G2 went from a mid NA team to a top 3 NA team with Icy
but Icy doesn't look good on the stat sheet.
So should they drop icy for another duelist???
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Should G2 Drop Icy
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Why is it always "drop icy because bad performance"???
G2 is not a performance based team. They do not rely on a superstar. They are arguably the most structured team in VCT and therefore can almost always play well even without a superstar. The problem is when said structure falls apart.
Take PRX vs G2. PRX has a team full of aimers. Outside of icy life game, I'd say most/all of PRX outaims most/all of G2 on a normal day. But because of said structure from G2, they still easily won.
But if you watch these current matches, teams are learning to not give G2 this structure. Force 1v1s and 2v2s, don't let them suffocate you with util and 2v1s.
It is a playstyle problem, not player.
doomvor [#4]Why is it always "drop icy because bad performance"???
G2 is not a performance based team. They do not rely on a superstar. They are arguably the most structured team in VCT and therefore can almost always play well even without a superstar. The problem is when said structure falls apart.
Take PRX vs G2. PRX has a team full of aimers. Outside of icy life game, I'd say most/all of PRX outaims most/all of G2 on a normal day. But because of said structure from G2, they still easily won.
But if you watch these current matches, teams are learning to not give G2 this structure. Force 1v1s and 2v2s, don't let them suffocate you with util and 2v1s.
It is a playstyle problem, not player.
that's why they are eliminated , understandable
Phanification [#3]g2 jsut had a bad game its ok relax. its ok to cry about ur betlogs
When in anywhere did I say Icy should get dropped?
I'm just asking questions...
doomvor [#4]Why is it always "drop icy because bad performance"???
G2 is not a performance based team. They do not rely on a superstar. They are arguably the most structured team in VCT and therefore can almost always play well even without a superstar. The problem is when said structure falls apart.
Take PRX vs G2. PRX has a team full of aimers. Outside of icy life game, I'd say most/all of PRX outaims most/all of G2 on a normal day. But because of said structure from G2, they still easily won.
But if you watch these current matches, teams are learning to not give G2 this structure. Force 1v1s and 2v2s, don't let them suffocate you with util and 2v1s.
It is a playstyle problem, not player.
OK what if G2 get's the "superstar"
then would they not win the forced 1v1s and 2v2s with a good player?
doomvor [#4]Why is it always "drop icy because bad performance"???
G2 is not a performance based team. They do not rely on a superstar. They are arguably the most structured team in VCT and therefore can almost always play well even without a superstar. The problem is when said structure falls apart.
Take PRX vs G2. PRX has a team full of aimers. Outside of icy life game, I'd say most/all of PRX outaims most/all of G2 on a normal day. But because of said structure from G2, they still easily won.
But if you watch these current matches, teams are learning to not give G2 this structure. Force 1v1s and 2v2s, don't let them suffocate you with util and 2v1s.
It is a playstyle problem, not player.
Ex. Derke C long vs Valyn and Trent C long Haven Game
Derke faced a 1v2 which is probably a very favorable for G2
Yet he killed both of them gaining FNC round 3...
Iquickscopei [#7]OK what if G2 get's the "superstar"
then would they not win the forced 1v1s and 2v2s with a good player?
The two problems with G2 acquiring a new player are always:
-
Would said player be able to understand and play to G2's structure?
-
Most "superstars" are duelists, but G2 is a heavily util based team. icy only played Raze and Yoru on duelist(edit: in champs). Both of them provide value outside of just getting kills. Boombot for info, nade for trap plays and denial. Yoru can flash for team and also allow for instant rotates. Jett/Reyna doesn't have this util.
doomvor [#10]The two problems with G2 acquiring a new player are always:
Would said player be able to understand and play to G2's structure?
Most "superstars" are duelists, but G2 is a heavily util based team. icy only played Raze and Yoru on duelist(edit: in champs). Both of them provide value outside of just getting kills. Boombot for info, nade for trap plays and denial. Yoru can flash for team and also allow for instant rotates. Jett/Reyna doesn't have this util.
- Good point
- Most Duelist can play Yoru + Raze and then I would just ban icebox for Gekko or let the duelist play jett/learn gekko
Iquickscopei [#11]
- Good point
- Most Duelist can play Yoru + Raze and then I would just ban icebox for Gekko or let the duelist play jett/learn gekko
Really? Who would you suggest?
The one very common name thrown around is Jawgewmo, but he has never played Yoru and he barely plays jett nowadays. I also don't think he has played gekko either.
G2's permaban has been sunset(not sure why, but okay), meaning banning icebox isn't great unless they learn sunset.
