Legacy arguments are pointless

Because everyone has some BS criteria they want to follow when rating trophies n players that suits their own agenda

Ex: Tenzlover69 will say that LOCK//IN is a fraud trophy because single elim, but will claim Tenz's 2021 trophy is worth the same as GenG's Shanghai trophy

Cneddickrider99 will say Champions is worth more than stupid Masters trophy so Cned > Ardiis, even though 2021 plumber era + single elim/Gambit no sleep champs drama

IMO the only objective way to weight trophies rn is:

Masters (22/23/24) = Champions (22/23/24) > Lock//in (single elim so worth less) > 2021 Berlin > 2021 Champs + the other Masters

Sacy n Chronicle are the goats, but Aspas easily best player OAT

Most dominant player ever is absolutely 2022 Yay, and 2021 Tenz doesn't count bc plumber era

Ok now whine about why Tenz is the "goat" in comments

Champs > masters

I just think champs is more meaningful than masters trophies.

teilwal [#2]

Champs > masters

difficulty wise: champs = masters
more prestigious: champs > masters

in order to win a masters you need to beat everyone and be the best in the world, just like in champs

champs > masters and why is 2021 champs below 2021 berlin

teilwal [#2]

Champs > masters

Why? LCQ teams almost NEVER make it out of group stages, which is the only thing Champs have that Masters doesn't, and after group stages it is the exact same for both tournaments

kanyefan4238173 [#5]

champs > masters and why is 2021 champs below 2021 berlin

Gambit was forced to play finals on like 2 hrs of sleep or something, schedule was completely messed up and favored teams on one side of the bracket heavily iirc

c4rrotstix [#6]

Why? LCQ teams almost NEVER make it out of group stages, which is the only thing Champs have that Masters doesn't, and after group stages it is the exact same for both tournaments

champs higher prize pool and means more. evil geniuses won more in prize money than fnatic in 2023 even though fnatic won 2 trophies to evil geniuses 1

c4rrotstix [#6]

Why? LCQ teams almost NEVER make it out of group stages, which is the only thing Champs have that Masters doesn't, and after group stages it is the exact same for both tournaments

would you still consider champs 24 the same as masters shanghai given that there’s no LCQ?

kanyefan4238173 [#8]

champs higher prize pool and means more. evil geniuses won more in prize money than fnatic in 2023 even though fnatic won 2 trophies to evil geniuses 1

When I rank trophy wins I rate them by difficulty, which is why I rated champs as = to masters

If you want to rate players by who made the most then 100% champs > masters

c4rrotstix [#6]

Why? LCQ teams almost NEVER make it out of group stages, which is the only thing Champs have that Masters doesn't, and after group stages it is the exact same for both tournaments

The champs lcq teams would be the equivalent of the teams that were one win away from making a masters at the time. So, teams like Kc last split or C9 for Reykjavik 22 would be the teams at the masters. We just don't get to see them do to a select number of spots.

catNmouse [#9]

would you still consider champs 24 the same as masters shanghai given that there’s no LCQ?

I think I'll probably rate it higher than both Masters this year, because it's now (supposed to be) the 4 BEST teams from the region, rather than the 3 Best teams + a team that was in form for 2 weeks

c4rrotstix [#10]

When I rank trophy wins I rate them by difficulty, which is why I rated champs as = to masters

If you want to rate players by who made the most then 100% champs > masters

i don’t think masters 23 should be up there with other internationals then. it was just a fnatic stomp (eg aswell) except for eg but even they they got 3-0’d in the finals, it was literally cakewalk for two of those teams

c4rrotstix [#10]

When I rank trophy wins I rate them by difficulty, which is why I rated champs as = to masters

If you want to rate players by who made the most then 100% champs > masters

yeah but regardless champs has to be above masters because people care about it more. theres probably more examples but FUT this year said they care about champs more than anything else.

you win twice as much money for winning champs so if teams had to choose between the two theyd rather do good in champs

primmie hommie

catNmouse [#13]

i don’t think masters 23 should be up there with other internationals then. it was just a fnatic stomp (eg aswell) except for eg but even they they got 3-0’d in the finals, it was literally cakewalk for two of those teams

Teams being miles above their competition is not their fault and I don't rank events lower bc of that

If a region sent their best teams then FNC and EG being cracked should not diminish their trophies

c4rrotstix [#6]

Why? LCQ teams almost NEVER make it out of group stages, which is the only thing Champs have that Masters doesn't, and after group stages it is the exact same for both tournaments

My argument would be that since it's deeper in the year more teams have had time to develop and that makes it more competitive. At least in 2022 and 2023 (idk about 2021 cause I didn't watch it) I would argue Champs was the most competitive tournament in that year so I view it as being more impressive to win

TooCaution_Heartless [#15]

primmie hommie

True primmie the goat primmie going to win champs 24 governor going to go from T2 na to best team itw just watch

Conceit [#17]

My argument would be that since it's deeper in the year more teams have had time to develop and that makes it more competitive. At least in 2022 and 2023 (idk about 2021 cause I didn't watch it) I would argue Champs was the most competitive tournament in that year so I view it as being more impressive to win

I was just thinking this. Every first Masters of the year is worse in quality than the prior Champs. This is another reason I think Champs > Masters

lock in > all

Manaphy [#19]

I was just thinking this. Every first Masters of the year is worse in quality than the prior Champs. This is another reason I think Champs > Masters

2022 first masters >>>> 2021 champs
2023 lock//in is worse than champs because franchised made many good team reset their whole rosters
2024 madrid is worse than champs 23 because of the top 4 teams at champs all 4 of them were completely different teams, or were not at the event because they weren't good enough

c4rrotstix [#21]

2022 first masters >>>> 2021 champs
2023 lock//in is worse than champs because franchised made many good team reset their whole rosters
2024 madrid is worse than champs 23 because of the top 4 teams at champs all 4 of them were completely different teams, or were not at the event because they weren't good enough

I disagree with Reykjavik 22 > Champs 21. No FPX FNC two subs is definitely taxing on its quality.

Manaphy [#22]

I disagree with Reykjavik 22 > Champs 21. No FPX FNC two subs is definitely taxing on its quality.

Single elim backet with horrible schedule for teams vs 1 team can't attend and another team has subs

c4rrotstix [#23]

Single elim backet with horrible schedule for teams vs 1 team can't attend and another team has subs

Those 2 teams were also the 2 best teams in EMEA and the one that couldn't attend was the winner of the next Masters.