
TW Five Ace e-Sports
PH NAOS Esports
PH ZOL Esports
PH Oasis Gaming
PH TS Aca
VN Rapid Lofi
VN Fancy United
VN Team Flash
TH Made in Thailand
TH FULL SENSE
TH XERXIA
TH Sharper Esport
TH Team NKT
TH Talon Aca
SG Disguised
MY Reve Drift Arena
SG Elevate
SG PRX Aca
ID BOOM Esports
ID Alter Ego
ID Bigetron Arctic
ID ARF Team
ID RRQ Aca
cloudberry [#22]What's a pavay?
Pavement is made of « pavay » (Pavay is a bad way to try to traduce the french word « pavé » that we use to describe an horrible long text)
Anguibok [#24]Pavement is made of « pavay » (Pavay is a bad way to try to traduce the french word « pavé » that we use to describe an horrible long text)
Got it ty
Nef0r0 [#20]problem is that academies might create a situation where either you have a salary in the academy or you play for orgless teams. Basically you have like 10 academy slots per Japan, others are left out to dry.
Wait I'm lost ,can you explain this in another way 😅
IonlywatchvcjXD [#26]Wait I'm lost ,can you explain this in another way 😅
academy teams and tier 2 orgs compete for the same player pool
Anguibok [#21]It's so sad they couldn't participate into promotion XD, ZetacaA and ZetacaB got scammed making them think they couldn't participate to playoff
Frfr, Zeta AC A literally dominated premier only to lose BC swell and FAV ( or igzist I forgot )
Nef0r0 [#27]academy teams and tier 2 orgs compete for the same player pool
Ohhh that's what you mean, it actually happened occasionally , dvnc9 used to be in tier 2 went to Scarz Academy and is now a sub for Scarz.
Lefiedot and Kaua used to play for t2 org are now in ZETA academy A.
nihso [#16]Guys this an egirl fr*nch don't NOT click
Thanks "Number 1 Megannyah hater" you are allowed to rename into N1mh <3 Love you my tribe
IonlywatchvcjXD [#10]I did have quite some concerns about Jp tho:
- No one watches sp3 . Need I say more .
- Ever heard of Striderz? what about Delight? Me neither until I checked this premier 😂
- 16 teams might strain even VCJ's fianncials ( idk about this one tho).
What is sp3 ? Split 3 ? View are probably gonna be really low, thats true, but maybe not that mush, relegation will stay a stake, I find it too bad the winner doesnt have a couple of point for 2025 so we will have a little bit hype.
It was really dumb to expand thought premier without letting time for T1 team to fill an aca team, it would have make so mush more sense to qualify only 1 or 2 teams in this act, and 6-7 on the other so T1 aca can have more chance.
Also, if you are afraid about Japan not being able to fill 16 team, it would have solve so many issues to go to something like 10/12 JP team, and 2/3 MN and 2/3 HKTW teams
Anguibok [#31]What is sp3 ? Split 3 ? View are probably gonna be really low, thats true, but maybe not that mush, relegation will stay a stake, I find it too bad the winner doesnt have a couple of point for 2025 so we will have a little bit hype.
It was really dumb to expand thought premier without letting time for T1 team to fill an aca team, it would have make so mush more sense to qualify only 1 or 2 teams in this act, and 6-7 on the other so T1 aca can have more chance.
Also, if you are afraid about Japan not being able to fill 16 team, it would have solve so many issues to go to something like 10/12 JP team, and 2/3 MN and 2/3 HKTW teams
Well , I do think there is a hype around sp3, new players from t2 and academy can showcase what they fcan do this split.
I think it's because T1 Ac teams playing in t2 begins in 2025, so sp3 won't have academy teams yet.
I take back what I said about VCJ can't handle 16 teams, they can, and for 2025 sp1 everything should be put back in place when Reject and Northeption are back. our views really are above everyone else, it will work. Sp3 will be just a slight dip but shouldn't be that concerning as in we had to merge with other region 😅
IonlywatchvcjXD [#32]Well , I do think there is a hype around sp3, new players from t2 and academy can showcase what they fcan do this split.
I think it's because T1 Ac teams playing in t2 begins in 2025, so sp3 won't have academy teams yet.
I take back what I said about VCJ can't handle 16 teams, they can, and for 2025 sp1 everything should be put back in place when Reject and Northeption are back. our views really are above everyone else, it will work. Sp3 will be just a slight dip but shouldn't be that concerning as in we had to merge with other region 😅
Lets not forget about the "URRRGH it's make 2 mounth we had 0 proplay..." effect
Anguibok [#33]Lets not forget about the "URRRGH it's make 2 mounth we had 0 proplay..." effect
Ahh yes that too, thank you long off season 😂
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