Iquickscopei [#8]Ex. Derke C long vs Valyn and Trent C long Haven Game
Derke faced a 1v2 which is probably a very favorable for G2
Yet he killed both of them gaining FNC round 3...
It happens, everyone decent can hit a 1v2 once in a while
doomvor [#12]Really? Who would you suggest?
The one very common name thrown around is Jawgewmo, but he has never played Yoru and he barely plays jett nowadays. I also don't think he has played gekko either.
G2's permaban has been sunset(not sure why, but okay), meaning banning icebox isn't great unless they learn sunset.
They perma ban sunset because KJ is dogshit on that map lol
catNmouse [#14]They perma ban sunset because KJ is dogshit on that map lol
shit I forgot, thanks
can Leaf not learn cypher???
Cypher is kinda just a more aggressive KJ(imo)
doomvor [#15]shit I forgot, thanks
can Leaf not learn cypher???
Cypher is kinda just a more aggressive KJ(imo)
The last time he’s played cypher was in shanghai vs his opening match vs T1. KJ is inferior to cypher on abyss imo as proven by LEV. He’s been playing non stop KJ and Viper since then. Seems like he’s not comfortable with cypher
catNmouse [#16]The last time he’s played cypher was in shanghai vs his opening match vs T1. KJ is inferior to cypher on abyss imo as proven by LEV. He’s been playing non stop KJ and Viper since then. Seems like he’s not comfortable with cypher
I agree, but how hard is it to learn cypher on one map? Just to be decent at him, not even anything amazing.
doomvor [#12]Really? Who would you suggest?
The one very common name thrown around is Jawgewmo, but he has never played Yoru and he barely plays jett nowadays. I also don't think he has played gekko either.
G2's permaban has been sunset(not sure why, but okay), meaning banning icebox isn't great unless they learn sunset.
I genuinely think Jawgemo would look like the best player in the world with support players as strong as G2. Give him props for the form he managed to show during Splits 1 & 2 despite being a one man show for the majority of rounds.
His record shows extensive flexibility and it wouldn’t take long for him to learn Gekko. Yoru is a slightly different story but Jawg also has experience with flashers and nothing icy has exhibited with the agent has been that complicated.
Their Permaban issue is straight up a Leaf flexibility concern. He needs to pick up Cypher and get good at it yesterday.
doomvor [#17]I agree, but how hard is it to learn cypher on one map? Just to be decent at him, not even anything amazing.
SUNSET is also a heavy retake and attack sided map and that’s where they excel at. So I honestly don’t know why either
Ultia [#18]I genuinely think Jawgemo would look like the best player in the world with support players as strong as G2. Give him props for the form he managed to show during Splits 1 & 2 despite being a one man show for the majority of rounds.
His record shows extensive flexibility and it wouldn’t take long for him to learn Gekko. Yoru is a slightly different story but Jawg also has experience with flashers and nothing icy has exhibited with the agent has been that complicated.
Their Permaban issue is straight up a Leaf flexibility concern. He needs to pick up Cypher and get good at it yesterday.
I genuinely think Jawgemo would look like the best player in the world with support players as strong as G2. Give him props for the form he managed to show during Splits 1 & 2 despite being a one man show for the majority of rounds.
That is all true, I heavily agree. Jawgemo would probably look really good with G2.
But it still doesn't answer point one, which we can't know.
Would Jawgemo be a good fit on G2, and be willing to play G2's style?
We don't know what goes on behind the scenes, which is why we can only guess.
We don't even know if Jawgemo is interested in playing for G2 or leaving EG(from what I know, sorry if this wrong)
Jawg also has experience with flashers
No? He has barely played Skye and Kayo and hasn't at all in the past 90 days.
Their Permaban issue is straight up a Leaf flexibility concern. He needs to pick up Cypher and get good at it yesterday.
Heavily agree.
catNmouse [#19]SUNSET is also a heavy retake and attack sided map and that’s where they excel at. So I honestly don’t know why either
¯_(ツ)_/¯
doomvor [#17]I agree, but how hard is it to learn cypher on one map? Just to be decent at him, not even anything amazing.
I think Cypher has more in common with his heavy space-taking type of lurks that are high-risk.
I'd rather see him drop 27 on Cypher and have 5 or 6 Cypher ults than they win 1-2 rounds off his 3 or 4 KJ Ults. Esp. since teams will play counter-comps.
They're a team that likes older comps because they're comfortable, and have always been kind of tough to adapt to the meta.
I think they definitely need a player who is willing to step up and make absolutely bat-shit-unreasonable type of plays and I don't think that's Icy, but at the same time I don't think Icy is the problem. It's also worth noting that they did put up a great fight against LEV, and LEV is an amazing team. Need more time to sit on it and see how they feel together as a team. They're on the up
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